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Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2011,20:07) give me the verse . a people in the OLD testament claiming he is a SON of GOD.
Deuteronomy 14:1
You are the children [Literally “sons”] of the LORD your God.Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2011,20:07) you like twisting words huh
I'm not the one twisting “Son OF God” into “God the Son”.
jammin, how many God Almighties do we have?
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2011,20:07) you and arius have the same belief.
I'm okay with that. Arius believed the scriptures when they said that Jesus was the Son of God, and that he was the beginning of the creation by God. I also believe those scriptures.The real question is: Why don't YOU?
i know you cant show me any translation saying the term equal in phil 2:6 as equally sprit being.. it's just your opinion hahahahaha:D
again you dont understance what you are saying
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2011,20:07)
give me the verse . a people in the OLD testament claiming he is a SON of GOD.Deuteronomy 14:1
mike: You are the children [Literally “sons”] of the LORD your God.do you know how they became children of GOD?? is it the same as christ?? read well my friend.
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2011,13:03) do not compare it to joseph bec he is a MAN! paul is not saying the term equal as a MAN! he says the FORM of GOD!
Philippians 2:6Amplified Bible (AMP)
6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [c]or retained,
did you see any verse saying MAN in phil 2:6
?you ask me, Is the Father a spirit being, jammin? YES or NO?
why are you asking me that question? you are the one who used that term in phil 2:6. so now im finding those words of yours in phil 2:6?? can you find any translation or not???
@ Jammin.Existing in the form of God does not equate that someone as God.
Just as existing in the form of man, doesn't make you Adam himself.
You do not seem to understand the difference between identity and nature.
@mike GOD is nature. your question is wrong. you should understand first the meaning of GOD.
@t8 christ is equal with GOD. cant you read the verse??
Philippians 2:6Amplified Bible (AMP)
6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [c]or retained,
do you agree that we have the same nature of MAN?
if you agree then we are equal. but of course you are t8 and im jammin. just like christ and the father. christ is the son of GOD and not the father. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,11:46) jammin, how many Gods Most High do we have?
you are asking me questions but you are not answering many of my pending questions. hahahahaha. read well my friendim not afraid to answer your questions. im just saying to you that your question is wrong.
GOD is nature. paul said that phil 2:6
example nature of man – we have the same nature of man.Hi Jammin.
God (Theos) is both the nature and an identity.
Similarly, Adam is both the nature as in mankind (adam) and the first man Adam.The word Theos is used as God and most of the time is talking of the Most High God. Usually the definite article or context tells us so. Sometimes theos is used to describe others such as the theos of this world which is not the Most High, and when Jesus quoted the Psalm that says “ye are theos/elohim”.
Devil is used in the same way. The Devil is identified as Satan, and devil can be any number of demons or even applied to a man like Judas Iscariot.
paul is saying about the nature. paul is not saying in verse 6 that christ is also the father. you cant read that. and that is what i am pointing here. they have the same nature. but christ is not the father.
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 20 2011,11:53) @t8 christ is equal with GOD. cant you read the verse??
Philippians 2:6Amplified Bible (AMP)
6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [c]or retained,
do you agree that we have the same nature of MAN?
if you agree then we are equal. but of course you are t8 and im jammin. just like christ and the father. christ is the son of GOD and not the father.
Yeah I pretty much have to agree with that.
But I am not sure to what you are using this for, so I may not agree with the application. But yeah, as your post stands, I think it is right.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,20:23) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 18 2011,13:30) Hebrews says that God spoke through the prophets in many ways. That leaves it wide open as to how or who He spoke through to the prophets.
Ah, but it doesn't leave any options as to WHO that God was.
The God who spoke to us through the prophets was the SAME God who spoke to us through His Son Jesus.I'm sure you can't see what you are doing from the inside. But from the outside looking in, it is obvious to us that you went immediately into “spin mode” to try and explain away the clear point of this scripture.
Spin away, sister. We have but ONE God, and He who spoke through the Son is He who spoke through the prophets of old.
No 'spin' Mike, read the verse and include the part about 'in many ways' so you can realize that God spoke to the prophets…in many ways just like the verse says. He spoke to the prophets through the angels, right? He also spoke to the prophets in dreams and visions, right? He also spoke to the prophets through the 'Word of God' which is the Son, right? See how many ways there are in that list, Mike? So, God spoke through the Son in the OT but didn't identify Him as the Son till the proper time…the NT. He identified Him as the 'Word of God.' God spoke through the 'Word of God' (the Son) to the prophets who then passed on that message to the people.I am not debating that the Father is God. The passage doesn't discount my belief in another person who is also God by nature, as the Son…not the Father. God the Father did many things through God the Son including speak to the prophets.
Anyway, from what I understand, this whole passage was brought up to discount that Jesus identified with “I AM.” The Father spoke through the Son to tell us about the Son in that passage.
Kathi
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2011,21:08) paul is saying about the nature. paul is not saying in verse 6 that christ is also the father. you cant read that. and that is what i am pointing here. they have the same nature. but christ is not the father.
Good word, jammin!Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,20:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 18 2011,13:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2011,22:53) Kathi, If Trinitarians believe Jesus is God Most High, then they believe that Jesus is the God he is the Son of.
No, trinitarians believe that God is made of more than one person, one of those persons is the Father and another of those persons is the Son.Kathi
Kathi,1. Do Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God Most High? YES or NO?
2. Do Trinitarians believe that Jesus is the Son of God Most High? YES or NO?
If the answer to both questions is “YES”, (which it is), then Trinitarians believe that Jesus IS the God he is the Son of.
Mike,Your questions are not clear enough for a yes or no answer.
Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is God, the most high Father. They believe that Jesus is God, the Most High Son.
Do you think the Father is the Most High Son? If not, who is the most high Son, in your opinion? Is there any son who is higher than Jesus?There is a most high Father and there is a most high Son.
With that understanding, they are both the most high in their own unique position.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 20 2011,01:42) So, God spoke through the Son in the OT but didn't identify Him as the Son till the proper time…the NT. He identified Him as the 'Word of God.' God spoke through the 'Word of God' (the Son) to the prophets who then passed on that message to the people.
Give that girl a gold star!ONE person, known as “God”, sometimes spoke THROUGH a DIFFERENT person, known as the “Word/Spokesman/Son” OF God.
But the “God” remains the same in both cases, Kathi. If it was God the Father who spoke through His Son in recent times, then it was also God the Father doing the speaking in the days of old. Because Hebrews 1 doesn't allow for different Gods. Instead, it tells us that THE God who spoke through Jesus was THE God who ALSO spoke through prophets in the past.
And I can go along with Jesus being the “word/angel/messenger” that God SOMETIMES spoke THROUGH.
Just as long as you realize that this eliminates Jesus from BEING the God who was doing the speaking THROUGH various messengers – only ONE of whom was Jesus.
Now you can read the OT with confidence, Kathi, knowing that any time it says “YHWH said this” or “YHWH said that”, it was God the Father doing the speaking, often THROUGH an agent such as Jesus.
Are we in agreement? If not, then why?
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 20 2011,01:53) Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is God, the most high Father. They believe that Jesus is God, the Most High Son.
How many Most High Gods do the Trinitarians believe we have, Kathi?Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2011,20:08) paul is saying about the nature. paul is not saying in verse 6 that christ is also the father. you cant read that. and that is what i am pointing here. they have the same nature.
The word “morphe” actually refers to the “outward appearance” of a person or thing.But even if you want to insist Jesus had the same “nature” as God, I can live with that. That would make Jesus have a “divine nature”, right?
And scripture says that some of us will also partake in divine nature. So if having “divine nature” doesn't mean WE will become God Almighty Himself, then why would having divine nature make you think JESUS is God Almighty Himself?
And don't forget, even using “nature” instead of “form”, Phil 2 STILL says that Jesus was existing in the nature OF God. Those words “OF God” distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the God he had the nature of.
Are you ready to answer my question yet?
jammin, how many Gods Most High do we have?
i answered your question already. your question is worng. that is my answer. what do you want to know the nature or person?
where is your verse about equally sprit being in phil 2:6?? what translation is that?do you understand why did GOD said ONLY SON in john 3:16
how do u understand the term only??? this is elementary stuff. you dont understand the sonship of christ.
you are not yet giving me a verse, person in the old testament claiming to be the son of GOD just like christ.many pending questions but you are not answering
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2011,18:26) mike that's not a bad translation. that's the truth. even the jews did not agree that christ is equal with GOD (just like your faith). they call it blasphemy. when christ say i and the father are one (jhn 10:30) , the jews took up stones to stone Him. you why they are to stone jesus?
that's why the jews said in verse 33
The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy and because thou, being a man, makest thyself God.”notice that the jews know that jesus was equating himself with GOD but jesus never told to the jews that you're worng! he said i am the SON of GOD. no people in the old testament claimed that he/she is the SON of GOD like jesus did. jesus is the only one saying that he is the SON of GOD. and for the jews, saying you are the SON if GOD means you are GOD!
now mike, i know you cant find your words in phil 2:6
you are just making conclusions listen to the song open the eyes of my heart LORD by hillsong.. it's a nice song.
JIMMQuote bec jesus said i am the SON of GOD! for the jews, if you claim that you are the SON of GOD means you are GOD! this is probably why they could not understand scriptures as well
to be true they still do not understand them ,they sure know a loth about it ,and that s about it ,because to say and believe that going from God to son you can be God is saying that GOd is the son and the son his the father ,this is insane to think this ,telling stories ,just for a luff
funnybut for PHIL:2;6
Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—I am sure you do not understand what Paul was saying .right ??
Pierre
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