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Christ said whosoever believed in me. The thief did not need to be a prophet to be resurrected into life. The great things of this world are not called to be of the first resurrection. It is plain and simple.
Hi TC,
You should not add your interpretations to what is written.
Jesus Christ is the resurrection and the life. If you have been reborn from above ,
of water and the Spirit, and walk in the Spirit, your future is secure.
Those in him already are seated with him prophetically in the heavenly realms( Eph 2.6)
They have passed over from death to life, and cannot suffer the real death, the second.
Hi TC,
Acts 10 is the exception when Spirit baptism preceded water as God judged them already clean.
But the Spirit in Peter showed both were necessary.
Hi TC,
You say’
When we are born again we receive a spirit mind’
If only this was true. The rebellious mind is a huge obstacle to the work of the Spirit. Reliant on religious training, logic and the human view it fights bitterly to resist any change. Change to be according to the Spirit is essential but rare.
Hi Nick.
You wrote:
Adam did die that day.
A day can be like a thousand years to God as Psalm 90 tells us and 2 Peter witnesses to.
Adam died age 930-less than 1000 years and none subsequently passed 1,000 years
.
No need to develop other metaphysical ideas to explain what is plain.
Me: I had written that a thousand years is like a day to the LORD in a previous post. I realize this. Most believe that the interpretation should be that A & E died that very day spiritually. That is plain. The 1,000 years are the view of a few. That is not so plain. But that doesn’t mean that it is not true.
I believe both are. I had thorough covered this on page 5, post: July 8, 2012 at 2:00 PM
You wrote:
You should not add your interpretations to what is written:
Me: I had shown you all the relevant scriptures and have just connected the dots. Ever think that maybe you are adding your interpretations.
You:
Jesus is the resurrection and the life. If you have been reborn from above.
Me:
Yes, ok Born again is one definition. Born from above is another. I believe that you are born again from above.
2 Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man (Rev 2:2-5: Christ is still considered a man, but now after the spirit) after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, (italic, so not in the original but added: he is ) a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are (to become) new.
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_corinthians/5-17.htm
Me: When we put on Christ, we put on the new man, the spirit man, not the man of flesh.
Luke 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. 38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Me:
A new mind and heart, body and spirit are the goals as we put on a new man from the inside out.
Hi Nick,
You:
Of water and the Spirit, and walk in the Spirit your future is secure,
Me:
True: but water symbolizes the holy spirit with Christ’s mind and heart in it.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 4 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with,
Me:
Let’s trace the steps here. Baptize means to submerge into Christ’s death (vs.3). This means we die to death with him because he became a sin offering (2 Cor 5:21). This is a second death. What was the first death? It was the death passed on to us in our bodies from the first Adam.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one…18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation…19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, (whereby) all have sinned.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Notice in vs. 4, “we are buried with him by baptism”. This is the reality. This is being baptized by the spirit or the baptism of the holy spirit. What symbolizes this burial is when we are submerged into water by water baptism.
So being born of water in John 3 cannot mean baptism, because baptism means dying to our bodies of sin. What does born of water mean?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Me: We know that flesh and blood cannot enter into the heaven. So being born of water cannot mean being born of our fleshly bodies which are mostly water. For born again of water and spirit both go together and is futuristic of our natural births. If we are buried with the human mind of Christ in the holy spirit, we also resurrect (born again from above) with his mind in the with the same holy spirit from the symbolic watery grave (Romans 6:5). This is the promise of the holy spirit. This is being born again from above. Thus the spirit mind that Adam and Eve lost is restored.
You wrote:
Those in him already are seated with him prophetically in the heavenly realms (Eph 2:6).
Matt 24:3 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Me:
If we endure to the end.
You
They have passed over from death to life, and cannot suffer the real death, the second.
Me:
Not true
Hebrew 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Nick wrote: When we are born again, we receive a spirit mind.
Me: I just showed you we are born of the heart and mind of Christ.
Nick
If only this is true. The rebellious mind is a huge obstacle to the work of the spirit. Reliance on religious training, logic, and the human view fights bitterly to resist any change. Change according to the spirit is essential but rare.
Me: It is true. The rebellious mind is not of the spirit but of the flesh. If we follow the spirit, we live. If we follow the flesh, we die.
Nick wrote:
Acts 10 is the exception as spirit baptism preceded water as God judged them already clean.
But the spirit in Peter showed both were necessary.
Me:
Both are necessary in the NT if possible, yes. Baptism in water is a commandment that symbolizes the reality, just as the last supper does. Baptism by water is not required in the OT because Christ was not born yet and had not died for our sins. These are saved by the baptism of the holy spirit.
Hi TC,
So you say.
But what you say is from theology and not the Word of God.
Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. All men need forgiveness as all have sinned(rom3).
Forgiveness is found in the waters of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as Peter said at Pentecost.
The book of Acts shows how necessary water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is. All who responded were baptised in water but not all immediately were given the Spirit as the Spirit can later come by prayer(Lk) Philip preached and baptised but did not lay on hands to give the Spirit. God’s Holy Spirit is not placed in whited sepulchres but clean vessels.
Hi TC,
You had read a day could be 1000 years but preferred the ideas of heathen theologians?
Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.
Hi Nick,
You Wrote:
So you say
But what you say is from theology and not the word of God
Me:
I do not subscribe to anyone’s theology. I have an open mind and do not believe I know it all and that others cannot contribute to my understanding. If I am wrong, I will change my views readily. You should be the say way, not being stuck in second gear.
You:
Unless you repent you shall all likewise perish, All men need forgiveness as all sinned (Rom 3).
Me:
True.
You:
Forgiveness is found in the waters of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as Peter said at Pentecost.
Me:
No, forgiveness is and has been from the inception of man (example: Luke 7:48). Repentance brings forgiveness of sins. Christ’s sacrifice brings cleansing of all sins retroactive) and freedom from the death brought on to man from Adam.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
- Repent: Turn from one’s wicket ways and receive forgiveness of sins.
- Water baptism: To call upon the name of Christ to save you. This is done by being baptized in his name.
- Spirit baptism: you actually die with Christ and are cleanest of your sins and the penalty of death.
- Your heart and mind are converted by your resurrection form the dead as you receive holy spirit with the human heart and mind of Christ in it. This is the promise of the holy spirit. This is being begotten (born) of the earnest of the holy spirit.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (Gk 728: a down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_corinthians/1-22.htm
Verse 22 implies we could extinguish the holy spirit if we turn our backs on God (1 Thes 5:19). We are born or begotten of the holy spirit at this point. We are not born again.
1 Peter 1:21 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Me:
This is at the first resurrection. For us Christians, born again means born of the holy spirit with Christ’s heart and soul in it, plus receiving new bodies.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (born ) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Me: Christ was the first born of the dead. We are born again at the first resurrection.
You:
The book of Acts show how necessary water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is. All who responded were baptized in water but not all immediately were given the Spirit as the Spirit can later come by prayer (LK). Philip preached and baptized but did not lay on hands to give the Spirit.
Me: In the NT, you should be baptized water if you know you should and in if at all possible, whether before or after you receive the holy spirit. Otherwise, you would be disobeying God.
You:
God’s Holy Spirit is not placed in whited sepulchers but clean vessels.
Me: True.
Hi TC,
Gal 3.27
For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
WATER
Gal 4.19
My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you-
SPIRIT -and the long painful sanctification and transformation process begins.
Hi Nick,
You had some question about my understanding of verse 18 below and the word baptism.
Me:
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Me: vs. 18…put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
Me: As a spirit being, he visited those in prison. So the prison could not be here on earth. Nor could it be in heaven, for that wouldn’t make sense. So it had to be in hades, the resting place of the souls that sleep in the heart of the earth.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free…Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin…If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
1 John 3:8 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Me: only those born of the promise of the holy spirit after Christ’s ascension into heaven, and their spirits themselves after their death have ascended, will not ever sin again. For the saints sin even now when they follow the flesh.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed (after Chris’s ascension into heaven) all judgment unto the Son: … Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour (time) is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me (until the end of their lives) shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: The souls of the prophets and saints that had died would soon be risen from the dead after the Messiah’s ascension into heaven.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and proclaimed (G4151) unto the spirits in prison.
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_peter/3-19.htm
Me:
What kind of prison were the saints in? It was the prison of sin and death. It was the prison that the Messiah freed them from.
I believe that the baptism in 1 Peter 3:18is the baptism by the spirit of God with the heart and mind of Christ in it.
Hi Nick
You wrote:
Gal 3:27
For all who have baptized into Christ have clothed themselves with Christ.
WATER
Me:
The prophets of old were never baptized with water, but they were baptized with the holy spirit after Christ’s ascension into heaven.
Most saints in the NT have been baptized with water, all have been baptized with the holy spirit.
You wrote:
Gal 4:19
My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you.
SPIRIT- and the long painful sanctification and transformation process begins.
Me:
True: We grow and are sanctified in the spirit after we are born of the spirit.
Those in the OT had only the promise of Christ in the holy spirit as if it were.
Romans 4:17… even Elohim…calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Animal sacrifices were the order of the day.
Those in the NT has the promise of the spirit fulfilled in real time.
Hi TC,
The prophets were already alive in the anointing Spirit before their death.1peter.1.11
They did need to be anointed again.
The Spirit abides.
Hi TC,
‘If you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.’Rom 8
The Spirit is what the church is built on and defined by and so is essential to all.
Hi TC,
A prison of sin and death?
Tell us more of this prison that existed at the time of Noah.
Hades and the bosom of Abraham as shown by Jesus sounds appropriate.
Jesus could not be held by Hades and the church was given the keys to this prison too.
Hi Nick:
You wrote:
The prophets were already alive in the anointing spirit before their deaths. 1 Peter 1:11
They need to be anointed again?
The spirit abides.
Me:
1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ (holy spirit) which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
I had written page 3, July 4 @ 1:03 AM, the total response in which an insert response is listed below.
What was the spirit inside of Christ and the prophets? It was the holy spirit (1 Peter 1:12). It wasn’t Christ’s spirit inside of the prophets, but the holy spirit. It wasn’t Christ’s spirit that was directing the words inside of him, but again the holy spirit.
Complementary response: The prophets had the same holy spirit in them that was in Christ. The difference was that they did not have the human heart and mind of Christ inside of the holy spirit that was in them at that time. Only later, after the man Christ had ascended and was gloried in heaven, could they be baptized in their dead state in that same holy spirit with Christ in it and rise from the dead and ascend to heaven spiritually.
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