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Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 09 2009,08:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2009,07:27) Hi Jodi,
It would be better to submit yourself to the sacred words and let scripture teach you.
Nick why don't you share with us just exactly what your major malfunction is.I just said people on this forum drive me deeper into the scriptures.
I just said I go by what the SCRIPTURES TELL ME
I just said that it is up to every individual to put forth an honest and hardworking effort to find the truth laid out in scripture.
Personally I believe this sort of harassment should get you kicked off this forum.
If you don't have anything of substance to add to this thread, which clearly you have proven that you don't, then PLEASE be kind enough to leave.
YOUR a DISGRACE to this forum.
Hi Jodi,I will first tell you thet Nick is extremely valuable and so are you.
I have given you the sciptures but you have not chosen to respond to the scriptures I have given you.
I will tell you tha it is inappropriate to Judge whatever you feel about nick because you are being emotional instead of spiritual.
Nick is a blessing to this forum and you should not decorate yourself as if you have studied moreso than he because you have not otherwise you would have anticipated my moves.
God bless you but please be humble and not judge saints that are active for the love of God almighty who is THE ONE AND ONLY JUDGE!
Nick………..So you cant give any explanation, that disagrees with what Jodi Posts so you again set out to discredit Her as you have me and others here. It is amazing to me that no one here seems to see how you abuses of your position here. When ever you cant give any decent explanation you post some lame descriptive answer to cover you ignorance and change the context of the subject being discussed. An old, but ignorant trick, which only demonstrates your lack of true knowledge, you should truly be ashamed. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ May 09 2009,18:18) Nick………..So you cant give any explanation, that disagrees with what Jodi Posts so you again set out to discredit Her as you have me and others here. It is amazing to me that no one here seems to see how you abuses of your position here. When ever you cant give any decent explanation you post some lame descriptive answer to cover you ignorance and change the context of the subject being discussed. An old, but ignorant trick, which only demonstrates your lack of true knowledge, you should truly be ashamed. IMO gene
I will definitely say that nick is not bein abusive because if he were we wouldn' t be able to voice our opinions.He doesn't have to agree with everyhing that is said.
Bodhitharta………No one is saying he has to agree with any thing we say, but to make a statement like “would you teacher the teacher and reverse His word”, and saying “you must be greater the Him”, Because he can't comprehend what being said, is far beyond a proper response to any one here and this arrogance is to the point of being sickening and is evasive and non subject related. He can post his response to what is posted Just like the rest of Us do, without being sarcastic and condescending. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Nick…………They don't come across as questions Nick but as a put down , Can't you use reason and not make a person feel bad about what they have posted . Jodi has put a lot of time and thought into what she has posted and Her reasonings are sound and are not against Scripture IMO. If you have a contrary understand then post it and give you points and scriptures, to back them up. Thats all she ask you for, We are suppose to love one another and kindly treat each other even if we disagree. IMO
peace and love…………………..gene
G,
Your reliance on reason is the problem.
Can you just use scripture?Should you not know better by now than to bring along your own treasured ideas?
TRUE BELIEF and TRUST are founded on PROOF, and proof is established when it makes sense in the individual's mind.
If you believe in something that does not make sense to you, your a FOOL.
To say that “reason is a problem, can't you just use scripture” makes absolutely no sense to me or my husband.
Use scripture for what?
Nick think about what you are saying
You cannot just USE scripture… the word USE means that your DOING SOMETHING WITH IT.
What are you doing when you USE scripture? Your processing it in your brain and determine in your mind what it means, in other words your using the mechanisms in the brain that YHWH gave you to make sense out of it.
Did YHWH create man in his own image so he could merely puppet His words? Our Almighty Creator gave us the wonderful ability to COMPREHEND His word, without comprehension we are not individual spirits, but pathetic robots.
Man cannot LIVE BY YHWH's words unless he can comprehend them, meaning, unless he understands them, and man cannot understand what does not make sense to him….it has to have reason in his mind.
Take reason from the man you take away the man….you are left with a puppet…you create the definition of a fool.
Some words from the thesauras for reason…..intelligence, brains, intellect, wisdom, common sense, logic, good judgment.
These then are all things that Nick believes we should not use when reading scripture, for he says that we should not rely on reason, therefore we should not rely on our brains or wisdom when reading scripture.
Nick would you like to explain yourself a little more thoroughly?
Psalms 119:65 Good Thou didst with Thy servant, O Jehovah, According to Thy word. 66 The goodness of reason and knowledge teach me, For in Thy commands I have believed.
Ec 7:25 I have turned round, also my heart, to know and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and reason, and to know the wrong of folly, and of foolishness the madness.
Nick in all honesty your a hypocrite….we see you using your reasoning skills all the time..
You said this to Gene,
“God is the potter and not all pots are for use.”
That's NOT scripture buddy, that's YOUR REASONING of it!!
So let me get this strait… Nick can use his reasoning but we cannot?
As moderator of this forum you are making things pretty creepy around here….you seem to be a brainwashing CULT leader, where according to you we are not suppose to think for ourselves and use our brain.
To RELY is to depend or trust. To trust is to have confidence.
We are to rely on, to trust in and have confidence in God and His word. To be able to do this we must have the ability to comprehend who God is and what He stands for. Reasoning is the mechanism that God gave us to be able to rely upon him. We have to rely upon our reasoning.. our ability to have good judgment and understanding.
In other words…reliance on reasoning and reliance on God go HAND IN HAND. You must have the one to have the other and you must have the other to have the one!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2009,19:27) G,
Your reliance on reason is the problem.
Can you just use scripture?Should you not know better by now than to bring along your own treasured ideas?
Nick…………NO your lack of using your GOD Given brain is the problem here. Well maybe your mind has not been enlightened enough to understand the truth expressed here and so it really is not you fault, you only can deal with what you have been given, and if you believe you really don't have to use your mind to perceive the truth of GOD, O Well we cant ask of you what you have not been given can we? Unto whom littles is given little is required right? As for me i will use (all) my GOD given mind to understand His words and apply them in my life as He directs my heart to. IMOpeace and love………………..gene
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2009,18:18) Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 09 2009,08:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2009,07:27) Hi Jodi,
It would be better to submit yourself to the sacred words and let scripture teach you.
Nick why don't you share with us just exactly what your major malfunction is.I just said people on this forum drive me deeper into the scriptures.
I just said I go by what the SCRIPTURES TELL ME
I just said that it is up to every individual to put forth an honest and hardworking effort to find the truth laid out in scripture.
Personally I believe this sort of harassment should get you kicked off this forum.
If you don't have anything of substance to add to this thread, which clearly you have proven that you don't, then PLEASE be kind enough to leave.
YOUR a DISGRACE to this forum.
Hi Jodi,I will first tell you thet Nick is extremely valuable and so are you.
I have given you the sciptures but you have not chosen to respond to the scriptures I have given you.
I will tell you tha it is inappropriate to Judge whatever you feel about nick because you are being emotional instead of spiritual.
Nick is a blessing to this forum and you should not decorate yourself as if you have studied moreso than he because you have not otherwise you would have anticipated my moves.
God bless you but please be humble and not judge saints that are active for the love of God almighty who is THE ONE AND ONLY JUDGE!
If you could please view over this thread maybe a little more thoroughly I think you'd see that I did in fact respond to everyone of your posts. I believe they were over Ephesians 6, Luke 8 and Matthew 12.So you see Nick as a saint? I find that rather interesting giving his behavior on this thread.
Can you show me where I have decorated myself to have studied the bible more so then Nick? And how exactly does that have anything to do with anticipating your moves? Just what moves are you referring to?
I don't believe that I have necessarily studied the word more then Nick, after all he is I believe quite a few years older then I am. I will say that on this particular topic, according to the way Nick has conducted himself, refusing to give scripture and explain his position and understanding, that it would be apparent that I understand more then he does.
Are you saying I should have no feelings towards Nick and I should just keep my mouth shut when he accuses me falsely?
Are you not judging me when you say that I am being emotional instead of spiritual? Sounds like you need to follow your own advice brother!
Without emotion I'd rather be dead.
Getting back to the topic of Beelzebub and his demons and whether or not they are real or fake, what do the scriptures say…
2 Kings 1 identifies Beelzebub as the god of the Philistines
1 Moab rebelled against Israel after the death of Ahab. 2 Now Ahaziah fell through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria, and was injured; so he sent messengers and said to them, “Go, inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury.” 3 But the angel of the Lord said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say to them, 'Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?'
Beelzebub therefore we see is a false god, and what does scripture say about false gods and their demons?
Da 5:23 Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven. You had the goblets from his temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand. But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways.
Re 9:20 and the rest of men, who were not killed in these plagues, neither did reform from the works of their hands, that they may not bow before the demons, and idols, those of gold, and those of silver, and those of brass, and those of stone, and those of wood, that are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk,
The Pharisees identified the INFLICTING evil spirits or demons as coming from a false god.What does scripture say regarding where supernatural powers of infliction comes?
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Proper text here of Lord is YHWH and He Exists with POWERS, there is NO other.
IMO it seems that Christians have conveniently narrowed the mind when it comes to defining what believing in a false god means, that it is strictly about praising and honoring another god.
Why do we see in the Old Testament YHWH with Powers getting so frustrated with false worship? Is it STRICTLY because He only wants to be the person to be admired and praised? No, it is because the people have given God's sacred powers over to other beings.
According to the four scriptures above the problem has everything to do with believing that someone else has God's Powers.
What is a god? Why is a god worshiped in the first place? Because it is praised for the blessings and feared for the cursing. It is feared and honored for its supposed powers.
There are no other gods because there are no other supernatural beings that exist outside the Power's of YHWH.
With all do respect according to the bible to be a fasle worshiper is to believe that another being exists with supernatural powers.
We know that God's messengers exist with powers, but those powers come from God, they come from His Holy Spirit. They are the beings that bring forth God's powers of infliction onto man.
Christians don't honor and praise Satan, but they do indeed fear him and his demons, and they do indeed believe that he holds supernatural powers of cursing and infliction. Therefore this does indeed according to Old Testament definition, make them into idol worshipers.The identity of the greatest adversary unto man has been completely distorted, it has been turned into not one but thousands upon thousands of false gods.
So therefore, what does scripture show is man's greatest adversary?
Jer 16:12 And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me.
Pr 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, But a good man will be satisfied from above.
Matthew 7:21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
The flesh draws man to lust
2Pe 1:4which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust
Our satan or adversary is shown to be time and time again to be in man, part of his nature. Our nature makes us lust and serve our flesh.
God tests our hearts and minds when He inflicts our flesh. God inflicts our flesh as a form of instruction and discipline. We see man is indeed weak, for often times when faced with trials man grows more wicked.
The Israelites in the wilderness had their flesh tested, they were without food and water….it didn't take long for them to curse God. Their desire or lust for food and water because of their flesh's need for it caused them to forsake God in their hearts.
In Deuteronomy we see the declaration from God to Israel that if they obey they will receive blessing, if they do not, then cursing. God foretells that when He sends cursing and infliction onto man that man will indeed grow even more wicked as a result.
Unless a man has grown into strong righteous character having faith and understanding in God, and possessing self discipline and self control, he is nothing but a weak creature that will buckle under infliction to the flesh, bringing forth iniquity.
Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
When we look throughout history and the rise of one tribe of people over another, or one nation over another, people have been controlled by their needs and desires to serve their flesh. Bring famine and a tribe will move with desperation, willing to conqueror others to fulfill their needs. Who brought the famine?…God.
God has control over the earth over it's weather, diseases, and natural resources and He can maneuver people according to the weakness of their flesh.
Deuteronomy 28:49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
It does not take some invisible rebel spirit to cause man to do evil things, such as eating your own young (something we see occur ALL the time with animals in nature)….it occurs when God inflicts the carnally minded man.
The dragon in Revelation, I have heard it been said that the Kings of which represent the dragon are under the maneuvering of a great rebel angel. The scriptures tell me otherwise, that God does the maneuvering of Kings, that He is in control, He determines their reign and their boundaries. The scriptures also tell me that their wickedness has been according to the weakness of their flesh and their carnal nature which draws them to serve their desires.
Man's desire to feed his flesh, coupled with his own imagination, creates the perfect recipe for the invention of evil ways.
Quote (Gene @ May 11 2009,06:13) Jodi…………Amen sis. you have nailed it. imo peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Thanks so much Gene for your encouragement. Much of what I have said, you know I have pretty much said before, however I feel it's necessary, so I will continue with what I believe to be an important fight against man's traditions and deceptions. You keep up the great work also bro!!Blessings and love, Jodi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2009,07:28) Hi Jodi,
Why do you prefer the narrow Hebrew view of Scripture to what Jesus has taught?
That's kinda a funny comment, since I have been showing how the Hebrew thought has been in error. Hebrew thought is just like any other man's able to distort truth. The Pharisees, who we know were Hebrews believed in a false god and that gods demons.Nick would you care to give me a specific example of where it is you find I follow the narrow Hebrew view over Jesus?
You need to back up your accusations with examples dude!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2009,07:12) Hi Jodi,
Did you not know God allows Satan to test men?.
Yes, God has allowed for man's carnal nature to draw him into instruction. Our carnal nature teaches us that we are empty worthless creatures without God's Spirit, that no good can come from man alone.As far as God allowing some spirit rebel to inflict man with cursing, IMO that's absurd, we see quite plainly from scripture that His loyal messengers are responsible for that. God has a plan of which He is carrying out, He does not need the use of evil untrustworthy rebels to do a job that Him and His Powers can do.
Man, it says, is “tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.”
God does not need your false god to carry out work He can do Himself, and God does not need to allow this false rebel spirit to tempt man, when man is perfectly capable of doing that himself.
IMO Nick your doctrine is empty and worthless!!
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