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Martian,
I do not agree with your definition of faith as it sounds like you are inadvertently “putting the cart before the horse. The making of decisions that are Christ like is the fruit of one’s faith. That is one reason you must be led by God in coming to Jesus in the first place as it is God who creates a soul in us that hungers and thirst for righteousness. That desire will compel one to accept the true message of the Anointed. It is true that if there is no fruit then there is no real faith.
Gene,
You are correct that there are more than one Jesus taught among the students of Christ today as the spirit of the Anti Christ is among us. Jesus said this would be so and that it would test us. He also told us not to chase after them, Matthew 24.
I cannot say anything beyond that except to watch out that their evil choice does not cause you to be bitter but instead trust that God has everything under control and justice will prevail in the end.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2010,03:44) Martian, I do not agree with your definition of faith as it sounds like you are inadvertently “putting the cart before the horse. The making of decisions that are Christ like is the fruit of one’s faith. That is one reason you must be led by God in coming to Jesus in the first place as it is God who creates a soul in us that hungers and thirst for righteousness. That desire will compel one to accept the true message of the Anointed. It is true that if there is no fruit then there is no real faith.
The key is cooperation with God. Doing so will place us square in the plan of God for us. That plan will require that we make decisions to cooperate with God as Jesus did and based on the same criteria as Christ had. Otherwise our decisions will vary from Christ and we will be following along another path that he did not travel.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2010,03:44) Martian, I do not agree with your definition of faith as it sounds like you are inadvertently “putting the cart before the horse. The making of decisions that are Christ like is the fruit of one’s faith. That is one reason you must be led by God in coming to Jesus in the first place as it is God who creates a soul in us that hungers and thirst for righteousness. That desire will compel one to accept the true message of the Anointed. It is true that if there is no fruit then there is no real faith.
Just reread this post. It is not my definition of “faith.” It is from “The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon” produced by Dr. Jeff Benner.We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives. The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”. God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.
Love in Christ,
MartQuote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2010,16:44) We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives. The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”. God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends. Love in Christ,
Mart
You say-
We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives.REply-
So how do you determine what God's word is eally saying. Do you just trust that your English translation is correct in all aspects?You say-
The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”.Reply-
Since God os invisible what is it that they see in christ and us?You say-
God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.reply-
Does God die for his fellow man? What exactly do you mean?Martain,
I am skeptical of Dr. Brenner's translations as they do not fit the context of scripture in at least some cases. They are often close but not quite correct. That closeness can be deceptive.
His definition is basically a translation since he is merely putting an English word to the Greek or Hebrew meaning of the word.
Quote (martian @ Sep. 24 2010,04:40) You say-
God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.reply-
Does God die for his fellow man? What exactly do you mean?
“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends”. John 15:13Jesus also got angry, and it says,
“To some you must be compassionate because they are wavering; others you must save by snatching them from the fire; to others again you must be compassionate but wary, hating even the tunic stained by their bodies”…Jude
Hi Martian:
Quote You say-
We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives.REply-
So how do you determine what God's word is eally saying. Do you just trust that your English translation is correct in all aspects?Is not “love” the same in any language? Jesus said that he came not to do away with God's eternal law which is the “Ten Comandments” but to fulfill the law. We, as born again believers also fulfill the law as we learn to apply the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus.
When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment in the law, he answered that the law was fulfilled throught the following commandments, “Thou shall love the Lord they God with all of your heart, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, and love thy neighbor as thy self”.
The first four of the Ten Commandments relate to specifically to God, and the remainder relate to our relationship with humanity.A good summary of the Word of God that we apply in our daily lives can be found in Matthew Ch. 5-7, and Matthew 25 where Jesus states “for I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me drink, naked and you clothed me, sick and in prison dnd you visited me…”
It does not take understanding Hebrew or Hebrew culture to understand this, does it?
Quote You say-
The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”.Reply-
Since God os invisible what is it that they see in christ and us?Jesus said that we have seen the Father through the works that he did in obedience to God. He said that it was the Father doing the works through him, and so, when we are obeyng the commandments that have come from God to us through him, humanity should see God through the works that we do in obedience to His Word. “They will know that we are Christians by our love”.
Quote You say-
God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.reply-
Does God die for his fellow man? What exactly do you mean?God did not literally die for man. God is eternal. But yes, he did taste death for all of mankind in the person of Jesus Christ. By this I mean that Jesus was obeying God in every aspect of his life and in his death, and so, we have seen God's character through Jesus life of obedience to Him. They are two different souls. God did not become a man, but he agonized in all the punishment that man rendered upon his Son.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2010,12:02) Hi Martian: Quote You say-
We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives.REply-
So how do you determine what God's word is eally saying. Do you just trust that your English translation is correct in all aspects?Is not “love” the same in any language? Jesus said that he came not to do away with God's eternal law which is the “Ten Comandments” but to fulfill the law. We, as born again believers also fulfill the law as we learn to apply the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus.
When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment in the law, he answered that the law was fulfilled throught the following commandments, “Thou shall love the Lord they God with all of your heart, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, and love thy neighbor as thy self”.
The first four of the Ten Commandments relate to specifically to God, and the remainder relate to our relationship with humanity.A good summary of the Word of God that we apply in our daily lives can be found in Matthew Ch. 5-7, and Matthew 25 where Jesus states “for I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me drink, naked and you clothed me, sick and in prison dnd you visited me…”
It does not take understanding Hebrew or Hebrew culture to understand this, does it?
Quote You say-
The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”.Reply-
Since God os invisible what is it that they see in christ and us?Jesus said that we have seen the Father through the works that he did in obedience to God. He said that it was the Father doing the works through him, and so, when we are obeyng the commandments that have come from God to us through him, humanity should see God through the works that we do in obedience to His Word. “They will know that we are Christians by our love”.
Quote You say-
God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.reply-
Does God die for his fellow man? What exactly do you mean?God did not literally die for man. God is eternal. But yes, he did taste death for all of mankind in the person of Jesus Christ. By this I mean that Jesus was obeying God in every aspect of his life and in his death, and so, we have seen God's character through Jesus life of obedience to Him. They are two different souls. God did not become a man, but he agonized in all the punishment that man rendered upon his Son.
Love in Christ,
Marty
How do we acquire this love you speak of? Is it not a product of a Christ-like character? How do we acquire that character?It is one thing to say we should love one another but the question remains how do we do that? There are many that try to fake that kind of love. How do we really have the real thing? Sure we can all give to the poor and feed the hungry but what are our motives behind these actions. Those motives must be the same as Christ' or they are as filthy rags.
martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO
peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:44) martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
My point on tis thread Gene is that it is not enough to act like Christ. We must actually have the asme motives as Christ. We must have the same character in us that was in christ. That character is the character of God himself. To develop that character in us we must go through the same perfecting process as Christ. That means having the same makeup and understandings by which we make decisions.
To what degree you give Christ a difference to that same degree we are denied becoming like him.
We needed a perfect example of what it means to have the complete character of God possible in a human being so that we could follow the example.Quote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,10:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:44) martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
My point on tis thread Gene is that it is not enough to act like Christ. We must actually have the asme motives as Christ. We must have the same character in us that was in christ. That character is the character of God himself. To develop that character in us we must go through the same perfecting process as Christ. That means having the same makeup and understandings by which we make decisions.
To what degree you give Christ a difference to that same degree we are denied becoming like him.
We needed a perfect example of what it means to have the complete character of God possible in a human being so that we could follow the example.
Martianyou got this all wrong, God does not serve you ,he gives there is a difference.
Christ served his father until dead, that's the attitude we should all have.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 25 2010,04:28) Quote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,10:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:44) martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
My point on tis thread Gene is that it is not enough to act like Christ. We must actually have the asme motives as Christ. We must have the same character in us that was in christ. That character is the character of God himself. To develop that character in us we must go through the same perfecting process as Christ. That means having the same makeup and understandings by which we make decisions.
To what degree you give Christ a difference to that same degree we are denied becoming like him.
We needed a perfect example of what it means to have the complete character of God possible in a human being so that we could follow the example.
Martianyou got this all wrong, God does not serve you ,he gives there is a difference.
Christ served his father until dead, that's the attitude we should all have.
Pierre
And what drives our attitudes? Do we just decide one fine day to have the attitude of Christ? Is it not a series of decisions that we make along the way that develops our character to be like Christ? If so, on what basis do we make those decisions?Quote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,04:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:44) martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
My point on tis thread Gene is that it is not enough to act like Christ. We must actually have the asme motives as Christ. We must have the same character in us that was in christ. That character is the character of God himself. To develop that character in us we must go through the same perfecting process as Christ. That means having the same makeup and understandings by which we make decisions.
To what degree you give Christ a difference to that same degree we are denied becoming like him.
We needed a perfect example of what it means to have the complete character of God possible in a human being so that we could follow the example.
Martian, the only way to achieve this is to submit to God's will and not our own.And I agree with Gene, (well put Gene) once you have Gods's love you feel it when you pray, you also feel sorrow for things that you see, and wish to help.
Also as what you said, there are many who don't have the true love, Jesus said that in the last days false teachers and prophets will arise and decieve and love will grow cold. (Have you ever debated with an eternal hell believer)
Quote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,02:15) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2010,12:02) Hi Martian: Quote You say-
We become like Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily lives.REply-
So how do you determine what God's word is eally saying. Do you just trust that your English translation is correct in all aspects?Is not “love” the same in any language? Jesus said that he came not to do away with God's eternal law which is the “Ten Comandments” but to fulfill the law. We, as born again believers also fulfill the law as we learn to apply the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus.
When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment in the law, he answered that the law was fulfilled throught the following commandments, “Thou shall love the Lord they God with all of your heart, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, and love thy neighbor as thy self”.
The first four of the Ten Commandments relate to specifically to God, and the remainder relate to our relationship with humanity.A good summary of the Word of God that we apply in our daily lives can be found in Matthew Ch. 5-7, and Matthew 25 where Jesus states “for I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me drink, naked and you clothed me, sick and in prison dnd you visited me…”
It does not take understanding Hebrew or Hebrew culture to understand this, does it?
Quote You say-
The goal is that we, like he, can say “he who has seen me, has seen the Father”.Reply-
Since God os invisible what is it that they see in christ and us?Jesus said that we have seen the Father through the works that he did in obedience to God. He said that it was the Father doing the works through him, and so, when we are obeyng the commandments that have come from God to us through him, humanity should see God through the works that we do in obedience to His Word. “They will know that we are Christians by our love”.
Quote You say-
God is love, and greater love has no man than than he should lay down his life for his friends.reply-
Does God die for his fellow man? What exactly do you mean?God did not literally die for man. God is eternal. But yes, he did taste death for all of mankind in the person of Jesus Christ. By this I mean that Jesus was obeying God in every aspect of his life and in his death, and so, we have seen God's character through Jesus life of obedience to Him. They are two different souls. God did not become a man, but he agonized in all the punishment that man rendered upon his Son.
Love in Christ,
Marty
How do we acquire this love you speak of? Is it not a product of a Christ-like character? How do we acquire that character?It is one thing to say we should love one another but the question remains how do we do that? There are many that try to fake that kind of love. How do we really have the real thing? Sure we can all give to the poor and feed the hungry but what are our motives behind these actions. Those motives must be the same as Christ' or they are as filthy rags.
Hi Martian:Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter or see the kingdom of God.
I said we become like Christ as we learn to apply His Word in our daily lives.
And so, what I was saying applies to someone who has received the Holy Ghost. God is the Father of their Spirit.
The motive is to glorify God through the life that live so that all with whom we come in contact will see that God is a reality and that they might want to be reconciled to God through His provision.
In the body Christ the commission from Our Lord is for his disciples should go into all the world and share the gospel with every creature.
For God so loved the world that he gave his Only Begotten Son that whosovever believes in him should not perish but have everlasing life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn he world, but that the world might be save through him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,14:42) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 25 2010,04:28) Quote (martian @ Sep. 25 2010,10:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:44) martian………..I believe we need to ask for that love of GOD to be in us, I have noticed when i pray and ask GOD to give me his Love and help me to see things like He does , it works, and i began to look at things differently with a more sorrowful Heart and (FEEL SORROW) for others and see their sufferings more and more clearly when i Ask God. “FOR YOU ARE SORROWED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS” and again “GODLY SORROW WORKS REPENTANCE NOT TOE BE REPENTED OF”. And again “FOR GOD PITIES US EVEN AS A FATHER PITIES HIS CHILDREN. If the love of God is shed around in our hearts we will take pity on others and be merciful to them even as GOD has taken pity on us been merciful to us. We will forgive them who have trespassed against us even as God has forgiven us. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………gene
My point on tis thread Gene is that it is not enough to act like Christ. We must actually have the asme motives as Christ. We must have the same character in us that was in christ. That character is the character of God himself. To develop that character in us we must go through the same perfecting process as Christ. That means having the same makeup and understandings by which we make decisions.
To what degree you give Christ a difference to that same degree we are denied becoming like him.
We needed a perfect example of what it means to have the complete character of God possible in a human being so that we could follow the example.
Martianyou got this all wrong, God does not serve you ,he gives there is a difference.
Christ served his father until dead, that's the attitude we should all have.
Pierre
And what drives our attitudes? Do we just decide one fine day to have the attitude of Christ? Is it not a series of decisions that we make along the way that develops our character to be like Christ? If so, on what basis do we make those decisions?
Martianit is like you love a women so much that if she ask you to do anything and you would do it,so it is the love you have for the women that make you acted in that way,
the same way it is for God and Christ it is LOVE,love for truth,love for righteousness,love for live,love for true justice,love for your fellow men ,just love according to God trough Christ that has shown it to us .
Pierre
Marty and Terrarica thats true, and we change the more we trust God, we start to rely on him, to turn to him, ask, shelter, cry to, and the closer you become the more you see that God is love, and everything changes, often it happens slowly, but you also fear doing wrong, and you learn as time goes by that doing wrong takes you away from that, so you know and trust to always want to try to do what's right,
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