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Quote (Samuel @ Mar. 31 2008,02:08) Stu… Your so very entertaining. I love it. Thank you for your wonderful conversation.
Hi Samual,
I agree stuart is so loverableQuote (Cato @ April 05 2008,01:44) Quote (Samuel @ April 04 2008,16:16) See…man can't understand the fact that there is a creator… Because then they would want to know who created the creator?
And…so on and so forth.
At some point though you have to be honest with your self …there is an Almighty Creator.
Samuel,I think man can understand that there is a Creator, evidently the majority of the world's population believe this also.
The problems lie in describing this Creator, his methods and purpose. I think this is by definition impossible as any being capable of a feat like creating the universe would need to be outside of such creation and thus not subject to any of the laws of same, and so would have to be undefined. We may infer things from his creation but only indirectly. So while I can agree on the Almighty creator I find those attempting to describe or define him in any but the most nebulous fashion, mistaken or delusional, especially attempts to make him an anthropomorphic, limited, negatively emotional entity as described in the OT.
Of course there is the thinnest fence between what you write here and what I believe. Your god is a mathematical concept, an asymptote, the infinity we can see coming but never attain. This is the same infinity that is not beyond our mathematics but is beyond our comprehension.If you can't comprehend god, how can you even imagine what he really 'wants'?
Stuart
The reason your “Mathematics” even works is because GOD made it. Anything you come in contact with in your natural born life is a product of GODS direct handy work.
Quote (Samuel @ April 06 2008,06:40) The reason your “Mathematics” even works is because GOD made it. Anything you come in contact with in your natural born life is a product of GODS direct handy work.
So why, with all this fantastically logical system of mathematics, and the way the universe follows precisely the laws of physics, is the creator wrong and inconsistent about so many things in his autobiography? Were the ghost writers incompetent?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2008,22:31) Hi Stu,
It is written.
It is written poorly, and is wrong.Stuart
Stu.
People are different and have strengths and weakness in different areas.
Obviously God has allowed imperfection in the gene pool of humanity.
Even physical death is part of the curse that he pronounced in the beginning.
In case you weren't aware, God introduced curses into the world and in humanity because of sin.
The scriptures say sin causes death and their are other consequences on the way to death.Think about the Web. It is made up of code that is interpretted through different processes. Of course everything could work well, but we have to contend with viruses and other purposefully written code that is designed to cause harm in some way. When God cursed humanity because of his sin, he had to do some extra coding or he allowed for this extra coding. The point here is that the amount of work to create a perfect creation and then to introduce curses is actually extra work from that of a perfect creation alone. It is not incompetence, but done on purpose. These things are now designed to test us, and it seems we all get the short end of the stick in some way which helps keep humans humble to a degree.
The good news is that you can have eternal life. God purchased all of us through the sacrifice of his son.
He paid the penalty of sin, which was death. Now we can all live, but God resepcts our free will too because he never intended us to be a race of robots who just obey and say that they love God because they were programed to do so, or they have no other choice.You need to choose him on his terms, or ultimately reject him. So far you are obviously rejecting him. God's grace is there for us, but when we die, we can no longer change anything we have done while we were on life's stage. The book will have been written at that point, and then comes the judgement by which all the books are opened and all is exposed for all to see.
If you ever change your mind about God and your life, let me know.
t8
Quote People are different and have strengths and weakness in different areas.
Obviously God has allowed imperfection in the gene pool of humanity.
He saw that it was ‘good’. What caused the sudden nasty turn into spitefulness?Quote Even physical death is part of the curse that he pronounced in the beginning.
In case you weren't aware, God introduced curses into the world and in humanity because of sin.
The scriptures say sin causes death and their are other consequences on the way to death.
I am happy not to worship a small-minded god obsessed with cursing things. Including fig trees.Quote Think about the Web. It is made up of code that is interpretted through different processes. Of course everything could work well, but we have to contend with viruses and other purposefully written code that is designed to cause harm in some way. When God cursed humanity because of his sin, he had to do some extra coding or he allowed for this extra coding. The point here is that the amount of work to create a perfect creation and then to introduce curses is actually extra work from that of a perfect creation alone. It is not incompetence, but done on purpose. These things are now designed to test us, and it seems we all get the short end of the stick in some way which helps keep humans humble to a degree.
This is one of the most hilarious things you have ever written here. You are almost applying principles of natural selection to your god’s thinking process, which of course you are in no way party to. You have no clue at all whether your god is just sadistic and vindictive, yet you spin a complicated tale of a master criminal god.Quote The good news is that you can have eternal life. God purchased all of us through the sacrifice of his son.
I don’t believe in slavery.Quote He paid the penalty of sin, which was death. Now we can all live, but God resepcts our free will too because he never intended us to be a race of robots who just obey and say that they love God because they were programed to do so, or they have no other choice.
So when you say ‘he respects us’, what happened to the angry god that didn’t mind that the gene pool was filling with mutations that would cause the most unpleasant diseases, striking people at random with no justice to be discerned? This is one confused god myth.Quote You need to choose him on his terms, or ultimately reject him.
I have already rejected christian mythology as a poor model of reality. You know that!Quote So far you are obviously rejecting him. God's grace is there for us,
His intestinal larvae and streptococcal infections are there for us too.Quote but when we die, we can no longer change anything we have done while we were on life's stage. The book will have been written at that point, and then comes the judgement by which all the books are opened and all is exposed for all to see.
Have you died and observed all this?Quote If you ever change your mind about God and your life, let me know.
I am changing my mind all the time. I used to think of christianity as quaint. Now I can see how wrong I was. It is a nasty belief, premised on the death of a human, with the meanest view of human nature and the pure ‘evil’ of telling people that their ailments are caused by their ‘sin’, or someone else’s. Those christians who call themselves such because their senses of justice are soothed by christian platitudes clearly cannot see how genuinely unjust it is.Stuart
Quote I am changing my mind all the time. I used to think of christianity as quaint. Now I can see how wrong I was. It is a nasty belief, premised on the death of a human, with the meanest view of human nature and the pure ‘evil’ of telling people that their ailments are caused by their ‘sin’, or someone else’s. Those christians who call themselves such because their senses of justice are soothed by christian platitudes clearly cannot see how genuinely unjust it is. OK, so Christianity is evil now?
Why are you here then, shouldn't you walk away in disgust?
Hey Stu.
You say have I observed all this. Well can I ask you a question, have you repented of your sin and prayed to the living God for forgiveness of your sins. Have you received his Spirit? If not, then how do you know that this is not the truth? How do you know anything if you don't try it. How do you know what figs taste like if you have never eaten one?
Quote (Stu @ April 08 2009,18:43) He saw that it was ‘good’. What caused the sudden nasty turn into spitefulness?
The soul that sins must die. It is a law.Ezekiel 18:4
For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.If Adam parachuted out of a plane the law of gravity would have had it's way. Is that spiteful?
If a man steals from another person, even our law demands justice and a price is paid.
Are you proposing that there should be no laws because they are nasty?
They are only nasty if you put yourself at the wrong end of one of them. If you stood in front of a speeding car, given the laws of nature, you know there are going to be consequences.
God created the Law and our conscience speaks of us knowing the law. Conscience = con (with) science (knowledge). We are programmed to know right from wrong and how to survive, breathe etc.
Laws are good, because they keep order. Have you heard the term law and order. These two words go hand in hand.
Quote (Stu @ April 08 2009,18:43) I am happy not to worship a small-minded god obsessed with cursing things. Including fig trees.
Yet here you are like all men, you are dying. If he is that small, then lets see you not die. If this small God can speak things and they happen, then how small must you be if you are subject to his words and commands?Quote (Stu @ April 08 2009,18:43) This is one of the most hilarious things you have ever written here. You are almost applying principles of natural selection to your god’s thinking process, which of course you are in no way party to. You have no clue at all whether your god is just sadistic and vindictive, yet you spin a complicated tale of a master criminal god. Actually I would say that what is happening is that you are unable to actually understand what I am saying by reason of your bias. That is why it seems foolish to you. It is written that even the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man. The world has always persecuted and ridiculed those who thought outside the box and don't follow the status quo. Some great scientists have even been persecuted in like manner.
Here is what I think Stu. Forget about faith and revelation, when it even comes to logic, you prefer to stick your head in the sand and sit their with your butt in the air and your fingers in your ears.
You admit that the three options for where everything came from are ludicrous or impossible, yet one of them is the case and you cannot decide which one. Even knowing this, you ridicule one of the options even though it is even more logical than the other two and matches everything we see observed in things that we also make, of which the other 2 options do not. Unfortunately for you, that means you are stuck on deciding which of the last two preposterous possibilities are the answer. Can you see the humour in this? I can.
Your religion is either Nothing created everything or everything has always existed in some form and this form is not living. These are your options because you have thrown away the possibility that there is a creator/designer.
Then you say God is small minded, have you thought about the possibility that it is you who has the small mind?
My opinion Stu is that your science, conclusions, and accusations are seriously dumbed down by reason of your own bias and narrow minded thinking. I actually think you are capable of much better, but attitudes do affect our behaviour and character and attitudes can turn a potentially great person into a failure.
But I do find talking with you to be interesting in that I can observe first hand how the mind of a man who doesn't believe in a creator actually works and what sways him to say what he says. I know one thing, it has little to do with logic or truth and more to do with bias and misunderstanding. You are living proof of this observation for when it comes to answering a simple question about which option of three is the answer, you stick your head in the sand and continue ranting on like a mad man saying there is no God even though you have no alternative hypothesis.
You cannot even see the logical similarity that everything we make is created and designed and yet for some reason this doesn't count with the bigger things which have even greater design. Worse, you haven't even given one iota of an explanation as to why your belief is true. You just rant. And when you do get all scientific, you talk about diabetes, and things that don't even touch the subject of a creator being the cause of all things.
There you have it Stu. A bit more of a one liner for you today.
t8
Quote OK, so Christianity is evil now? Why are you here then, shouldn't you walk away in disgust?
Perhaps I hold out some futile hope of saving you from your own salvation.Quote You say have I observed all this. Well can I ask you a question, have you repented of your sin and prayed to the living God for forgiveness of your sins.
Which ‘sins’ exactly would you be accusing me of? Be conscious of the libel laws, won’t you.Quote Have you received his Spirit? If not, then how do you know that this is not the truth? How do you know anything if you don't try it. How do you know what figs taste like if you have never eaten one?
How do you know that you have really ‘received his spirit’? It could have been an illusion, it fact that is the most likely scenario.Quote The soul that sins must die. It is a law.
OK. Bad luck you.Quote If Adam parachuted out of a plane the law of gravity would have had it's way. Is that spiteful?
Not in my world, but it is in your christian fantasyland, because all actions of natural laws potentially have intent behind them.Quote If a man steals from another person, even our law demands justice and a price is paid. Are you proposing that there should be no laws because they are nasty?
What has the law got to do with this? What does that have to do with christianity? In this country laws are no longer decided by churchgoers. Christians are now in the minority.Quote They are only nasty if you put yourself at the wrong end of one of them. If you stood in front of a speeding car, given the laws of nature, you know there are going to be consequences. God created the Law and our conscience speaks of us knowing the law. Conscience = con (with) science (knowledge). We are programmed to know right from wrong and how to survive, breathe etc.
Your claim, which you give without evidence, is something that I dismiss with no evidence needed.Quote Laws are good, because they keep order. Have you heard the term law and order. These two words go hand in hand.
Have you not heard of bad laws?Quote Actually I would say that what is happening is that you are unable to actually understand what I am saying by reason of your bias. That is why it seems foolish to you.
No it seems foolish to me because all my experience of the world, gained with genuine curiosity and open interpretation, tells me that it is absurd to claim that people can walk after death, or walk on water, or raise others from the dead, or cure chronic illness by the placing on of hands. It is not just my experience but the experience of everyone on the planet that these things are absurd to claim. There are just a large number of people who allow credulity to overtake their natural skepticism. From studying cults and other related groups we know exactly how this can happen.Quote It is written that even the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.
I always thought ‘he’ was just a maniacal genocidist, but you say ‘he’ is foolish. Interesting.Quote The world has always persecuted and ridiculed those who thought outside the box and don't follow the status quo. Some great scientists have even been persecuted in like manner.
And more often than not those scientists and other thinkers were challenging religious hegemony when the persecution took place.Quote Here is what I think Stu. Forget about faith and revelation, when it even comes to logic, you prefer to stick your head in the sand and sit their with your butt in the air and your fingers in your ears.
No. I am open to the possiblity that you are right. I have high standards for believing, but they are breachable with the right evidence. If your god is as you claim, the evidence should be overwhelming and clear. Yet you have provided no reason to believe any of it.Quote You admit that the three options for where everything came from are ludicrous or impossible, yet one of them is the case and you cannot decide which one.
No, I do not recognise your strawman of my position on that. You seem unable to articulate what I think.Quote
Then you say God is small minded, have you thought about the possibility that it is you who has the small mind?
Sure. But I don’t hate figs.Quote My opinion Stu is that your science, conclusions, and accusations are seriously dumbed down by reason of your own bias and narrow minded thinking.
OK. My opinion is that your statement applies to you.Quote I actually think you are capable of much better, but attitudes do affect our behaviour and character and attitudes can turn a potentially great person into a failure.
Well you are judging me (careful!) on the basis of discussions about christianity. Obviously we are limited by the
facile nature of the subject matter.Quote But I do find talking with you to be interesting in that I can observe first hand how the mind of a man who doesn't believe in a creator actually works and what sways him to say what he says.
The strawmen you make of what I think lead me to suggest to you that you do not understand my thinking at all.Quote You cannot even see the logical similarity that everything we make is created and designed
It is entirely illogical to say that. You have provided neither evidence nor reason, you simply assert that there must be a creator. I assert there does not have to be one. Then there is the evidence that tells us how the complexity of life arose by small increments, and the evidence of how the solar system formed which is in direct conflict with scripture, providing as it does no evidence whatever for its cosmological myth.Quote and yet for some reason this doesn't count with the bigger things which have even greater design. Worse, you haven't even given one iota of an explanation as to why your belief is true. You just rant. And when you do get all scientific, you talk about diabetes, and things that don't even touch the subject of a creator being the cause of all things.
OK. Here is Monty Python for you:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooaGhYFHIzg
Stuart
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. What an idiot. “We've got lots of videoclips of people listening”!
The only 'theory' he can articulate is a rambling religious fairytale lie. And the only channel he can get his lame lies onto is TBN.
What an embarrassment to our accent. At least he lives in the US where they don't discriminate on the grounds of delusion.
Stuart
I like the part about leaving the water trying to breathe, and then going back, and eventually gills became lungs.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I am glad you guys see how silly that is.
Thanks for the vid KJ, will look at it when I get back. Going to buy a mocha.
Oh it isn't a vid. Just a picture and a statement. Wow, I can't debate that. You win.
Ha ha ha ha.
Nice one. Very witty.
Quote (t8 @ April 11 2009,12:09) I like the part about leaving the water trying to breathe, and then going back, and eventually gills became lungs. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I am glad you guys see how silly that is.
Thanks for the vid KJ, will look at it when I get back. Going to buy a mocha.
Hi t8That was pretty good. The part about finding the opposite sex that just happened to develop at the same time was pretty good too.
WJ
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