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Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 28 2013,19:50) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 28 2013,18:54) Wakeup, By Word do you mean the words that come out of God's mouth and those that are equivalent.
Kerwin.The Word is one;Jeus is one,speaking many Words of God.
The Word itself is one living being speaking many Words of God.He appeared to Abraham as an angel.
He also appeared to Abraham as the king of salem(peace),
by the name of Melchisedec.Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation **King of righteousness**, and after that also **King of Salem**, which is, **King of peace**;
Hebrews 7:3 **Without father, without mother**, **without descent**, **having neither beginning of days, nor end of life**; **but made like unto the Son of God**; abideth a priest continually.
GOD HAS ONLY ONE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
wakeup.
Wakeup,There are two issues in your post I am going address.
1)
Quote The Word is one;Jeus is one,speaking many Words of God. If I understand you correctly you are claim God's spoken word speaks God's spoken word. Does your statement, which has not parallel in Scripture, make sense to you or am I misunderstanding you?
2)
Quote He appeared to Abraham as an angel. Quote God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, .. Hebrews 1:1-2 Other means that the Son were used to speak to the fathers before these last days. The Son did not speak to them though in these last days he does speak.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,04:30) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 28 2013,19:50) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 28 2013,18:54) Wakeup, By Word do you mean the words that come out of God's mouth and those that are equivalent.
Kerwin.The Word is one;Jeus is one,speaking many Words of God.
The Word itself is one living being speaking many Words of God.He appeared to Abraham as an angel.
He also appeared to Abraham as the king of salem(peace),
by the name of Melchisedec.Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation **King of righteousness**, and after that also **King of Salem**, which is, **King of peace**;
Hebrews 7:3 **Without father, without mother**, **without descent**, **having neither beginning of days, nor end of life**; **but made like unto the Son of God**; abideth a priest continually.
GOD HAS ONLY ONE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
wakeup.
Wakeup,There are two issues in your post I am going address.
1)
Quote The Word is one;Jeus is one,speaking many Words of God. If I understand you correctly you are claim God's spoken word speaks God's spoken word. Does your statement, which has not parallel in Scripture, make sense to you or am I misunderstanding you?
2)
Quote He appeared to Abraham as an angel. Quote God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, .. Hebrews 1:1-2 Other means that the Son were used to speak to the fathers before these last days. The Son did not speak to them though in these last days he does speak.
Kerwin.God does everything by His Word.(everything).
All things are made by *Him* and for him.
He created the earth,the garden,Adam and Eve,and the serpent.He spoke and said; let there be light.
He spoke to Adam and Eve,and to the serpent.He also spoke to Abraham; He also is the *FIRST* KING OF SALEM,AND OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
AND HE WAS CALLED MELCHISEDEC.
JESUS IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST.THE *WORD ITSELF* SPEAKING MANY WORDS TO MANKIND
FIRST TO THE PROPHETS.THEN HE CAME AND SPEAKS
TO MANKIND.*HE* IS THE WORD ITSELF.*HE* WENT BACK TO HEAVEN,BUT LEFT US HIS SPOKEN WORDS,FOR US TO DIGEST.ITS CALLED **THE HOLY BIBLE**
wakeup.
Just found this today in my daily reading:
Job 5:17 NET
Therefore, blessed is the man whom God corrects, so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. 67NETNote #67 says:
The name Shaddai occurs 31 times in the book. This is its first occurrence. It is often rendered “Almighty” because of the LXX and some of the early fathers. The etymology and meaning of the word otherwise remains uncertain, in spite of attempts to connect it to “mountains” or “breasts.”Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 29 2013,21:46) Just found this today in my daily reading: Job 5:17 NET
Therefore, blessed is the man whom God corrects, so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. 67NETNote #67 says:
The name Shaddai occurs 31 times in the book. This is its first occurrence. It is often rendered “Almighty” because of the LXX and some of the early fathers. The etymology and meaning of the word otherwise remains uncertain, in spite of attempts to connect it to “mountains” or “breasts.”
Mike,The uncertainty may have been intentional but the words “God Almighty” does not preserve the broader range of possible but true meanings that uncertainty causes.
In short it probably means God the nurturer and destroyer. It may even have something to do with related ideas such as God's might. It is linked to breasts as Shaddia was used in relation to a goddess of fertility according to Wikipedia. It seems to reference her breasts(mounds) so mountain could be tied in there as well but I see no real evidence besides that possible relationship. It is also possible it covers the idea God is the source of fertility but that would infer that God is also the source of destruction. I am not sure how to condense those ideas into one English word.
I disagree with the reason given by the Jewish Talmud, which is also possibly the reason it was translated Almighty in the Septuagint, and that is that it means that God is the God that said stop to his creation before it was finished.
El is a name of God that also means god. Jehovah is a second name whose meaning is either or both he is the creator or/and He is eternal. Possibly another intentionally vague word. This is mentioned in the same source.
Note: My source for
Yeah Kerwin,
But read HOW those scholars link it to “breasts” and “mountains”. They are all just guesses by men. (See the NETNote information I posted earlier in this thread. )
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2013,02:46) Just found this today in my daily reading: Job 5:17 NET
Therefore, blessed is the man whom God corrects, so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. 67NETNote #67 says:
The name Shaddai occurs 31 times in the book. This is its first occurrence. It is often rendered “Almighty” because of the LXX and some of the early fathers. The etymology and meaning of the word otherwise remains uncertain, in spite of attempts to connect it to “mountains” or “breasts.”
Hi MikeWhere does shaddai connect to mountains and breasts?
Read my earlier post in this thread, journey. Look for the one with all the green print – and then read that green print.
Oh, and remember that none of this “breast” and “mountain” talk is PROVEN. It is men making educated guesses based on information we currently have.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2013,03:54) Yeah Kerwin, But read HOW those scholars link it to “breasts” and “mountains”. They are all just guesses by men. (See the NETNote information I posted earlier in this thread. )
Mike,shad means breast. The mountain reference goes through the Akkadian language but since a breast and a mountain are both mounds and both have the shad root makes it seem reasonable there may be something to the argument. the weakness is that both “shaddā`û or shaddû`” use double d's. The Hebrew language uses a completely different word for mountain.
Note: I used the Wikipedia source for the basic ideas and Biblestudytools to look up the meaning of words.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,11:07) Wakeup, You are contradicting Scripture as the Son did not speak to humans until these last days.
Kerwin.This is where you are wrong.
The Word of God have always spoken: in the garden and to the prophets.
In His days He as a man; He spoke.
They could see him, and feel him,and ate with Him.
In revelation; he also spoke.
He is the only *Word of God*.wakeup.
Mike,
Neither one are really new as breast also means nurturer and I suspect there is a link between mountain dweller and destroyer.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,05:27) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,11:07) Wakeup, You are contradicting Scripture as the Son did not speak to humans until these last days.
Kerwin.This is where you are wrong.
The Word of God have always spoken: in the garden and to the prophets.
In His days He as a man; He spoke.
They could see him, and feel him,and ate with Him.
In revelation; he also spoke.
He is the only *Word of God*.wakeup.
Wakeup,The book of Hebrews states that the Son is the one that spoke in these last day though previously other means than the Son were used. If you truly desire to Scripture then you also must claim that it is only in these last days that the Son spoke to human beings.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,10:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,05:27) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,11:07) Wakeup, You are contradicting Scripture as the Son did not speak to humans until these last days.
Kerwin.This is where you are wrong.
The Word of God have always spoken: in the garden and to the prophets.
In His days He as a man; He spoke.
They could see him, and feel him,and ate with Him.
In revelation; he also spoke.
He is the only *Word of God*.wakeup.
Wakeup,The book of Hebrews states that the Son is the one that spoke in these last day though previously other means than the Son were used. If you truly desire to Scripture then you also must claim that it is only in these last days that the Son spoke to human beings.
Kerwin.John the babtist had the Holy spirit from birth.
He knew the mystery;therefore he said:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh,and dwelleth amongst men.
The light(wisdom) shined in darkness,and
the darkness comprehended it not.Today also the darkness comprehended it not,accept them
that is given to comprehend the light.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,06:15) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,10:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,05:27) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,11:07) Wakeup, You are contradicting Scripture as the Son did not speak to humans until these last days.
Kerwin.This is where you are wrong.
The Word of God have always spoken: in the garden and to the prophets.
In His days He as a man; He spoke.
They could see him, and feel him,and ate with Him.
In revelation; he also spoke.
He is the only *Word of God*.wakeup.
Wakeup,The book of Hebrews states that the Son is the one that spoke in these last day though previously other means than the Son were used. If you truly desire to Scripture then you also must claim that it is only in these last days that the Son spoke to human beings.
Kerwin.John the babtist had the Holy spirit from birth.
He knew the mystery;therefore he said:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh,and dwelleth amongst men.
The light(wisdom) shined in darkness,and
the darkness comprehended it not.Today also the darkness comprehended it not,accept them
that is given to comprehend the light.wakeup.
Wakeup,John 1:1-14 says nothing of whether or not the Son spoke to men before these last ages and it certainly does not conflict with the words of Hebrews.
It is a Trinitarian teaching that the Son spoke to human previous to these last days and you never tested to see if it was true.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 29 2013,18:15) Kerwin. John the babtist had the Holy spirit from birth.
He knew the mystery;therefore he said:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh,and dwelleth amongst men.wakeup.
John the Baptist didn't write those words. The apostle John did.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2013,14:55) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 29 2013,18:15) Kerwin. John the babtist had the Holy spirit from birth.
He knew the mystery;therefore he said:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh,and dwelleth amongst men.wakeup.
John the Baptist didn't write those words. The apostle John did.
Mike B.Maybe so; Jesus did not write the gospels either.
wakeup.
Bad news for the Jehovah’s witnesses
From the OP:
Quote We all have seen the shallow argument which is put forth by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It goes like this, “The Father is the almighty God. But Jesus is lesser in power and is just a mighty God.”
….
“The JW's admit that Christ is el gibbor. The old testament says that nothing is too difficult for el gibbor. Therefore, nothing is too difficult for Christ.”As has been noted, this is aimed at the meaning of Is. 9:6:
Quote “6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” – KJV. First, it should be noted that ‘everlasting Father’ can describe only one person: Jesus’ and our Father in heaven. It is not a name or title for Jesus!
Next is the fact that it does not say that the child IS “Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace,” but that is what his NAME is to be called.
Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today. The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as “my,” “is,” “of,” etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.
For instance, two Bible concordances (Young’s and Strong’s) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today’s Dictionary of the Bible) differ greatly on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those “minor” words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name “Elimelech” (which is literally just “God King”) means “God of (the) King.” Young’s Analytical Concordance says it means “God is King.” Today’s Dictionary of the Bible says it means “ God his King” – p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982. And an online meaning is given as “My God is the King.” – " target="_blank">http://www.kveller.com/jewish_….rl] .
I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.”
Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! – For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” – bracketed information is in the original.
But perhaps most instructive of all is the name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.
Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” – – “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” – – “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” – – “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” – – “There will soon be looting and stealing”- – “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” – – “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” – – “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” – – “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” – – “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” – – “Make]/b] haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” – – “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.”
And that is why An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:
“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”
Of course it could also be honestly translated:
“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”
And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[a] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”In short, the name at Is. 9:6 doesn’t have to mean that the child will be God. In fact the evidence shows that it is highly unlikely! For the rest of my study on Names see:
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.htmlQuote (tigger2 @ Dec. 02 2013,10:42) Bad news for the Jehovah’s witnesses From the OP:
Quote We all have seen the shallow argument which is put forth by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It goes like this, “The Father is the almighty God. But Jesus is lesser in power and is just a mighty God.”
….
“The JW's admit that Christ is el gibbor. The old testament says that nothing is too difficult for el gibbor. Therefore, nothing is too difficult for Christ.”As has been noted, this is aimed at the meaning of Is. 9:6:
Quote “6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” – KJV. First, it should be noted that ‘everlasting Father’ can describe only one person: Jesus’ and our Father in heaven. It is not a name or title for Jesus!
Next is the fact that it does not say that the child IS “Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace,” but that is what his NAME is to be called.
Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today. The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as “my,” “is,” “of,” etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.
For instance, two Bible concordances (Young’s and Strong’s) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today’s Dictionary of the Bible) differ greatly on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those “minor” words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name “Elimelech” (which is literally just “God King”) means “God of (the) King.” Young’s Analytical Concordance says it means “God is King.” Today’s Dictionary of the Bible says it means “ God his King” – p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982. And an online meaning is given as “My God is the King.” – ]http://www.kveller.com/jewish_….rl] .I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.”
Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! – For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” – bracketed information is in the original.
But perhaps most instructive of all is the name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.
Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” – – “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” – – “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” – – “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” – – “There will soon be looting and stealing”- – “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” – – “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” – – “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” – – “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” – – “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” – – “Make]/b] haste to plunder! Hurry [b]to the spoil!” – – “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.”
And that is why An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:
“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”
Of course it could also be honestly translated:
“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”
And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[a] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
[b] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”In short, the name at Is. 9:6 doesn’t have to mean that the child will be God. In fact the evidence shows that it is highly unlikely! For the rest of my study on Names see:
[url] http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.html " class="bbcode-link"> ]http://www.kveller.com/jewish_….rl] .I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.”
Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! – For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” – bracketed information is in the original.
But perhaps most instructive of all is the name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.
Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” – – “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” – – “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” – – “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” – – “There will soon be looting and stealing”- – “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” – – “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” – – “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” – – “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” – – “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” – – “Make]/b] haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” – – “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.”
And that is why An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:
“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”
Of course it could also be honestly translated:
“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”
And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[a] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”In short, the name at Is. 9:6 doesn’t have to mean that the child will be God. In fact the evidence shows that it is highly unlikely! For the rest of my study on Names see:
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.html
So many words just to baffle the mind.
All emptiness. Hot air.The fact is Jesus never mentioned the name Jehovah.
The fact is the apostles never mentioned the name Jehovah.
The fact is in revelation was never mentioned the name
Jehovah.But he is the Alpa and the Omega the first and the last.
JW'S never failed to mentioned the name Jehovah
only for one reason,and it's their own reason.
To keep on promoting their society.(advertising).
Using God's name for own gain.
This is blasphemous.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Quote Hebrews 1:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Do you believe that God has not spoken before these last days but instead spoke by the prophets?
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