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We all have seen the shallow argument which is put forth by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It goes like this,
“The Father is the almighty God. But Jesus is lesser in power and is just a mighty God.”
However, I have some bad news for the JW's. There is no Hebrew or Greek word that is equivalent to our English word “almighty.” Thus the JW's have no scriptural evidence to support their heirarchy of two Gods, namely, the one who is almighty, and the other who is just mighty. While most English translations render the Hebrew el shaddai, and the Greek pantakrator as “almighty,” the fact is that neither word means “almighty.”
The Hebrew word el shaddai: This word actually means “God sufficies.” I direct you to the Hebrew-English Interlinear which ALWAYS translates “el shaddai” as “God suffices.”
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen17.pdfNow the new testament is clear that Christ suffices. Therefore, Jesus is el shaddai.
The Greek word pantakrator: This word also does NOT mean “almighty.” It actually means “ruler of all.” But our English translations render Rev. 19:6 thus, “The Lord God omnipotent reigns.” This reading is NOT based in the in the Greek but in the Latin understanding of the Greek “pantakrator.” The Latins translated the Greek “pantakrator” with their word “omnipotens.” The old King James went with the Latin understanding. This is why it says “omnipotent” instead of “ruler of all.” The newer English translations repeat this error and say, “almighty.”
But as stated above the Greek word “pantakrator” means “ruler of all.” The AMP translation says in parenthesis “the All Ruler.”
The new testament testifies that Christ rules over all. Therefore, Christ is pantakrator.
About the Hebrew word el gibbor: The Hebrew word el gibbor, though it does not mean “almighty,” is used to convey the idea of omnipotence depending upon context. In Jeremiah 32 El gibbor is referenced with the complimentary phrases, “there is nothing too hard for thee,” and, “there is, indeed, nothing too difficult for me.”
The JW's admit that Christ is el gibbor. The old testament says that nothing is too difficult for el gibbor. Therefore, nothing is too difficult for Christ.
P.S. I clicked on the Hebrew Interlinear from my post and a page appeared which said “forbidden.” You may have to google it to get on it.
Hmmm……….. Why is that only “bad news” for the JWs? Wouldn't it be equally “bad news” for EVERY English Bible that has the word “Almighty” in it?
From NETNotes:
The name אֵל שַׁדַּי (’el shadday, “El Shaddai”) has often been translated “God Almighty,” primarily because Jerome translated it omnipotens (“all powerful”) in the Latin Vulgate. There has been much debate over the meaning of the name. For discussion see W. F. Albright, “The Names Shaddai and Abram,” JBL 54 (1935): 173-210; R. Gordis, “The Biblical Root sdy-sd,” JTS 41 (1940): 34-43; and especially T. N. D. Mettinger, In Search of God, 69-72. Shaddai/El Shaddai is the sovereign king of the world who grants, blesses, and judges. In the Book of Genesis he blesses the patriarchs with fertility and promises numerous descendants. Outside Genesis he both blesses/protects and takes away life/happiness. The patriarchs knew God primarily as El Shaddai (Exod 6:3). While the origin and meaning of this name are uncertain (see discussion below) its significance is clear. The name is used in contexts where God appears as the source of fertility and life. In Gen 17:1-8 he appeared to Abram, introduced himself as El Shaddai, and announced his intention to make the patriarch fruitful. In the role of El Shaddai God repeated these words (now elevated to the status of a decree) to Jacob (35:11). Earlier Isaac had pronounced a blessing on Jacob in which he asked El Shaddai to make Jacob fruitful (28:3). Jacob later prayed that his sons would be treated with mercy when they returned to Egypt with Benjamin (43:14). The fertility theme is not as apparent here, though one must remember that Jacob viewed Benjamin as the sole remaining son of the favored and once-barren Rachel (see 29:31; 30:22-24; 35:16-18). It is quite natural that he would appeal to El Shaddai to preserve Benjamin’s life, for it was El Shaddai’s miraculous power which made it possible for Rachel to give him sons in the first place. In 48:3 Jacob, prior to blessing Joseph’s sons, told him how El Shaddai appeared to him at Bethel (see Gen 28) and promised to make him fruitful. When blessing Joseph on his deathbed Jacob referred to Shaddai (we should probably read “El Shaddai,” along with a few Hebrew mss, the Samaritan Pentateuch, the LXX, and Syriac) as the one who provides abundant blessings, including “blessings of the breast and womb” (49:25). (The direct association of the name with “breasts” suggests the name might mean “the one of the breast” , but the juxtaposition is probably better explained as wordplay. Note the wordplay involving the name and the root שָׁדַד, shadad, “destroy”] in Isa 13:6 and in Joel 1:15.) Outside Genesis the name Shaddai (minus the element “El” [“God”]) is normally used when God is viewed as the sovereign king who blesses/protects or curses/brings judgment. The name appears in the introduction to two of Balaam’s oracles (Num 24:4, 16) of blessing upon Israel. Naomi employs the name when accusing the Lord of treating her bitterly by taking the lives of her husband and sons (Ruth 1:20-21). In Ps 68:14; Isa 13:6; and Joel 1:15 Shaddai judges his enemies through warfare, while Ps 91:1 depicts him as the protector of his people. (In Ezek 1:24 and 10:5 the sound of the cherubs’ wings is compared to Shaddai’s powerful voice. The reference may be to the mighty divine warrior’s battle cry which accompanies his angry judgment.) Finally, the name occurs 31 times in the Book of Job. Job and his “friends” assume that Shaddai is the sovereign king of the world (11:7; 37:23a) who is the source of life (33:4b) and is responsible for maintaining justice (8:3; 34:10-12; 37:23b). He provides abundant blessings, including children (22:17-18; 29:4-6), but he can also discipline, punish, and destroy (5:17; 6:4; 21:20; 23:16). It is not surprising to see the name so often in this book, where the theme of God’s justice is primary and even called into question (24:1; 27:2). The most likely proposal is that the name means “God, the one of the mountain” (an Akkadian cognate means “mountain,” to which the Hebrew שַׁד, shad, “breast”] is probably related). For a discussion of proposed derivations see T. N. D. Mettinger, In Search of God, 70-71. The name may originally have depicted God as the sovereign judge who, in Canaanite style, ruled from a sacred mountain. Isa 14:13 and Ezek 28:14, 16 associate such a mountain with God, while Ps 48:2 refers to Zion as “Zaphon,” the Canaanite Olympus from which the high god El ruled. (In Isa 14 the Canaanite god El may be in view. Note that Isaiah pictures pagan kings as taunting the king of Babylon, suggesting that pagan mythology may provide the background for the language and imagery.)In reality, it wouldn't matter if the word meant “the cool God”. And it wouldn't matter if Jesus and Jehovah are both called “the cool God”…….. because it would never erase the fact that “the cool god Jesus” remains the Son, Servant, Priest, Prophet, and Anointed One OF “the cool God Jehovah”.
Now, is Jesus ever called “El Shaddai” in scripture? If not, then it is definitely a title meant only for the MOST HIGH God, and not the less high god Jesus Christ.
It's bad news for the JW's because they trust the English translations which say “almighty,” and then argue that there is a hiercarchy of Gods, the one who is almighty (the Father), and the lesser God who is just mighty (Jesus). But there is no Hebrew word which is equivalent to our English “almighty.” The Hebrew el gibbor may convey the idea of “omnipotence” depending upon the context. Christ is called el gibbor.
Since there is no Hebrew word for “almighty,” and since Christ is also called by the name el-gibbor which may convey the idea of omnipotence, then the hiercarchy of powers that the JW's have constructed is rendered inconclusive at best.
And the Greek “pantakrator” does NOT mean “almighty.” It means “ruler of all.” This is clearly what Rev. 19:6 means.
“The Lord God ruler of all REIGNS.”
Christ is repeatedly called the ruler of all in the new testament. Therefore, Christ is pantakrator.
And don't bother to offer me a Greek Lexicon which says that pantakrator means “almighty.” This definition reflects the Latin understanding. The old KJV translators went with the Latin understanding when they translated. In fact, the word “omnipotent” in Rev. 19:6 in the old KJV is not a translation from the Greek. It is a transliteration of the Latin “omnipotens.”
Having to repeat myself still, eh?
Quote Hmmm……….. Why is that only “bad news” for the JWs? Wouldn't it be equally “bad news” for EVERY English Bible that has the word “Almighty” in it Ya, that was my exact first thought.
It's an interesting idea. But wouldn't it be an interesting argument against all trinitarians. I often feel like the non-trinity is presented as a JW idea, so that it is somehow wrong by association.
ED J used to tell me that “El Shaddai” means “The Breasted One” – a thought that is mentioned in the NETNotes info I posted above. Something to do with fertility, I guess.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 16 2013,13:40) It's bad news for the JW's because they trust the English translations which say “almighty,” and then argue that there is a hiercarchy of Gods, the one who is almighty (the Father), and the lesser God who is just mighty (Jesus).
The JWs (or any other non-Trinitarian, for that matter) don't actually NEED the word “Almighty” to make that claim, Jack.Look at Genesis 14:18, where Jehovah is called “the Most High God”.
Then compare that to the NT scriptures that tell us Jesus is the Son OF the Most High God.
If Jesus isn't “the Most High God”, but the Son and Servant OF Him, then it stands to reason that Jesus is a lesser god than the MOST HIGH god.
The God OF Jesus is the Most High God. And Jesus tells us that his God is also our God. So we have as our God only the Most High God who is also the God of Jesus.
You add the servant to the God and worship them both.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 16 2013,13:40) But there is no Hebrew word which is equivalent to our English “almighty.”
Perhaps – according to your source. But doesn't the phrase “most high god” – which is used in both Hebrew and Greek, tell us the same basic thing?If Jehovah is the “MOST HIGH” of all the “mighty ones”, then it would stand to reason that He alone is the “Almighty One”.
I'm okay with Jerome's “omnipotens” translation of El Shaddai…….. because the same basic thing is taught many other ways in many other scriptures anyway.
Yes, breasted one, or for him, a reference to the chest, or figuratively, power? Don't know if that's true. But that's how people who want to get to the word “almighty” reason.
Quick check of Wikipedia shows that it can mean breasted one, or about 5 other things. Weird things. Still have no idea why Kj thinks it has something to do with “suffices”
Quote The JWs (or any other non-Trinitarian, for that matter) don't actually NEED the word “Almighty” to make that claim, Jack. And yet, they, and others do.
I myself have about 10 times pointed out that “almighty” is used with reference to the father 43 times. Trinitarians believe it refers to Jesus once (or maybe twice) in revelation. But that is disputable.
It is a good argument: the father is called almighty repeatedly. Jesus, while called a mighty god, isn't called almighty.
Maybe I should stop saying that. I'd have to actually research this a bit myself.
Some say Shaddai might mean mountain
And el shaddai: “God, the one of the mountain.”
The closest association of Shaddai is to the Akkadian is Shadu (mountain)
http://Www.hebrew4christians.com
“Most English translations render El Shaddai as “God Almighty,” probably because the translators of the Septuagint (i.e., the Greek translation of the Old Testament) thought Shaddai came from a root verb (shadad) that means “to overpower” or “to destroy.” The Latin Vulgate likewise translated Shaddai as “Omnipotens” (from which we get our English word omnipotent). God is so overpowering that He is considered “Almighty.”
According to some of the sages, Shaddai is a contraction of the phrase, “I said to the world, dai (enough)” (as in the famous word used in the Passover Haggadah, Dayeinu — “it would have been sufficient”). God created the world but “stopped” at a certain point. He left creation “unfinished” because He wanted us to complete the job by means of exercising chesed (love) in repair of the world (tikkun olam).
Jacob's blessing given in Genesis 49:25, however, indicates that Shaddai might be related to the word for breasts (shadaim), indicating sufficiency and nourishment (i.e., “blessings of the breasts and of the womb” (בִּרְכת שָׁדַיִם וָרָחַם)). In this case, the Name might derive from the contraction of sha (“who”) and dai (“enough”) to indicate God's complete sufficiency to nurture the fledgling nation into fruitfulness. Indeed, God first uses this Name when He refers to multiplying Abraham's offspring (Gen. 17:2).”
El shaddai Wikipedia:
The translation team behind the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) however maintain that the meaning is uncertain, and that translating “El Shaddai” as “Almighty God” is inaccurate. The NJB leaves it untranslated as “Shaddai,” and makes footnote suggestions that it should perhaps be understood as “God of the Mountain” from the Accadian “shadu,” or “God of the open wastes” from the Hebrew “sadeh” and the secondary meaning of the Accadian word.[4]
Wikipedia:
As mentioned above there are two words in Hebrew that could be the origin of Shaddai: “shada” and “shadad” meaning to nurture and destroy respectively. They are derived from two Semetic root words, one meaning breast or fertility and the other meaning to lay waste, desolate, or bring to ruin. Shaddai can mean either “my sustainers” or “my destroyers” (possessive plural) in Hebrew when referring to humans and could mean both “my ultimate sustainer and my ultimate destroyer” in the majestic plural when referring to the God of Israel.
Quote (david @ Nov. 17 2013,09:33) It is a good argument: the father is called almighty repeatedly. Jesus, while called a mighty god, isn't called almighty. Maybe I should stop saying that.
Yeah, I see your point. But like I told Jack, it's really six of one and a half dozen of the other.If “el” means “mighty one”, and Jehovah is the ONLY “most high mighty one”, then we can gather that Jehovah is the only “Almighty One” – whether or not the word “Shaddai” means such a thing.
And since Jesus is not only never called the “MOST HIGH god”, but is clearly distinguished in scripture as someone OTHER THAN the “MOST HIGH god” – the intended result of Jack's research and thread still falls flat on it's face.
There is only one MOST HIGH god, and Jesus is the servant OF that one. That eliminates Jesus from being the Most High god. And since it would be safe to call the highest of the “mighty ones” the “Almighty One”, and Jesus is someone OTHER THAN that one, the argument still works – despite Jack's source that says there isn't a Hebrew word for “Almighty”.
So the conclusion remains the same – even if Jack won't allow you to distinguish between “el gibbor” and “el shaddai”.
I know that this is about “el shaddai” not meaning “almighty God”, but it is also meant to promote “the doctrine of the trinity”, isn't it Jack? And no, “el shaddai” does not mean “almighty God”.
But the scripture does not state that Jesus is “el gibbor” or mighty god, but it states that his “name is called wonderful, counselor, mighty god”, and this indicates that though his character he exemplifies these attributes. The scriptures state that “he is the express image of God's person”.
Quote
Isa 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
And the scripture states:
Quote
Eph 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 17 2013,05:48) We all have seen the shallow argument which is put forth by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It goes like this, “The Father is the almighty God. But Jesus is lesser in power and is just a mighty God.”
However, I have some bad news for the JW's. There is no Hebrew or Greek word that is equivalent to our English word “almighty.” Thus the JW's have no scriptural evidence to support their heirarchy of two Gods, namely, the one who is almighty, and the other who is just mighty. While most English translations render the Hebrew el shaddai, and the Greek pantakrator as “almighty,” the fact is that neither word means “almighty.”
The Hebrew word el shaddai: This word actually means “God sufficies.” I direct you to the Hebrew-English Interlinear which ALWAYS translates “el shaddai” as “God suffices.”
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen17.pdfNow the new testament is clear that Christ suffices. Therefore, Jesus is el shaddai.
The Greek word pantakrator: This word also does NOT mean “almighty.” It actually means “ruler of all.” But our English translations render Rev. 19:6 thus, “The Lord God omnipotent reigns.” This reading is NOT based in the in the Greek but in the Latin understanding of the Greek “pantakrator.” The Latins translated the Greek “pantakrator” with their word “omnipotens.” The old King James went with the Latin understanding. This is why it says “omnipotent” instead of “ruler of all.” The newer English translations repeat this error and say, “almighty.”
But as stated above the Greek word “pantakrator” means “ruler of all.” The AMP translation says in parenthesis “the All Ruler.”
The new testament testifies that Christ rules over all. Therefore, Christ is pantakrator.
About the Hebrew word el gibbor: The Hebrew word el gibbor, though it does not mean “almighty,” is used to convey the idea of omnipotence depending upon context. In Jeremiah 32 El gibbor is referenced with the complimentary phrases, “there is nothing too hard for thee,” and, “there is, indeed, nothing too difficult for me.”
The JW's admit that Christ is el gibbor. The old testament says that nothing is too difficult for el gibbor. Therefore, nothing is too difficult for Christ.
I have found a few references that say it means “all suffcient” (or self suffcient)Kj, could you provide another link that works. It tried googling it.
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