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Quote (Human @ Jan. 10 2005,08:57) Nick, Here is what Rotherams translation says about Revelation 1:1:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to point out unto his servants the things which must needs come to pass with speed,–and he shewed them by signs, sending through his messenger, unto his servant John;
Even if your translation does not say that, would you not agree that everything than John saw was signs and symbols?
You said that those elders are not kings and that they actually sing songs to kings. Is it TO kings or ABOUT kings? Look at a similar passage at John 17:3. Jesus prays to God and says that God has sent “Jesus Christ”. Is he talking about someone else or about himself?
Also why do you claim that Elijah went to heaven?
John 3:13 “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, [that is,] the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Before Jesus Christ, no one went to heaven.
This one also can give some light:
Matthew 11:11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
hi human…i believe the script in (john 3) is talking about the new birth…the ascention of Jesus in this script is not talking about heaven as the literal throne of God where Jesus is seated now…the ascention into heaven in reference to the new birth means that Jesus was the express image of God & his words were recieved directly from God…his ascention was his relationship with Godas son of God he had no sin & therefore there was no separation due to sin, thus, he was one with God…God was fully accessable to Jesus at all times bc he was given all power in heaven & in earth…he fully beheld the heavenly realm at the same time he was in the earthly realm…that is ascention, ie, being elevated above the natural into the presence of God
in time past, which is before Jesus, the prophets were visited by God & there was visitation of God's presence (such as in moses' day, etc), but Jesus was not limited by visitations…he was fully in God's presence even while he stood on the earth & heaven was as accessable to him as was earth
Jesus said he only did what he saw the Father do & he only spoke what he heard the Father speak…that was literal & he was as much in heaven as he was in earth at all times bc he was never separated from God until the crucifiction when he took on our sins
the new birth is an ascention…we have been reconciled to God from our fallen condition
Hi Dora,
Why would we need sexual function in the millenium and beyond when we have the heavenly body? We have bodies that do not wear out.
Sexuality is of earth and of the flesh.
It is for carnal pleasure.
But Jesus showed it was not necessary even in a natural body so why the eternal? It is a instinct, I would have thought that is driven by bodily needs, but we will only have the motivation to serve and worship God and enough joy and pleasure with Him to make it irrelevant.
It is to fill the earth but surely that will cease when we are resurrected?
Gal 3 says “there is no longer male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”
1Cor says that a married man is divided . He has to please his wife and God.
Would God want that division to continue?
Would God allow sexuality outside of marriage? Unlikely.Angels are asexual though the sons of God married women. Why should God mean something else?
What do others think.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2005,04:13) Hi Dora,
Why would we need sexual function in the millenium and beyond when we have the heavenly body? We have bodies that do not wear out.
Sexuality is of earth and of the flesh.
It is for carnal pleasure.
But Jesus showed it was not necessary even in a natural body so why the eternal? It is a instinct, I would have thought that is driven by bodily needs, but we will only have the motivation to serve and worship God and enough joy and pleasure with Him to make it irrelevant.
It is to fill the earth but surely that will cease when we are resurrected?
Gal 3 says “there is no longer male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”
1Cor says that a married man is divided . He has to please his wife and God.
Would God want that division to continue?
Would God allow sexuality outside of marriage? Unlikely.Angels are asexual though the sons of God married women. Why should God mean something else?
What do others think.
i said the word doesnt say we will be asexual, not that we wont have sex…i dont know if sex will continue or not & it doesnt matter really…i was just saying to be accurate the bible doesnt say we will be asexual
i wonder if procreation was experienced differently in the garden before the fall bc eve was told that she would have sorrow in conception, which was the result of the curse…perhaps things were different before the fall (???) alot we dont know
before eve adam was alone but on the 6th day God made “them” male & female…hmmmm
Hi Dora,
True.
The problem for Eve was with childbirth rather than conception I would have said. They developed self consciousness and put on clothes.They developed guilt problems and scruples too.Hi Dora,
Adam was always male. He was created in the image of the Logos and the Father.
Yeshua was like us in every way but sin. So he lived on earth and was not in heaven while on earth. He had no advantages over us. In fact he said we could do even greater things than he did. We now have among us all the abilities he had.He had incredible unity with the Father but he was not the Father but was separate from the Father and filled with the fulness of the Father's Spirit.
If we had faith we could walk on water too.
if it is true that we could walk on water too then why hasnt anyone except Jesus…clearly Jesus was far superior to other humans…he was the anointed ONE, & heir of heaven & earth…he was flesh as we are & tempted in all points like we are but he never sinned…he was born without sin while all others are born sinners
John 14:12
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.Hi,
I can't help feeling that many of the doctrines of other churches are really catholicism in drag. It shocked me once to hear a Presbyterian minister say that he felt that the pope was the true leader of his church.Repentance means a fresh start based on the Word of God.
What do others think?
An Iranian Moslem I knew who came to New Zealand was converted to Christ. He believed that Jesus Christ was the son of God and the messiah. He believed all the gospel message and was willing with repentance.
However this really unthoughtful christian told him that he must also believe in the Trinity Doctrine to be a true christian. My friend said to him if you show me from scripture that what you say is true, then I will believe. But the man could not, but he was still insistent that he must believe that doctrine also.
Eventually I met this Iranian guy and he found out that I didn't believe in the Trintity Doctrine. We became friends and after listening to some stories, I just couldn't believe what some so-called christians said to him when they were trying to convert him.
Later he told me that he went to an Anglican Church (I think or some other mainline denomination) and he asked someone dressed in a robe if he could show him the Trinity Doctrine in the bible. This man could not show him either and my friend said to him that he believes the gospel, but the Trinity he cannot believe unless he sees scriptural evidence. Eventually this representitive of this church appeared frustrated and said to him that he should remain a Moslem as this is the way that he relates to God. My friend left a very confused man.
I got along side this guy and we searched the scriptures together with great joy. Eventually he invited me to other Iranians in his community and we often had meals together and talked about God.
On one occassion I met some of his friends that were Moslem and others that were christians (from the christian part of Iran, Macedonia or something similar). One christian told these Moslems how he thought Mohammed was cunning by preaching that Martyrs have all these virgins waiting for them in Heaven when they die. He said “talk about a man-made heaven”. It was funny to see even these Moslems laugh about it and I could see that they even had some doubt about their belief.
One thing I learned from this community was how easy it is to preach the gospel to Moslems. They already believe in God and they believe that they should do the right thing. All they need is a good and true witness and the true gospel, but often all they get is all this man-made crap about the Trinity and Mary the Mother of God etc. Then they also observe the infidelity of the West and that settles it for them. Christianity is false.
In fact Mohammed himself wrote in the Koran something like “the christians worship God, Jesus, Mary and the saints”. He also said “do not say Trinity desist from it”. He often made reference to Christians as being in apostacy.
The point I make is that a false religion can look good when the real one acts bad. So long as Christians continue in apostacy, they will never convert anyone to the truth. I even wonder if there would be a Moslem religion if the so-called christians didn't give such a bad witness and teach falsely.
All I can say to those who continue to preach lies is that you are not only hindering yourself, but you hinder many others. You will be held accountable just as the Pharisees were.
Matthew 23:13
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.Babylons influence has indeed made the whole world drunk.
Hi,
According to some that man was already saved because he believed correctly.Others would then say all he needed was to be baptised in the Spirit to be saved.
But you can see why commitment requires a sign before God and man where those from pagan religions convert. That sign of repentance from false evil religion is baptism.
Hi ,
If Is 13 and 14 has a double meaning and refers to Nebuchadnezzer and the Beast of Revelation it is interesting the term King of Babylon is used in 14.4. What of the close relationship between this King and the Whore of Babylon of Rev 17.7?Can we learn about the beast from Nebuchadnezzer?Hi,
I am fascinated by the similar words in Is 47, Jer 51 about Babylon and her worldwide domination and sorcery, and also the similar words abot her demise in these books. I am sure we should be able to enlarge Rev 14.8 and Ch 17 and 18 by comparison with these and others.
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