Babylon and the Beast

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  • #41552
     t8 
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    I have been studying and searching for the identity of the the Woman in Revelation 17.

    I have a few ideas and some clues and I will share them in this forum, but I would be interested in what others think. I have quoted Revelation 17 below:

    1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.
    2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
    3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
    4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
    5 This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
    7 When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.
    8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
    9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
    10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
    11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
    12″The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
    13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
    14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings–and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
    15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
    16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
    17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
    18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

    #41547
     loveandpeace 
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    The woman you are inquiring about represents Babylon the Great. She is called Babylon the Great because form that country is where all pagan religious practices began. So, she is the symbol of all false religion.

    #41550
     t8 
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    Very cool.

    Thx for your simple but what I believe to be spot on interpretation.

    I will post later on what I think is the Babylonian influence not only in the religions of today, but also Babylonian influence dressed up to look Christian.

    #41548
     GJG 
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    Is the location now called Iraq?

    #41553
     t8 
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    Apparently so.

    Jeremiah 51
    64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

    Sadam even tried to rebuild Babylon and was never able to finish it because of the Gulf War. Try these links.

    <a href="
    http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/iraqwar….;Link 2
    Link 3

    So the original Babylon was forever destroyed, but her influence lived on. She infected the whole world with her religious idolatory.

    Jeremiah 51:7
    Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

    In future posts, I will show some close resemblences with Babylon and todays religious systems.

    #41549
     global 
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    The obsessive need to identify "Babylonian" practices in Christianity today is usually an excuse to attack other denominations (usually Roman Catholic) which hold beliefs different to our own.

    This can be seen especially in groups like Jehovahs Witnesses who use the supposed Babylonian connection to deny their followers all sorts of innocent pleasures such as birthday parties, christmas celebrations, etc etc.

    T8, I hope this thread doesn’t become an excuse for attacking particular denominations.

    #41551
     t8 
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    It is not an excuse to single out anyone and attack them. It is an honest search for the meaning of this scripture as my only intention is to find the truth.

    If it turns out that the Woman is the Roman Catholic Church (Mother of all Harlots = Mother of all denominations) then that would condemn the denominational system itself, not just the Roman Catholic Church. If it turns out that the Woman is New York or the USA then so be it. If it is the WCC, then so be it. What is important here is the truth itself, not the reputations of men.

    I really mean this and if it turned out that the Roman Catholic Church was the way that God ordained salvation, then I would become Catholic asap.

    I am only interested in truth and I will search high and low for it as our lives are are short and aligning our lives with truth is of paramount importance. God knows my heart and I am fully aware that we cannot fool him. These words that I speak are from my heart.

    #41554
     NickHassan 
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    The clue is in God's symbolic use of colour.In Ex 25-39 3 colours are shown.
    Blue for God
    Red for Man
    Purple for religion[red plus blue]

    #41555
     NickHassan 
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    The whore is wearing clothes of Red and Purple but Blue is missing. Thus she represents humanistic religion in which God has no part. She is based in Rome [guess who]and she has many daughters[protestant traditional religions who are still largely based on her false practices].She dominates and bewitches millions and blinds them to salvation.

    #41556
     NickHassan 
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    The Whore is also seated on the dragon so her God is not our God. Other gleanings:

    I have been comparing Zech with Revelation and some things come to my attention and I would like to know what T8 and others think.

    Revn is only partly sequential and later chapters are enlargements using different symbolic idioms.The explanation of ch 12 is well expounded in The Watchman site-he is a jew who believes in Jesus but is not reborn and he shows that this sign in the stars occurred in the late 90s.

    Zech 11 1-3 compares to Ps 29 ? seven thunders exposition.

    Zech 13.8 says 2\3 of humanity on earth will perish in the endtimes but He will bring the rest through the fire who call on His Name. Rev 9.18 specifies the death of 1\3 and Rev 16.8 the other 1\3

    Zech 4 speaks of the 2 olive trees and they are called the two anointed ones standing before the Lord of the Earth as in Rev 11 .Zech 4. 2 speaks of a lampstand all of gold with a bowl on top of it -is this one of the bowls poured by the 4th angel on the sun in Rev 16.8? In Zech 14.6 the luminaries[sun and moon]will dwindle[?death of the witnesses of Rev 11]Bodies layng in the street are seen by passers by but may this not just be seen by men on earth?

    The 144.000 spoken of twice in Revn are specified as Jews.They are surely the first fruits and the expression of Rom 1.16 and 2.9-10.As in Rev 11, measuring the temple ,in Zech 2 , measurements were taken of Jerusalem -ie the Jewish people.

    Zechariah is a witness to Rev as are many other s such as Joel and I would like to hear more from anyone who can show men where I am wrong if I am.

    #41557
     NickHassan 
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    You can meet the Whore elsewhere in Scripture especially in the beautiful words of Proverbs Ch [1-9.]where it urges all to stay on the path of truth.

    Pr 2.16 “The adulteress with her smooth words who forsakes the companion of her youth and forgets the pact with her God [she was the original true church].For her path sinks down to death and her footsteps lead to the shades .None who enter theron come back again or gain the paths of life'

    5.6 “lest you see before you the road to life ,her paths will ramble,you know not where” [confusion is her method]

    7.25 “let not your heart turn to her ways ,go not astray in her paths for many are those she has struck down dead,numerous those she has slain”['Come out of her my people']

    Trinity is one of her webs of confusion

    The answer is the same gift Solomon sought-God's Wisdom.
    Pr4.5-7 “Do not forget or turn aside from the words I utter[love the Word]……The beginning of wisdom is: get wisdom.[seek the Holy Spirit's gift of wisdom] At the cost of all you have ,get understanding”

    Then Pr5.15 “drink water from your own cistern.” Trust the Holy spirit to teach you personally and do not follow men or rely solely on the their teachings.

    #41558
     Anonymous
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    Rev 17-v 5 and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    Rev 17-v18 And the woman which thou sawest, is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth….

    You need not research any longer,,,,,The woman is the Statue of Liberty,,,,,The Jacomites of France sent her to their fellow Masons in America, to congratulate us on our new found independency from England……She has a crown of seven spikes,,,,,the Park service says it is for the seven Oceans..but we who know of the great Masonic conspiracy,,,
    know otherwise, ST. JOHN THE DIVINE MAKES IT VERY CLEAR WHO THE WOMAN IS IN THE LAST VERSE.. New York City
    Rev 17-v8 The beast that thou sawest WAS, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition,,,,,,John is saying ” thou sawest was” is that He!s already been here once
    Rev 13-v3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast……Nazi Germany, the 3rd Reich
    Rev 13-v11 And I beheld another beast comming up out of the earth: and he had two horns like a lamb, and spake like a dragon… The United States……The beast is the Masonic New World Order…..that will be put in place By Washington
    THE FALSE PROPHET….and the power ….

    #41559
     ringo111 
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    Dinah

    Where are the two prophets? that the whole world will see?? Where are the plaugues???

    NOwhere!!!! for a beast has not come yet!!!

    And besides, What are you to do?? all your to do is do good. and that should not change, even if there were a beast on earth atm. Because jesus said love your enemies. Yes love even the beast.

    #41560
     t8 
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    Yes love our enemies. But do not hold to their doctrine and do not do as they do. Love also encompasses judgement.

    #41561
     NickHassan 
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    2.cor 11.
    “..when someone comes preaching another Jesus than the one we preached ..you seem to endure it quite well.”
    Catholicism preaches another Jesus, in fact several other Jesus's.

    Jesus the eucharist-they worship the bread and wine of the communion service.
    Jesus the pope-they worship the pope as Jesus's representative and treat his teachings as equivalent to the Scriptures.
    Jesus the bishops and priests. These self appointed leaders are regarded as superior to other men as they hold the keys to accessing the sacraments which are taught as the means to salvation.

    Their religion is a neat and tidy system of works that seems superficially satisfying but it requires one to abandon any personal searching to following the church. It teaches that the Holy Spirit guides the church and what cannot be understood is sacred mystery. It baptises infants without faith or repentance.

    “Depart from her my people for fear of sinning with her and sharing the plagues inflicted on her!…Rev 18. 4

    #41562
     NickHassan 
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    Frankly the most dangerous of men are the false teachers, wolves in sheeps clothing. Sadly their views have become what is known as orthodoxy and they are in general agreement with one another on most spiritual things. Their followers are lulled into a sense of false security and feed on their every word.

    My test of their veracity is to look at their doctrines and especially their doctrines on salvation. If they do not clearly teach that you must be born again of water and the Spirit to even see the kingdom ,let alone join it, then they fail the test.

    Most teach that you just have to make a decision and ask Jesus to be your saviour .Some add that you maybe should also be baptised and others say the baptism of the Spirit is all you need. Some of the traditional ones follow catholicism and sprinkle babies as infants without faith or repentance-false baptism.

    If you do not join the kingdom as Jesus said by entering through the narrow gate then how can you be a teacher in His Church-you are not yet a member?.The minds boggles at the influence of the popes and the so called great evangelists such as Billy Graham and others. Look up their websites for yourself.

    There is only a remnant church.

    #41563
     Dinah 
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    Nick…….I see by some of your posts…I!m in complete agreement….where we differ is where she represents,,,,most feel she represents Rome and the Catholic Church,,,,that could very well be ,,,,along with like you say the Protestant Apostacy,,,,,,it is ” where” she represents that John makes very clear…….Rev 17-18 and the woman thou sawest, is that great city which reigneth over the Kings of the earth……I do not see Rome rising to that ,,,,,,,,,,I do however see New York City,,,,,and the likes of George Bush gives great credence to that possibility………regards Dinah

    #41564
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Dinah,
    As I have explained in a previous post the woman is a religious sysytem. Ch18.16″ Alas,alas,the great city dressed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET..”
    Ch 17.4.”The woman was dressed in PURPLE and SCARLET..” seated on a beast which is Scarlet.In 17v 8 the beast is identified as Satan “The beast you saw existed once but now exists no longer .It will come up from the abyss once more before goig to final ruin” [This puts the timing of this vision in the start of the 1000 yr reign Rev 20-1-3]
    Now if you go to Ex 26.1 and the design of the oiriginal temple God required it be made of 3 colours : the Dwelling itself you shall make out of sheets woven of fine yarn twined and of VIOLET,PURPLE amd SCARLETyarn…” V31″ You shall have a veil woven of VIOLET,PURPLE and SCARLET yarn.”also see 27 16 ,28.33 and several other places in the OT. The symbolism is Violet or blue for God, Scarlet for man and Purple for religion or the interface between God and man.The woman is not wearing any violet so she symbolises man's religion without God taking any part.
    Now the clue is in Rev 17.9.” The seven heads are seven HILLS on which the woman sits enthroned” Look up any encyclopaedia and it will tell you that Rome is famous as being the city of seven hills.Read 18-22ff” No tunes of harpists and minstrels ,of flutists and trumpeters shall ever again be heard in you. No sound of the millstone shall ever again be heard in you .No light from a burning lamp shall ever agin shine out of you.No voices of bride and groom shall ever again be heard in you . Because your merchants were the world's nobility ,you led all nations astray by youyr sorcery. In her was found the blood of prophets and saints and of all who were slain on the earth”
    To me that is a classic symbol of traditional religion and her magnificent church buildings. She has power but it is sorcery and it feeds death to it's followers.
    Her evil influence is worldwide and she bewitches and enslaves millions and her influence is behind the behaviour of many international world leaders at present. They will see their wealth and glory fall because of their relationship to the whore.
    I am no expert and would welcome any correction to my ideas.

    #41565
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Dinah,
    As I have explained in a previous post the woman is a religious sysytem. Ch18.16″ Alas,alas,the great city dressed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET..”
    Ch 17.4.”The woman was dressed in PURPLE and SCARLET..” seated on a beast which is Scarlet.In 17v 8 the beast is identified as Satan “The beast you saw existed once but now exists no longer .It will come up from the abyss once more before goig to final ruin” [This puts the timing of this vision in the start of the 1000 yr reign Rev 20-1-3]
    Now if you go to Ex 26.1 and the design of the oiriginal temple God required it be made of 3 colours : the Dwelling itself you shall make out of sheets woven of fine yarn twined and of VIOLET,PURPLE amd SCARLETyarn…” V31″ You shall have a veil woven of VIOLET,PURPLE and SCARLET yarn.”also see 27 16 ,28.33 and several other places in the OT. The symbolism is Violet or blue for God, Scarlet for man and Purple for religion or the interface between God and man.The woman is not wearing any violet so she symbolises man's religion without God taking any part.
    Now the clue is in Rev 17.9.” The seven heads are seven HILLS on which the woman sits enthroned” Look up any encyclopaedia and it will tell you that Rome is famous as being the city of seven hills.Read 18-22ff” No tunes of harpists and minstrels ,of flutists and trumpeters shall ever again be heard in you. No sound of the millstone shall ever again be heard in you .No light from a burning lamp shall ever agin shine out of you.No voices of bride and groom shall ever again be heard in you . Because your merchants were the world's nobility ,you led all nations astray by youyr sorcery. In her was found the blood of prophets and saints and of all who were slain on the earth”
    To me that is a classic symbol of traditional religion and her magnificent church buildings. She has power but it is sorcery and it feeds death to it's followers.
    Her evil influence is worldwide and she bewitches and enslaves millions and her influence is behind the behaviour of many international world leaders at present. They will see their wealth and glory fall because of their relationship to the whore.
    I am no expert and would welcome any correction to my ideas.

    #41566
     Dinah 
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    and to you Nick……The seven Hills I know,,,,,this is were everyone gets Rome,,,,,,The Statue of Liberty has a crown of seven spikes,,,,the park service says for the seven oceans….Masonry!s little twitch……John also says She is standing on the water, the water  being the Nations and the Multitudes and the tongues, ,……..along with the seven Mts…..John goes on to say there are seven Kings…..five have fallen,,,,BABYLON, EGYPT. ROMAN EMPIRE, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, NAZI GERMANY[ [JOHN ALSO MENTIONS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY STATED] The Beast that WAS…IT!s already made  His appearance……..And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed,,,,,,Nazi Germany[ If you have done any research into the Bush family you will see the ties to Hitler and Nazism]
    [ The Library of Congress] One is;;;;;;;;;THE UNITED STATES.
    And the seventh,,,,,The New World Order…..and the eigth is of the seven……….Satan!s World government, of which this Masonic United States and accompanied with the rest of the Masonic governments of the world will institute on Mankind….and go into perdition……..

    And upon her forehead was written MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH…..THE SEVEN SPIKES ON THE STATUE OF LIBERTY
    AND IN HER HAND SHE HELD A GOLDEN CUP FULL OF THE  ABOMINATIONS AND THE FILTHINESS OF HER FORNICATIONS

    And the beast will speak great blasphemy at HIS NAME…..
    George Bush!s …Homsexuality.,,,,Gay Marriages,,,,Abortions,
    removing GODs Name from Government, making a mockery of GODs Law……….Did  you know Nick ….NASA  is tracking a meteor ,,, and they named it guess what  WORMWOOD……And a third Angel sounded and there fell a star from heaven burning as it were a lamp., and it fell upon a third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of the waters;
    and the name of the star is  WORMWOOD

    I!m sure Nick you are right about the woman and ..WHAT..
    she represents,,,,,,,But where she is and who she represents is very clear in the last verse of  Rev 17-18  and the woman thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the Kings of the earth……NEW YORK CITY  AND MASONIC AMERICA [the sorcery you speak of]  regards Duane

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