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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2011,16:16) Quote (mikeangel @ Jan. 24 2011,09:49) You will find ones who say to worship Yahshua is wrong, because he is not the Father literally.
Yeah Thankful,There are some of us here who still like to obey God's command and Jesus' teaching to worship and serve ONLY YHVH, our God.
peace and love,
mike
what is worship ? to me, worship only means one thing, to love. it is an inner thing.now my heart says that all of our love should go on Yahshua as well as the father, not less, dont you think ? to say that Yahshua is less, is to go against his father dont you think ? God is his father and God loves him. if you truly loved God then you would truly love his son in the same way. we have no idea of how strong Gods love is, unless we have felt it, for we are sinners. if you have felt it, then you will know what i mean.
God bless.
shinar.Hi Keith,
Do you think the slaves mentioned in the scriptures who feared YHVH and SERVED their earthly masters with the utmost devotion were breaking this commandment that God gave? YES or NO?
Or do you think maybe it could refer only to the servitude one performs toward their “God”? Like maybe it's saying to afford that Godly servitude to no one but YHVH?
I don't know about you, Keith.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (thankful @ Jan. 26 2011,13:54) to say that Yahshua is less, is to go against his father dont you think ?
Hi Thankful,Well, you tell me. Did God say to worship only Him…………AND MY SON? Did Jesus tell us this? If scripture CLEARLY tells us to worship only One, yet you take it upon yourself to worship two, then are you obeying God's commands?
And worship is more than “love” IMO. Otherwise I would be “worshipping” my 9 year old son every day.
Thankful, I've been around the block on this topic. I've gone over scripture after scripture. I've examined every possible scripture that could be thrown at me as some kind of “proof” that it's alright to worship Jesus.
And it all boils down to this: God said to worship Him ONLY. And Jesus said to worship God ONLY. Neither one of them stuttered. Don't call him Lord and not do what he says, Thankful.
peace and love to you and yours,
oh, and WELCOME!
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 26 2011,17:05) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 26 2011,13:54) to say that Yahshua is less, is to go against his father dont you think ?
Hi Thankful,Well, you tell me. Did God say to worship only Him…………AND MY SON? Did Jesus tell us this? If scripture CLEARLY tells us to worship only One, yet you take it upon yourself to worship two, then are you obeying God's commands?
And worship is more than “love” IMO. Otherwise I would be “worshipping” my 9 year old son every day.
Thankful, I've been around the block on this topic. I've gone over scripture after scripture. I've examined every possible scripture that could be thrown at me as some kind of “proof” that it's alright to worship Jesus.
And it all boils down to this: God said to worship Him ONLY. And Jesus said to worship God ONLY. Neither one of them stuttered. Don't call him Lord and not do what he says, Thankful.
peace and love to you and yours,
oh, and WELCOME!
mike
depends how you see the word worship. the father is greater than the son. but the son is worshipped too. they worshipped him when he was born. the wise men did.thank you too.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 26 2011,17:31) Hi Thankful, How do you know the wise men worshipped him?
mike
how do i know the wise men worshipped him ?
matt 2;
after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews?
For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
“'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.'”
Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was.
When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 26 2011,07:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2011,21:23) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 25 2011,06:04) Thankful, Revelation 5 says that ALL creation worships Him who sits upon the throne AND the Lamb.
No…………it doesn't. Nor does ANY scripture ANYWHERE indicate that Jesus is worshipped or should be worshipped by anyone.Jack, our Lord clearly said, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ “
And now he wants to know, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?”
mike
MikeThen why do you “serve Jesus” when Jesus said “serve him only“?
See how that is a two edged sword? We are to serve Jesus in no less capacity than the Father, and that is the greatest form of worship!
WJ
Keith,Mike knows our answer to this. Jesus had come in the form of a servant and had not yet been exalted when He spoke those words to satan. Paul called himself the “servant” of the exalted Christ many times.
Mike is running away from the truth!
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2011,21:55) Hi Keith, Do you think the slaves mentioned in the scriptures who feared YHVH and SERVED their earthly masters with the utmost devotion were breaking this commandment that God gave? YES or NO?
Hi MikeYou like giving loaded questions that do not compare to the subject don’t you?
But the answer to your question is “If the Hebrew slaves gave their masters “EQUAL OR GREATER” devotion they gave to YHVH then “YES” that would be breaking his commandment.“
Your question doesn’t address my premise at all. Their devotion is partly based on there “involuntary” slavery.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2011,21:55) Or do you think maybe it could refer only to the servitude one performs toward their “God”?
Then what is the use for the commandment then?“Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ “
I think it means what it says.. Worship and serve “Only One God”. Not 2, a big “God” and a little “god”. Get my drift?
Didn’t you say…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,18:35) Jesus is the god, or “powerful ruler” of all in heaven right now, and of the believer's on earth.
So if Jesus is your “god” Mike and you give him honor and devotion as your 'god” and he is not your “God” then you would be breaking the commandment, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2011,21:55) Like maybe it's saying to afford that Godly servitude to no one but YHVH?
Or it’s more like he is your “Only Master and Lord and God”, for Jesus said you cannot serve 2 Masters.“Do you give Jesus as your “god” the same devotion and honor you do to the Father?” It is a Yes or No answer Mike.
I don't know about you, Mike.
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 23 2011,03:48) Major premise: God Almighty is our rest.
Minor premise: Christ is our rest
Conclusion: Therefore, Christ is God Almighty.
Roo as roosual you are clutching at straws.I could make the argument that we are Christ by simply stating that he is the light of the world (John 8:12) and we are also the light of the world, (Matthew 5:14).
Wake up roo.
If we are to be like Christ we will share in his character, nature, and consequently, description. Likewise for Christ and God.Reminder for you:
FOR US, there is one God the Father.
FOR ROO, there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit.
I wonder which one is supported by scripture?
Would you like to take a guess?Your answer here:
Wrong Roo.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 26 2011,15:39) I could make the argument that we are Christ by simply stating that he is the light of the world (John 8:12) and we are also the light of the world, (Matthew 5:14).
T8No you couldn't because Jesus is “The Light” that shines on “EVERY MAN” (John 1:9). JTB said he wasn't “the light” but was sent to bear witness of the light.
The light that is in us is Jesus who is “The Light”.
Jesus is also the “Only Begotten Son”.
Jesus is also “the Way, the Truth and the Life”.
Are we any of those things?
Why do you anti Jesus is God folks always try to reduce Jesus and who he is?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2011,21:55) Hi Keith, Do you think the slaves mentioned in the scriptures who feared YHVH and SERVED their earthly masters with the utmost devotion were breaking this commandment that God gave? YES or NO?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 27 2011,07:36)
Hi MikeYou like giving loaded questions that do not compare to the subject don’t you?
Keith, my ONLY point, which IS the actual “subject”, is that the command refers to serving someone with Godly devotion. I can serve Jesus as a vice regent of his God. But I won't serve him as if he IS God Himself………….because Jesus told me not to. He told us which ONE we are to serve as God.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 27 2011,07:36)
I think it means what it says.. Worship and serve “Only One God”. Not 2, a big “God” and a little “god”. Get my drift?
Yes Keith, I “get your drift”!
And I agree we should not serve a “big God” and a “little god” as if BOTH of them were the “big God”. And there is only ONE “big God”. The “little god” says it is the Father. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 27 2011,07:36)
So if Jesus is your “god” Mike and you give him honor and devotion as your 'god” and he is not your “God” then you would be breaking the commandment, right?
Jesus, David, Moses, Abraham, and many others can all be my elohim, and I can serve them as such. But none of them are THE Elohim Almighty who created me. Only to HIM will I give Godly servitude.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 27 2011,07:36)
Or it’s more like he is your “Only Master and Lord and God”, for Jesus said you cannot serve 2 Masters.
Jude 1:4 says, “deny our only Master, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. For you to imagine that it calls Jesus “our only Master” is wishful thinking.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 27 2011,07:36)
“Do you give Jesus as your “god” the same devotion and honor you do to the Father?” It is a Yes or No answer Mike.
NO. I give Jesus the devotion and honor that is appropriate for a vice regent of God. And I give his God the devotion and honor required as my Creator and the God who sent His only begotten Son to die so that we might be able to live indefinitely.peace and love to you Keith,
mikeQuote (thankful @ Jan. 26 2011,15:30) how do i know the wise men worshipped him ? matt 2;
Hi Thankful,This is from one of my posts in a thread that discusses who we should worship…………found here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=1560
The following quote is from the third post down on the page, but the conversation itself goes on and on and on like the Energizer Bunny!
Here's where we all are guys. The following are facts that NONE of you can deny:
1. Scripture ONLY ever says to worship Jehovah.
2. The Greek word “proskuneo” can be used to relate WORSHIP or just DOING OBEISANCE.
3. In reference to Jesus, the word can either mean he was WORSHIPPED or SHOWN HONOR AND REVERENCE.
These are all FACTS guys. There's no way around these straightforward FACTS.
Now here is where the problem lies. Some people want to translate “proskuneo” as WORSHIP in reference to Jesus. Will the word itself support this translation? Yes. But DOES SCRIPTURE support this translation? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
You can read all about “worship” in that thread, and add your own comments or questions. But the bottom line is that your scriptures contain the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that word CAN mean “worship”, but doesn't always mean “worship”. It could also refer to the “bowing down to men to show reverence or honor”. (For example, the same word is used for a man bowing down to King David.) So don't be fooled by trinitarian translations that render the word “proskuneo” as “worship” in referrence to Jesus. For to do so goes against a DIRECT command of God AND the teaching of his Son. The word “proskuneo” in referrence to Jesus is better translated as “did obeisance” or “bowed down before”.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2011,15:52) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 26 2011,15:30) how do i know the wise men worshipped him ? matt 2;
Hi Thankful,This is from one of my posts in a thread that discusses who we should worship…………found here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=1560
The following quote is from the third post down on the page, but the conversation itself goes on and on and on like the Energizer Bunny!
Here's where we all are guys. The following are facts that NONE of you can deny:
1. Scripture ONLY ever says to worship Jehovah.
2. The Greek word “proskuneo” can be used to relate WORSHIP or just DOING OBEISANCE.
3. In reference to Jesus, the word can either mean he was WORSHIPPED or SHOWN HONOR AND REVERENCE.
These are all FACTS guys. There's no way around these straightforward FACTS.
Now here is where the problem lies. Some people want to translate “proskuneo” as WORSHIP in reference to Jesus. Will the word itself support this translation? Yes. But DOES SCRIPTURE support this translation? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
You can read all about “worship” in that thread, and add your own comments or questions. But the bottom line is that your scriptures contain the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that word CAN mean “worship”, but doesn't always mean “worship”. It could also refer to the “bowing down to men to show reverence or honor”. (For example, the same word is used for a man bowing down to King David.) So don't be fooled by trinitarian translations that render the word “proskuneo” as “worship” in referrence to Jesus. For to do so goes against a DIRECT command of God AND the teaching of his Son. The word “proskuneo” in referrence to Jesus is better translated as “did obeisance” or “bowed down before”.
peace and love,
mike
thanks. i can undrestand that. but, looking back on this thread and others, i have more to say on the topic.here is my study for the day.
at the baptism of yahshua, the father son and holy spirit are all present at the same time but in different places.
yahshua is in the river being baptised,
the holy spirit descends down on him like a dove,
the father speaks from heaventhree distinct beings.
a similar thing, yahshua promised to pray the father in heaven and ask him to send the holy spirit. again there are three. one is in charge (the father), one asks (the son) and one is sent (the holy spirit)
it says there is only one God. but the son is called God as well, as is the holy spirit is called God.
if you think you can try and explain this yourself, Gods thoughts are not our thoughts, Gods ways are not our ways. and only God can reveal God,
but, God has revealed God.
God has been revealed to us in yahshua.
God was revealed – in the flesh.
if we want God to show us who and what he is, we must look exclusively to the son. (if you have seen me, you have seen the father) so if you have seen the son, you have seen God (thomas – my lord and my God!)the father was in heaven, and at the same time the father dwelled in yahshua in full. (col 2:9. john 17:21).
the holy spirit also dwelled in yahshua, and without measure, in totality.
and the son dwells in the father at the same time, (john 14:11 and john 17:21).the perfect unity of father son and holy spirit as one ?
Thankful,
I know you are a new member, so I want to tell you my experience. I feel exactly like you do and quoted the exact scriptures you did. Then, I felt like I beat my head against the wall for the next week here, and them was told “you worship in vain”, which really blew my mind. FYI, dont get bent out of shape like I did. This site has trinitarians and nontrinitarians on it. To me it is impossible to be any other way. To them they split translations and meanings to show that Jesus was not God, only a phrophet, which gives Jesus the same amount of respect as the muslims do. What I am trying to say is dont get your feelings hurt because I know what you are about to get. Hang in there and hold your ground. God loves you, his right arm died for you, and his spirit is with you. Blessed are you. Peace-MarkAt the end of Revalations, Jesus said that he would be with us until the end of the world. It also says that Jesus is at God's right hand in heaven after he ascended. How can he be two places at one time? Because all three are in and through each other. Each ones number, to me, is 333. Each is composed of each other, equally. Jesus did not claim authority to God, as an example of humility to us. Now together, God is 333+333+333=999. Gods number. Perfect. Matches the new testament-27 books. Also when turned upside down, which the devil is trying to do-666. Cursed be him, blessed be God.
By the way, I am getting old, my memory is not what it used to be. That was not Revelations, it was the end of Matthew, Mathew 28:20 “Teach them to carry out everything I have commanded you. And know that I am with you always, until the end of the world!”. Peace
Quote (thankful @ Jan. 27 2011,18:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2011,15:52) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 26 2011,15:30) how do i know the wise men worshipped him ? matt 2;
Hi Thankful,This is from one of my posts in a thread that discusses who we should worship…………found here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=1560
The following quote is from the third post down on the page, but the conversation itself goes on and on and on like the Energizer Bunny!
Here's where we all are guys. The following are facts that NONE of you can deny:
1. Scripture ONLY ever says to worship Jehovah.
2. The Greek word “proskuneo” can be used to relate WORSHIP or just DOING OBEISANCE.
3. In reference to Jesus, the word can either mean he was WORSHIPPED or SHOWN HONOR AND REVERENCE.
These are all FACTS guys. There's no way around these straightforward FACTS.
Now here is where the problem lies. Some people want to translate “proskuneo” as WORSHIP in reference to Jesus. Will the word itself support this translation? Yes. But DOES SCRIPTURE support this translation? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
You can read all about “worship” in that thread, and add your own comments or questions. But the bottom line is that your scriptures contain the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that word CAN mean “worship”, but doesn't always mean “worship”. It could also refer to the “bowing down to men to show reverence or honor”. (For example, the same word is used for a man bowing down to King David.) So don't be fooled by trinitarian translations that render the word “proskuneo” as “worship” in referrence to Jesus. For to do so goes against a DIRECT command of God AND the teaching of his Son. The word “proskuneo” in referrence to Jesus is better translated as “did obeisance” or “bowed down before”.
peace and love,
mike
thanks. i can undrestand that. but, looking back on this thread and others, i have more to say on the topic.here is my study for the day.
at the baptism of yahshua, the father son and holy spirit are all present at the same time but in different places.
yahshua is in the river being baptised,
the holy spirit descends down on him like a dove,
the father speaks from heaventhree distinct beings.
a similar thing, yahshua promised to pray the father in heaven and ask him to send the holy spirit. again there are three. one is in charge (the father), one asks (the son) and one is sent (the holy spirit)
it says there is only one God. but the son is called God as well, as is the holy spirit is called God.
if you think you can try and explain this yourself, Gods thoughts are not our thoughts, Gods ways are not our ways. and only God can reveal God,
but, God has revealed God.
God has been revealed to us in yahshua.
God was revealed – in the flesh.
if we want God to show us who and what he is, we must look exclusively to the son. (if you have seen me, you have seen the father) so if you have seen the son, you have seen God (thomas – my lord and my God!)the father was in heaven, and at the same time the father dwelled in yahshua in full. (col 2:9. john 17:21).
the holy spirit also dwelled in yahshua, and without measure, in totality.
and the son dwells in the father at the same time, (john 14:11 and john 17:21).the perfect unity of father son and holy spirit as one ?
Hi again! When you worship Jesus as you do His Father are you not going against this Commandment?1 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Other “gods” can include possessions, power or prominence.)
To worship the Holy Spirit of God and all three is the trinity. The trinity is not of God but of man.
It was Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian, who after three brutal and bloody centuries came up with it. And it was Constantine who made it into Law.Lets see how many Scriptures teach us that there is only ONE Almighty God who I worship….
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
And by Jesus own words in
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
One of my friends likes to say that if the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity then us He not Jesus Father?
These are the Scriptures above, why I worship Jehovah God only, and honor Jesus who is out Mediator ti go directly to the Throne of Almighty God.
Also throughout the Old Testament time you will find LORD in all capital letters. And for Jesus lord…There is a distinct difference in Scriptures to show us that Jehovah God is above all.
Yes, Jesus is called God and The Word of God, however God is a title and so is The Word of God. Both have names. Jehovah God who is above all, and Yeshua who is Jesus….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Mark and Truthful,
Who does Jesus say is the “only true God”? The Father.
Who does Paul say is our “one God”? The Father.
Who does scripture say Jesus is? The only begotten Son OF God. The anointed one OF God. The beginning of the creation OF God. A servant OF God. The mediator BETWEEN God and mankind. The Priest OF God. The Lamb OF God.
I mean, just pick ONE of them. God isn't begotten in any way – Jesus is. God wasn't anointed by anyone – Jesus was. God isn't a part of His own creation – Jesus is. God isn't a servant of anyone – Jesus is. God isn't the mediator between Himself and mankind – Jesus is. God cannot be His own Priest. God cannot DIE as a sacrifice – but Jesus surely died.
And Jesus calls YHVH “our God and HIS God”. He still calls him “my God”. Why does none of this register with some people?
And the Holy Spirit is OF God also. It is not an individual PERSON, and therefore doesn't have a personal name like every PERSON in the scriptures does.
peace and love,
mike
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