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Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:55) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,19:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character (Webster's)2. Individuality (Webster's)
Adam and Eve were both “the Adam” in the sense of definition# 1. But they were individually the male and the female.
So Christ is “the God” in the sense of definition# 1. But individually He is the Son.
Ya don't need a degree in rocket science dude!
KJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:55) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,19:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
Hi T8,Last I heard, he was sawing a big rock in half,
saying he was making 'it' into “TWO” beings!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,06:09) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:55) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,19:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
Hi T8,Last I heard, he was sawing a big rock in half,
saying he was making 'it' into “TWO” beings!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,So you do believe then that if a rock is cut in two it becomes two beings (substances)? I said that it remains one substance still.
You guys can't refute the logic so you just mock instead. Intelligent people who visit here just to read will perceive that you mock because you cannot refute the logic.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,06:19) So you do believe then that if a rock is cut in two it becomes two beings (substances)? I said that it remains one substance still.
Pretty simple. 2 rocks. Both are rocks.
Again this debate should be for 4 year olds and under.I have a son who is 5 and he would be offended if I taught him this stuff because he has moved onto spelling and writing now.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,05:48) t8, Why do you mock the word of truth dude?
26 Then God said, “Let Us make adam in Our image, according to Our likeness; let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created the adam in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM.
KJ, I make fun of the fact that you completely ignore any reference to identifying and individual among those who share the same nature.My example is but a logical piece of text based on your logic and understanding.
If it comes across as mocking, then know that it is perfectly logical in your teaching and therefore if it is not serious, then please look at your own doctrine because it set the tempo.
I have said it too many times to count, but your error is in not accepting the difference between identity and nature in the language of scripture.
Until you can grasp or accept it, you are destined to repeat the same foolish doctrine.You cannot even identify Adam, never mind God. You seem to think that adam/Adam and god/God is the same.
Yet even a child at Sunday school can grasp that Adam was the first man and that adam is a term applied to all who partook in his nature.
As I said before, it is written that the worldly wise and proud will be made foolish. This is how it is turning out for you.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,08:10) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,06:19) So you do believe then that if a rock is cut in two it becomes two beings (substances)? I said that it remains one substance still.
Pretty simple. 2 rocks. Both are rocks.
Again this debate should be for 4 year olds and under.I have a son who is 5 and he would be offended if I taught him this stuff because he has moved onto spelling and writing now.
We're talking about beings as substances. Pay attention. Beings in the PRIMARY sense is substances.Quote The situation is the same, Aristotle claims, with the term ‘being’. It, too, has a primary sense as well as related senses in which it applies to other things because they are appropriately related to things that are called ‘beings’ in the primary sense. The beings in the primary sense are substances; the beings in other senses are the qualities, quantities, etc., that belong to substances. An animal, e.g., a horse, is a being, and so is a color, e.g, white, a being. But a horse is a being in the primary sense — it is a substance — whereas the color white (a quality) is a being only because it qualifies some substance. An account of the being of anything that is, therefore, will ultimately have to make some reference to substance. Hence, the science of being qua being will involve an account of the central case of beings — substances.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries….iQuaBeiBeings in the PRIMARY sense are substances. Substance refers to essential nature or qualities (Webster's).
CHRIST IS THE SAME BEING AS HIS FATHER BUT EACH ARE THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL PERSON
Quote The Son is the exact impression of the very nature of God; of His real being. He is one and the same hypostasis repeated. It exists in one form in the Father, in another in the Son. From this point of view, if we take hypostasis in it later, Cappadocian sense (person)we cannot say that the person of the Son is the exact person of the Father because (in Cappadocian terms) the Son is begotten and the father is not. What is duplicated in the Son is the father's nature or BEING; which is why he himself could say, 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father' (John 14:9). The Person of Christ, Donald Macleod, IVP, pages 82-83
THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE THE SAME HYPOSTASIS (BEING OR ESSENCE). HEBREWS 1 IS VERY CLEAR ABOUT IT! I HAVE SHOWN FROM THE DICTIONARIES THAT THE WORD “BEING” MAY MEAN “ESSENCE.” THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE THE SAME BEING IN THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE THE SAME ESSENCE. BUT THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL, DISTINCT PERSONS.KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,08:25) We're talking about beings as substances. Pay attention. Beings in the PRIMARY sense is substances.
I am paying attention. It is you who is not.Rock is the nature, and we have 2 rocks if you can hold one in each hand.
Yes, all human beings combined is humanity, but a human being is one of those beings among many and we refer to each being as him/her.
Similarly, rock is a substance. Yet there are many individual rocks that we could identify.
Again:
If I identity a rock, I am talking about a specific individual rock.
e.g., the rock fell on that house during the earthquake.
If I say, the sculpture is made of wood and rock, then I am not identifying a specific rock as such, but am talking about the substance in general.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:55) Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 09 2011,13:09)
Hi T8,Last I heard, he was sawing a big rock in half,
saying he was making 'it' into “TWO” beings!
Hi T8,
Yes it should! Perhaps I misunderstood the 'essence' of his question?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,16:45) If I say, the sculpture is made of wood and rock, then I am not identifying a specific rock as such, but am talking about the substance in general.
t8And the substance of the Rock is still the Rock.
The substance of God is still God.
To easy for you I guess.
WJ
What is your point?
If we are going to inherit a body like Jesus and if we can participate in divine nature, then are we God?
WJ, God is a person/identity. His name is YHWH.
God HIMSELF is not a substance, just as I am not a substance. If I was, then when you addressed t8, then that would be aimed at all men as I am a man. Surely you can comprehend this, it is basic stuff.You see when scripture says Adam (THE adam) it is not talking about nature or flesh. It does that when it says adam.
Perhaps you are just not smart enough WJ. In that case, you should be teaching and debating things on the level that you are able. You shouldn't try for things you have no understanding about. Would you for example let a child drive a car? So why do you debate such subjects when you ask the same things over and over thereby demonstrating that most of this is going way over your head.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) What is your point?
T8My point is you can’t identify a “Rock” unless you identify its nature or substance. And you can't identify God unless you also identify context or his nature or how could you tell that he is not “The God” of this world?
That is basic stuff. You insist that you can separate identity with nature and you can’t. I have shown examples and you keep insisting on your false model using Adam and adam as an excuse to deny that Jesus is God and of “Gods kind” and “Only” he is because the scriptures say he is the “Only Monogenes (Begotten Son), and Monogenes means; single of its kind, only.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) If we are going to inherit a body like Jesus and if we can participate in divine nature, then are we God?
Inheriting a body like Jesus makes us glorified humans who “SHARE” the nature and image of God and who is it that we are being made to be like? It is Jesus for he is the “Image” we are being changed into which is the image of God. If you can’t see the difference then you are just sticking your head in the sand or you are just not smart enough to comprehend simple truths like this.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) WJ, God is a person/identity. His name is YHWH.
God HIMSELF is not a substance, just as I am not a substance.
If you are not a substance then how would I know how to identify you? t8 could be the name of a computer program or a dog. God himself has substance or nature and that substance, nature or essence is what makes him God and separates him from every other creature. Again this is basic stuff. In fact, it is by his substance, essence, and nature that all things consist, does that ring a bell? By him (Jesus) all things consist and are upheld by the Word of his (Jesus) power. Heb 1:3 – Col 1:17 He was before all things and by him all things consist which is in harmony with Johns words that without him (Jesus) nothing came into being. John 1:3Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) If I was, then when you addressed t8, then that would be aimed at all men as I am a man. Surely you can comprehend this, it is basic stuff.
Well I hope I am not addressing a dog or a horse when I address you, of course that could be possible but usually horses and dogs do not type and speak. So yes I am addressing humanity because I am addressing a human. Trinitarians address the Father as Father and the Son as Jesus yet we are addressing God for they share the same exact substance and nature which makes God, God. Simple stuff how can you not get this is it because you are so steeped in your false doctrine that you cannot let it go for the truth?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) You see when scripture says Adam (THE adam) it is not talking about nature or flesh. It does that when it says adam.
Really? Do you have a scripture for that? The Hebrew word for adam was not written in caps and it is Strong's H120 – 'adam which means; 1) man, mankind, and the first time it is mentioned is found here…And God said, Let us make man (adam) in our image, after our likeness: and let ”THEM” have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen 1:26
So bottom line is Adam is also adam. The Father is God and Jesus is also God for they share the same nature, essence, substance of what is God.
Jesus is ”the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, (substance or essence)” No other creature is the exact representation of Gods being except the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit who are One Spirit, one essence and one God.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:20) Perhaps you are just not smart enough WJ. In that case, you should be teaching and debating things on the level that you are able. You shouldn't try for things you have no understanding about. Would you for example let a child drive a car? So why do you debate such subjects when you ask the same things over and over thereby demonstrating that most of this is going way over your head.
All of your insults and condescending remarks and ad hominems do not change the truth that you believe in a Jesus that is less than God in nature when the scriptures teach he is the “exact representation of his being”. He is God manifested in the flesh, the visible image of the invisible God.IS JESUS THE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF GODS BEING OR SUBSTANCE, NATURE OR ESSENCE?
IS JESUS THE ONLY MONOGENES (GODKIND) SON?
Let’s see if you answer after all that talk about others not answering questions.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,09:50) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,16:45) If I say, the sculpture is made of wood and rock, then I am not identifying a specific rock as such, but am talking about the substance in general.
t8And the substance of the Rock is still the Rock.
The substance of God is still God.
To easy for you I guess.
WJ
“If you believe not when I tell you of earthly things, how will you believe when I tell you of heavenly things”Keith said:
Quote If you are not a substance then how would I know how to identify you?
Exactly!Quote The situation is the same, Aristotle claims, with the term ‘being’. It, too, has a primary sense as well as related senses in which it applies to other things because they are appropriately related to things that are called ‘beings’ in the primary sense. The beings in the primary sense are substances; the beings in other senses are the qualities, quantities, etc., that belong to substances. An animal, e.g., a horse, is a being, and so is a color, e.g, white, a being. But a horse is a being in the primary sense — it is a substance — whereas the color white (a quality) is a being only because it qualifies some substance. An account of the being of anything that is, therefore, will ultimately have to make some reference to substance. Hence, the science of being qua being will involve an account of the central case of beings — substances. Keith, would you answer these?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
There are billions of beings known as “mankind”. Is there more than “one mankind”? Is there more than “one Godkind?Thank God. You have fallen away from Jack's absurdity that humankind consists only of ONE BEING. But now that you admit there are billions of INDIVIDUAL BEINGS within the SPECIES of mankind, I have a follow up question:
Keith, is any one of these INDIVIDUAL BEINGS the exact same INDIVIDUAL BEING as his father?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30) 2. Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD. Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO? Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
Yes.God is a title that identifys a class of being!
Thank you for FINALLY answering this simple and direct question with a direct answer! Your answer of “YES” is the correct one, supported by many scriptures.Your second statement is off, though. Keith, how many beings are there in this “class of being” known as “God”?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Keith, would you answer these?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
There are billions of beings known as “mankind”. Is there more than “one mankind”? Is there more than “one Godkind?Thank God. You have fallen away from Jack's absurdity that humankind consists only of ONE BEING. But now that you admit there are billions of INDIVIDUAL BEINGS within the SPECIES of mankind, I have a follow up question:
Keith, is any one of these INDIVIDUAL BEINGS the exact same INDIVIDUAL BEING as his father?
No. But man is “one mankind” or “one flesh”, one essence or substance, and God is “one Godkind” or “One Spirit”, one essence or substance?How many Spirits have you received? How many gods live in you? How many gods are sitting in Gods Throne?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30) 2. Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD.
No we don’t! You say you believe in “Only One True Living God” but you then say you believe in “other true living gods”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30) Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO?
Yes.God is a title that identifies a class of being!
Thank you for FINALLY answering this simple and direct question with a direct answer! Your answer of “YES” is the correct one, supported by many scriptures.
Ha Ha Yet you argued that God (elohim) only meant ruler and it didn’t identify God. Remember?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Your second statement is off, though. Keith, how many beings are there in this “class of being” known as “God”?
Three persons that share the same essence, substance, nature and Spirit that makes God, God.Prove that their nature is not exactly the same and that they are not of the same KIND!!!
Is Jesus the “Only Begotten (Monogenes Son) or not?
If he is in what way is his nature, essence, substance or class of being different than the Fathers?
How man “true gods” are there sitting in Gods Throne Mike?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Keith, is any one of these INDIVIDUAL BEINGS the exact same INDIVIDUAL BEING as his father?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
No.
Thank you Keith. I will add this to my thread.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Keith, how many beings are there in this “class of being” known as “God”?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
Three persons that share the same essence, substance, nature and Spirit that makes God, God.
Keith, HOW MANY BEINGS?mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
Is Jesus the “Only Begotten (Monogenes Son) or not?
Yes Keith. God BROUGHT FORTH a Son.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
If he is in what way is his nature, essence, substance or class of being different than the Fathers?
Well “God Almighty” isn't a “class of being” Keith. God Almighty is ONE SINGLE BEING who created all other beings. Jesus is LIKE his God, as my son is LIKE me. But Jesus is not his God any more than my son is me.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
How many “true gods” are there sitting in Gods Throne Mike?
Two right now Keith. One of them is the Most High God of all other gods; and the other is one of the gods He is the God of.Don't forget how the word “god” was used back then Keith.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,11:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Keith, is any one of these INDIVIDUAL BEINGS the exact same INDIVIDUAL BEING as his father?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
No.
Thank you Keith. I will add this to my thread.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2011,10:18)
Keith, how many beings are there in this “class of being” known as “God”?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,10:46)
Three persons that share the same essence, substance, nature and Spirit that makes God, God.
Keith, HOW MANY BEINGS?mike
MikeThere is One God and that being is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Prove by scripture it is not possible for God to be a plural being.
Answer my questions Mike.
WJ
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