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Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 30 2011,10:20) But you are not looking at the whole picture Mike.
I'm completely happy with my “whole picture”, Tim.3 years ago, I was a hopelessly addicted, drug addled atheist, broke and living on the streets. Then I asked a God I never believed in for help.
3 years later, and here I am, in sunny California right now with my 10 year old son and his two buddies, enjoying a week of vacation.
I went from not having a quarter in my pocket to holding down a decent job, buying a car, paying back my past debts, saving a little cash, giving to the poor, and being able to do wholesome, non-drug and alcohol related things with my boy.
That's what faith did for me, Tim. Results may vary.
(Gotta go. We're off to Medieval Times now, to enjoy a dinner show. Then it's off to Knott's Berry Farm for the next two days. I'll come back to work more tired than when I left!
)peace,
mikeQuote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 29 2011,22:25) Hi T8, Congratulations.
I have seldom seen that much miss-information presented in such little space.Tim
Thanks Tim.As I said, Atheists assumes that all these laws just happened as an unintended consequence of the result of an explosion that came from nothing and unraveled galaxies, life, stars, planets, atoms, and of course bananas too. They assume that there is no law giver and no intelligent cause.
What a faith.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2011,08:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 30 2011,10:20) But you are not looking at the whole picture Mike.
I'm completely happy with my “whole picture”, Tim.3 years ago, I was a hopelessly addicted, drug addled atheist, broke and living on the streets. Then I asked a God I never believed in for help.
3 years later, and here I am, in sunny California right now with my 10 year old son and his two buddies, enjoying a week of vacation.
I went from not having a quarter in my pocket to holding down a decent job, buying a car, paying back my past debts, saving a little cash, giving to the poor, and being able to do wholesome, non-drug and alcohol related things with my boy.
That's what faith did for me, Tim. Results may vary.
(Gotta go. We're off to Medieval Times now, to enjoy a dinner show. Then it's off to Knott's Berry Farm for the next two days. I'll come back to work more tired than when I left!
)peace,
mike
I am very happy for you Mike.
You sound like an extremely intelligent person.
It is terrible what drugs can do to screw the mind of a person up.
I hope you can stay away from them, whatever it takes.I envy you your vacation in sunny California, I am in the dreary midwest.
Tim
Mike,
Thank you for sharing your testimony, mine was similar for the first few years then we continued to enjoy blessings for the next 25 + years spotted with only occasional trials. Then a few years ago God saw fit, by his grace, to bring trial after trial into my life until I actually now understand what was meant by “always giving thanks to God the Father for everything” I now realize that trials have an eternal purpose to my everlasting benefit.Hope you enjoy your time in LA, like TimothyVI I'm in the Midwest, not known for warm sunny days in Dec.
Have a great time,
WmDon't I know it, Wm.
I spent the first 36 years of my life in Davenport, Iowa. I don't envy you or Tim right now.
I remember one winter when the sun didn't break through the clouds in 92 days! I'm sorry to hear about your many trials. I have not had any to speak of in the last three years. But I'm aware that bad things happen in this world, and I often pray that I will react with faith and love towards my God when they come my way. I pray that I am not the seed who fell on the rocky places. (Matthew 13:20-22) And I pray that I have the resolve of Job. (Job 2:10)Mostly, I thank God for everything I have; AND for everything I don't have.
Anyway, thanks to you both for your well wishes.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2011,14:38) Don't I know it, Wm. I spent the first 36 years of my life in Davenport, Iowa. I don't envy you or Tim right now.
I remember one winter when the sun didn't break through the clouds in 92 days! I'm sorry to hear about your many trials. I have not had any to speak of in the last three years. But I'm aware that bad things happen in this world, and I often pray that I will react with faith and love towards my God when they come my way. I pray that I am not the seed who fell on the rocky places. (Matthew 13:20-22) And I pray that I have the resolve of Job. (Job 2:10)Mostly, I thank God for everything I have; AND for everything I don't have.
Anyway, thanks to you both for your well wishes.
I wish you well also and I sense your trials have given you wisdom. God Bless my friend!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2011,08:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 30 2011,10:20) But you are not looking at the whole picture Mike.
I'm completely happy with my “whole picture”, Tim.3 years ago, I was a hopelessly addicted, drug addled atheist, broke and living on the streets. Then I asked a God I never believed in for help.
3 years later, and here I am, in sunny California right now with my 10 year old son and his two buddies, enjoying a week of vacation.
I went from not having a quarter in my pocket to holding down a decent job, buying a car, paying back my past debts, saving a little cash, giving to the poor, and being able to do wholesome, non-drug and alcohol related things with my boy.
That's what faith did for me, Tim. Results may vary.
(Gotta go. We're off to Medieval Times now, to enjoy a dinner show. Then it's off to Knott's Berry Farm for the next two days. I'll come back to work more tired than when I left!
)peace,
mike
Hello Mike,First off let me offer my condolences for your addiction, after reading this post it brought more to light then you know.
When one is an addict (do not know the years of your addiction) many spirits surround you, ones that you may not even know about now, that are still deep rooted and that have not been healed or removed.
I can easily confess, that I am not fully at peace with ones that regard humanity as nothing no matter what sex or gender.
So please accept my apologies, the life you lead most assuredly caused some physical or mental problems. I will be more tolerant of your comments and have a better understanding.
Once again my apologies,
PrincessQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,03:29) Atheists, What is your end game?
Christians are called to spread the gospel to non-believers; but what's in it for you?
I'll let Steven Weinberg answer that one:Quote With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. Your religion makes the world a worse place.
To name a few inconveniences from over the years:
Holy Wars
The Inquisition
Witch Trials
Killing (or mutilating) “evil” children
Cult suicides
Suicide terrorism
Slavery
Racism
etc.In more recent years, the effects are more subtle but no less detrimental. Those of us who are not religionists are fighting for a more reasonable, sane society.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 03 2012,10:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,03:29) Atheists, What is your end game?
Christians are called to spread the gospel to non-believers; but what's in it for you?
I'll let Steven Weinberg answer that one:Quote With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. Your religion makes the world a worse place.
To name a few inconveniences from over the years:
Holy Wars
The Inquisition
Witch Trials
Killing (or mutilating) “evil” children
Cult suicides
Suicide terrorism
Slavery
Racism
etc.In more recent years, the effects are more subtle but no less detrimental. Those of us who are not religionists are fighting for a more reasonable, sane society.
But wasn't it evolution that made us the way we are, WIT?If there is no God, then on what exactly do we blame the fact that humans kill in the name of God?
Apparently, evolution made us into beings who believe it's okay to kill in the name of a creator. Why do you suppose evolution would have done such a thing?
whatistrue
Quote In more recent years, the effects are more subtle but no less detrimental. Those of us who are not religionists are fighting for a more reasonable, sane society. and how do you think to achieve this ?? all men are equal under the evolution or is it ?? the best fitted yes ? but then what does it mean ? so again the dilemma does not go away ,for men are not fitted to govern them selves without a back set in corruption.
Pierre
mikeboll64 wrote:
Quote But wasn't it evolution that made us the way we are, WIT? Repeat after me:
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.OK. Now read very carefully:
'Evolution' is not a force. It's not a sentient being. It's a theoretical description of biological history. It does not 'make' us do anything. It does not have a purpose or a plan. It is not the same thing as 'God'.
mikeboll64 wrote:
Quote If there is no God, then on what exactly do we blame the fact that humans kill in the name of God? Bad ideas. Ignorance. Fear of the 'other'. In other words, religion.
Are you suggesting that people who kill in the name of God legitimize their religion?
mikeboll64 wrote:
Quote Apparently, evolution made us into beings who believe it's okay to kill in the name of a creator. Why do you suppose evolution would have done such a thing? Let's repeat the exercise from above:
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.
'Evolution' is not the same thing as 'God'.We are what we are as a result of how human society has developed. Interestingly enough, as we continue to advance in knowledge and maturity, the influence of religion is fading. We are less violent, less bigoted, less anti-social in general as a result of us being less prone to superstition and ancient tribal, (i.e. religious cult), mentalities. If you disagree, try being an African man in Europe or America 200 years ago, or a non-Roman 2000 years ago, or just about anybody on the planet 10000 years ago.
As religious influences decrease, social cooperation continues to blossom.
Why do humans practice religion at all, you might ask. Because when you don't know why the sun comes up, or why the ground shakes from time to time, or why clouds can suddenly funnel to the ground and tear up everything in their path, you are likely to be afraid of, and in awe of, these “big forces”. And just like kids who can't explain some advanced concept, people in that situation are likely to make up stories for why things are the way they are. Over time those stories become more intricate, and eventually you have a few dominant stories that a large swath of the population believes. It's called the history of religion. You should look into it.
whatis true
Quote We are what we are as a result of how human society has developed. Interestingly enough, as we continue to advance in knowledge and maturity, the influence of religion is fading. We are less violent, less bigoted, less anti-social in general as a result of us being less prone to superstition and ancient tribal, (i.e. religious cult), mentalities. If you disagree, try being an African man in Europe or America 200 years ago, or a non-Roman 2000 years ago, or just about anybody on the planet 10000 years ago. this is an illusion ,not all people are alike this is what makes the difference ,so your theory is dead,
men have add their glory in time but like always greed ,corruption as been the most destructive element in men's society this as not changed,and so prove the inability of men to govern them selves,
so your dream of a better world without God looks doomed,
Pierre
terraricca,
I am not talking about what someday will happen. I am talking about what's already happening.
Fact #1: The world is far less religious than it was 2000 years ago.
Fact #2: The world is far less violent than it was 2000 years ago.My contention is that that is not a coincidence.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 05 2012,14:16) terraricca, I am not talking about what someday will happen. I am talking about what's already happening.
Fact #1: The world is far less religious than it was 2000 years ago.
Fact #2: The world is far less violent than it was 2000 years ago.My contention is that that is not a coincidence.
WhatIsTrueQuote Fact #1: The world is far less religious than it was 2000 years ago.
Fact #2: The world is far less violent than it was 2000 years ago.fact #1)it is depend what you call religious ,believing in the true God you right meanly only some Israelite were believing it ,
but almost all men believed in some kind of god or supreme master ,today nothing as change to me anyway some of the gods have been renamed and switch around ,.
fact # 2) there is no change it is the same underneath only above the tables it looks like it their is nothing going on,
but only a spark and it would be quickly flame into a main war,Pierre
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 05 2012,07:16) terraricca, I am not talking about what someday will happen. I am talking about what's already happening.
Fact #1: The world is far less religious than it was 2000 years ago.
Fact #2: The world is far less violent than it was 2000 years ago.My contention is that that is not a coincidence.
Fact #3 The world is far more permissive of crime, violent or nonviolentFact #4 because of this decline in Morality it is a fact that the majority of people especially women of europe are medicating to cope and suicide is at its highest rate ever all over the world from teens to seniors.
Violence is often a byproduct of purpose, depression and permissiveness is mostly the byproduct of hopelessness
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 03 2012,22:12) We are what we are as a result of how human society has developed.
Actually, according to you, we are as a result of how human beings have EVOLVED.WHY do you suppose we EVOLVED into beings who mostly believe in a creator, and are willing to kill or be killed in the name of said creator?
Do you suppose dogs and apes believe in a creator when they can't explain earthquakes, sunrises and tornados? Why us? Oh, that's right; we've evolved into story tellers – as if that trait is useful for survival.
WIT, I was just humoring you anyway. Do you seriously think all the “good people” who do “evil things” do it because of religion?
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 03 2012,22:12) 'Evolution' is not a force. It's not a sentient being. It's a theoretical description of biological history. It does not 'make' us do anything. It does not have a purpose or a plan. It is not the same thing as 'God'.
And each mutation is thought to take thousands, maybe even millions of years?I wonder about Darwin's Galapagos finches, and how this one “evolved” a beak for cracking seeds, and that one “evolved” a beak for dipping into a certain kind of flower.
And you say these things just happened by “chance”? Hmmmmm…………..
How many useless beaks did evolution evolve on these birds before “deciding” on the perfect beak for each food source of each bird? There must be an infinite number of evolved beaks that just didn't quite cut it, right? And with thousands, maybe millions of years of evolution wasted on each useless beak, it must have taken TRILLIONS of years for those finches to evolve the beak that was just right for them, huh? All while the flowers were also evolving into different shapes and sizes. Wow, what a coincidence that the right beak evolved at the same time as the right flower!
Your theory has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 04 2012,14:16) Fact #1: The world is far less religious than it was 2000 years ago.
Fact #2: The world is far less violent than it was 2000 years ago.
Can you post the sources of this info, WIT?Can you post where violent crime in America, for instance, is on a steady decline from, say, 1916?
Because it seems to me that more people in America believed in God in 1916, and there was less violent crime – compared with fewer people in America believing in God today, and much more violent crime.
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