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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,04:38) God gave man dominion over women. He ALSO gave man dominion over the beasts of the field. But does that equate women with dogs, sheep, cows and doves? 
If so, I surely don't see how.
OK. I can see that your reading comprehension needs some work.I said that you put them on the same “playing field”. Essentially, all of them fall under “man's dominion”, do they not? Hence, the same playing field.
And I was right. You truly can't see the problem with that.
Quote I also noticed that TWICE now, you have conveniently IGNORED the parts of my posts where I mentioned that MUCH OF THE WORLD still operates in the “man over women” hierarchy to this very day. No, actually, I quoted that part of your post directly!
From my post:
Quote By the way, based on your logic, the following is a justification for slavery, using your own words: Millions, perhaps billions, of God-fearing [slaves] understand this, and live completely happy and fulfilled lives under this hierarchy. In fact, it is the way it was for THOUSANDS of years, UNTIL JUST RECENTLY IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES. And it is STILL the way it is in MANY parts of the world.
How could you turn that into me trying to dodge your ridiculous point?
(I am beginning to doubt your self-proclaimed “above average intelligence”.)
Quote WIT, what year were women allowed to vote in the USA? Are you getting my point here? The fact that SOME people in America decided that women and men are exact equals, IN THE LAST 100 YEARS, really holds no sway over me.
What's your point? Less than fifty years ago, people also became far less tolerant of racism. Are you suggesting that these anti-racist sentiments amount to nothing more than modern day PC crap?
Actually, given your other views, I wouldn't be surprised if you're perfectly fine with racism.
Quote Women were created FOR men, pure and simple. So, you never answered my question.
Is it okay to beat your woman when you are training her?
Quote As far as slavery, I don't remember ever saying it was wrong. My mistake. I thought that you were an ethical person.
I started my contribution to this discussion back on January 3rd by quoting Steven Weinberg:
With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
So far you have admitted to:
1. Being willing to sacrifice your own child
2. Sexism
3. Being okay with slaveryThe only question that remains is whether you held these opinions before your conversion.
So, were you pro-slavery, pro-sexism, and pro- human sacrifice before you got “saved”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,08:31) WIT, You are calling me childish while YOU'RE the one throwing the tantrum.
Actually, Tim wrote the post your responding to. This is the second time that you have confused the two of us.But, since you addressed this to me, I did want to pick up on one of your points.
Quote If you cannot tell the difference between the 10 commandments that were for all time, and the covenant directed only at the Israelites who were coming into a nation of their own – short lived as it was – then how can I help you? Show me where the ten commandments were addressed to all people of all times in contrast to the rest of the law. Where does it say that in the bible, anywhere?
Hi WIT, I can answer that for you.
Were the 10 commandments done away with? Of course NOT!
Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”,
which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God,
to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and
thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.In the mount of transfiguration we find three people who illustrate these three.
Moses: The Commandments; “TEN” Old, “TWO” New.
Elijah: The Judgments; rewards and punishments.
Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues
(contained in ordinances), and done away with them.
Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.God bless
Ed J
PS. 10-2 Has “Fractal” counterparts:
The tribes: 10 Northern and 2 SouthernQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,08:54) Quote (princess @ Jan. 20 2012,20:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:36) Princess, Your last two posts are nonsensical gibberish, and really unworthy of a response from me.
No Mike, that is just your way of not facing the truth. No one can change that but you.
Really Princess?The 10 commandments are a falsehood because they are the second copy?
This is the kind of nonsense you hope people will take seriously?
This is what happens when you dismiss people based on gender bias.Did you read the passage that she referenced?
Exodus 34:10-27:
And He said: “Behold, I make a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation; and all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the LORD. For it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But (1)you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods.
“(2)You shall make no molded gods for yourselves.
“(3)The Feast of Unleavened Bread you shall keep. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, in the appointed time of the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.
“(4)All that open the womb are Mine, and every male firstborn among your livestock, whether ox or sheep. But the firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb. And if you will not redeem him, then you shall break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.
“And none shall appear before Me empty-handed.
“(5)Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; in plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
“(6)And you shall observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.
“(7)Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year.
“(8)You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven, nor shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left until morning.
“(9)The first of the firstfruits of your land you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God. (10)You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.That's the second version of the ten commandments. Is it for all people for all times? Do you follow it? Or do you follow the ones from the broken tablets?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:53) Princess, I am in the best mental and spiritual condition of my life. I do not “seek” any woman, because my God has filled any perceived hole I might have once thought I NEEDED a woman to fill. Nor would I ever seek help so I could be considered more acceptable to you or Stuart or WIT.
The world is SUPPOSED to hate me if I'm doing it right. Go check out this link if you think I just imagined this “pms” stuff. There are PAGES upon PAGES of info and jokes about this REAL issue many women deal with.
Half of these videos, from what I can see, are women poking fun at themselves about pms. Thank God SOME people have a sense of self-depreciating humor.
No Mike your not, there are underlying issues you need to address, the first one is to realize I don't hate you and why would I waste precious time researching a subject I am well acquantied with.Is it that you do not understand the matter, perhaps you should refrain from the jokes and study the matter a bit more serious to understand the dynamics.
Your God has supposedly created a woman for you to be your helper, but you are fighting against the very word of God by using Him to fill the void.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 21 2012,14:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,08:54) Quote (princess @ Jan. 20 2012,20:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:36) Princess, Your last two posts are nonsensical gibberish, and really unworthy of a response from me.
No Mike, that is just your way of not facing the truth. No one can change that but you.
Really Princess?The 10 commandments are a falsehood because they are the second copy?
This is the kind of nonsense you hope people will take seriously?
This is what happens when you dismiss people based on gender bias.Did you read the passage that she referenced?
Exodus 34:10-27:
And He said: “Behold, I make a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation; and all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the LORD. For it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But (1)you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods.
“(2)You shall make no molded gods for yourselves.
“(3)The Feast of Unleavened Bread you shall keep. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, in the appointed time of the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.
“(4)All that open the womb are Mine, and every male firstborn among your livestock, whether ox or sheep. But the firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb. And if you will not redeem him, then you shall break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.
“And none shall appear before Me empty-handed.
“(5)Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; in plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
“(6)And you shall observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.
“(7)Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year.
“(8)You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven, nor shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left until morning.
“(9)The first of the firstfruits of your land you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God. (10)You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.That's the second version of the ten commandments. Is it for all people for all times? Do you follow it? Or do you follow the ones from the broken tablets?
Hi WIT,Why is't important to understand the seven feasts of God? Because in them is the recording of the Gospel:
1. The Passover (Pesach) – Nisan 14-15 (Leviticus 23:5)…………………..Passover is the feast of (יה) YÄ's Salvation.
2. Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi) – Nisan 15-22 (Levi.23:6)……….Unleavened Bread is Jesus, the bread of life.
3. First Fruits (Yom Habikkurim) – Nisan 16-17 (Leviticus 23:11)……….First Fruits is resurrection or victory over death.
4. Pentecost (Shavu’ot) – Sivan 6-7 (Leviticus 23:16)………………………..Pentecost is God’s spirit given to indwell in man.
5. Trumpets (Yom Teru’ah) – Tishri 1 (Leviticus 23:24)……………………….Trumpets is our proclamation of liberty through faith.
6. Atonement (Yom Kippur) – Tishri 10 (Leviticus 23:27)…………………….is Jesus’ atoning sacrifice for our sins upon (†) a cross.
7. Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) – Tishri 15-22 (Lev.23:34)…………….is the Feast of our ingathering unto The LORD our GOD.Chanaukah symbolizes repentance, which is the rededication of life unto the LORD our GOD (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm).
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,09:47) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 20 2012,15:40) And men have enough to contend with, right, what with women being so impossible due to their menstrual cycles and everything.
Those cycles sure bring out the worst in some of them!Stu, you can pretend to be all valiant and P.C. if you want to, but there is a running gag about pms in almost every romantic comedy made in America.
So pretend like it doesn't happen if you want. As for me, I will choose to live in the real world.
Let me know when you will be putting that choice into action.Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,09:53) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,16:19) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,09:05) stu this is the solution for the sociopath and others alike ;
MT 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
MT 22:38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
MK 7:8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
MK 7:9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
MK 10:5 But Jesus said to them, “ Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
MK 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”
Mk 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’MK 12:31 “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
JN 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
JN 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.but it is not easily done it takes courage to stand out of the crowd ,and some times alone
Pierre
I think you have no idea what the causes and motives of sociopathic behaviour are. Whether or not modern approaches are effective, if we followed your recipe we would be making the world more dangerous. But that is what you get when you place the ignorant assertions of Bronze Age and early Iron Age Palestinians above modern, science-based clinical practice.Stuart
stu the modern manif we put all the scientifically world and the elites of this world together under one roof
they would make sure that the rest of the world burns up ,leaving them save and sound ,
Pierre
terraricca the Bronze Age / early Iron Age man.I realise that individuals can grasp hold of christianity as a substitute addiction for alcoholism, but can you give any example of a problem facing humanity generally that has actually been solved by application of the biblical principles you outlined earlier?
Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,22:52) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,09:53) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,16:19) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,09:05) stu this is the solution for the sociopath and others alike ;
MT 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
MT 22:38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
MK 7:8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
MK 7:9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
MK 10:5 But Jesus said to them, “ Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
MK 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”
Mk 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’MK 12:31 “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
JN 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
JN 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.but it is not easily done it takes courage to stand out of the crowd ,and some times alone
Pierre
I think you have no idea what the causes and motives of sociopathic behaviour are. Whether or not modern approaches are effective, if we followed your recipe we would be making the world more dangerous. But that is what you get when you place the ignorant assertions of Bronze Age and early Iron Age Palestinians above modern, science-based clinical practice.Stuart
stu the modern manif we put all the scientifically world and the elites of this world together under one roof
they would make sure that the rest of the world burns up ,leaving them save and sound ,
Pierre
terraricca the Bronze Age / early Iron Age man.I realise that individuals can grasp hold of christianity as a substitute addiction for alcoholism, but can you give any example of a problem facing humanity generally that has actually been solved by application of the biblical principles you outlined earlier?
Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be?
Stuart
stuanswer ;get rid of the sociopaths,the people that love them selves above all other first and in excess,and also stop to preach evolution crap so that the abuses of others for a profit can stop
and so the love of God can enter mans heart ,
but this is over your head anyway
Pierre
princess
Quote Your God has supposedly created a woman for you to be your helper, but you are fighting against the very word of God by using Him to fill the void. this is a low shut,but think it over we all pick our battles according to our needs ,some needs men,some needs women ,some are perverts,but some looking for the truth of God to fill a void or need ,witch is the better one you tell me ,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,16:10) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,22:52) Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be? Stuart
stuanswer ;get rid of the sociopaths,the people that love them selves above all other first and in excess,and also stop to preach evolution crap so that the abuses of others for a profit can stop
and so the love of God can enter mans heart ,
but this is over your head anyway
Pierre
So should I take it that you cannot think of a single problem that has been solved by application of the verses that you claimed should solve the problem of sociopathic behaviour?Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem?
And science, including evolution by natural selection, has transformed our lives on a vast scale in the past 200 years, not least of which is the theory that led to the technology you are currently using to communicate with others here.
Can you think of any problem already universally solved by application of any of the verses in your scripture?
Stuart
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:31) WIT, You are calling me childish while YOU'RE the one throwing the tantrum.
If you cannot tell the difference between the 10 commandments that were for all time, and the covenant directed only at the Israelites who were coming into a nation of their own – short lived as it was – then how can I help you?
When the man asked Jesus what he could do to be saved, and told Jesus that he had kept all of the commandments, did Jesus ask if he had killed any pagan Romans lately?
Or did he instead point out the two of the commandments that were the most important, and add that the man should sell what he had and give to the poor?
The laws governing the actions of Israelites when they were in charge of their own land went away when Hezekiah went away.
If you can't find a scripture where anyone since Hezekiah was asked to kill or torture or enslave someone else, then give it up.
Your ad hominems are not serving their intended purpose, because it matters not to me whether you think I'm childish. In fact, Jesus said I must accept the Kingdom of God like a child – so I'm cool with being “childish”.
Hi Mike,Actually it was me that you were referring to, not WIT.
But it is easy to see how you have difficulty understanding plain language when you have to think everything means something besides what it says.
You said,Quote If you cannot tell the difference between the 10 commandments that were for all time, and the covenant directed only at the Israelites who were coming into a nation of their own – short lived as it was – then how can I help you? Were those the ones that command us not to boil a lamb in it's mother's milk?
Quote
Or did he instead point out the two of the commandments that were the most important, and add that the man should sell what he had and give to the poor?He didn't say forget all the other commandments, He merely added two more. Have you sold everything that you have and given it to the poor yet?
Quote
The laws governing the actions of Israelites when they were in charge of their own land went away when Hezekiah went away.If you can't find a scripture where anyone since Hezekiah was asked to kill or torture or enslave someone else, then give it up.
Well Jesus said Luke19:27 “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
Sure He used a parable to say it, but he said everything in a parable. Are you now going to tell me that Jesus did not mean anything that he said in a parable? Or just go back to your old, ” he wasn't talking to me personally” nonsense.
Tim
Quote (princess @ Jan. 21 2012,13:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:36) Princess, Your last two posts are nonsensical gibberish, and really unworthy of a response from me.
No Mike, that is just your way of not facing the truth. No one can change that but you.
Hi Princess,Your gibberish made more sense than Mike's gibberish.
Tim
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:31) Your ad hominems are not serving their intended purpose, because it matters not to me whether you think I'm childish. In fact, Jesus said I must accept the Kingdom of God like a child – so I'm cool with being “childish”.
Hi Mike,
I too am cool with you being childish .
The only problem is that it is extremely difficult for an adult to explain complex ideas to a child.
I need to learn how to keep it simpler.
TimQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,16:17) princess Quote Your God has supposedly created a woman for you to be your helper, but you are fighting against the very word of God by using Him to fill the void. this is a low shut,but think it over we all pick our battles according to our needs ,some needs men,some needs women ,some are perverts,but some looking for the truth of God to fill a void or need ,witch is the better one you tell me ,
Pierre
T,Then one should choose wisely on what fills the void. Which is easily known due to it is measured by how much peace you have within your heart.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 20 2012,21:37) That's the second version of the ten commandments.
WIT, you and Princess are mistaken.God originally spoke what we all know as “the ten commandments” to the whole congregation of people in Ex 20. Then Moses alone approached, and God gave him many more laws that aren't to be confused with the ten commandments.
For many chapters, God gave Moses laws to write down himself. Chapter 23 contains most of the things WIT and Princess claim to be “the second ten commandments”. And chapter 24 has Moses verbally relaying all these many laws (not ten of them) to the Israelites. He then went to work writing these laws down (not on stone). 25:15 has Moses setting off up the mountain to talk with God more.
Chapters 25-31 contain many more laws God gave to Moses on the mountain. 31:18 tells how God inscribed the “tablets of the testimony” with His own hand.
One these tablets were only the ten words (traditionally “commandments”) that God had originally spoken to all of the Israelites in chapter 20.
In 32:19, Moses broke those tablets.
In chapter 34, God had Moses chisel out two more tablets of stone, and come back up the mountain. Moses was there for 40 days again, and God undoubtedly refreshed Moses' mind with the many things He told him the first 40 days he was on the mountain.
In 34:27, when God tells Moses to write down the words of the covenant, are we to now assume that the pages of instructions and laws God gave Moses the first time on the mountain were discarded – and reduced to only these ten things listed in verses 13-26, as WIT and Princess have suggested? Of course not.
Ex 34:1
The LORD said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.We can see that God, not Moses, was the One who wrote on the stone tablets again – just like He did the first time. Moses didn't write any laws or decrees on stone.
Ex 34
27 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.Moses wrote down the many laws and decrees, of which only ten are re-mentioned in chapter 34. The word “he”, which I bolded and supersized above, refers to what GOD re-wrote on the new tablets – not to the many things God commanded Moses to write. God re-wrote the original ten words of the testimony – the words God spoke in the hearing of all the Israelites, ie: the ten commandments.
Deuteronomy 4
11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.You'll notice here that the words God wrote (twice) on the tablets are only the ten commandments that God Himself DECLARED to the Israelites in their own hearing. Those ten words are not to be confused with the many “decrees and laws” that Moses was instructed to write down on scrolls, not stone.
Deuteronomy 5
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:6 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 “You shall have no other gods before me.
8 “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
17 “You shall not murder.
18 “You shall not commit adultery.
19 “You shall not steal.
20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
22 These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.
Again, you can see the ten words ( and “nothing more”) that God wrote on the tablets of stone.
Deuteronomy 9
10 The LORD gave me two stone tablets inscribed by the finger of God. On them were all the commandments the LORD proclaimed to you on the mountain out of the fire, on the day of the assembly.
11 At the end of the forty days and forty nights, the LORD gave me the two stone tablets, the tablets of the covenant.15 So I turned and went down from the mountain……… And the two tablets of the covenant were in my hands.
16 When I looked, I saw that you had sinned against the LORD your God…………
17 So I took the two tablets and threw them out of my hands, breaking them to pieces before your eyes.
Deuteronomy 10
1 At that time the LORD said to me, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones and come up to me on the mountain. Also make a wooden chest. 2 I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. Then you are to put them in the chest.”
3 So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets
like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands. 4 The LORD wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the LORD gave them to me. 5 Then I came back down the mountain and put the tablets in the ark I had made, as the LORD commanded me, and they are there now.So you see that there is only one set of commandments traditionally called “the ten commandments”.
It is an unfortunate for you guys that Moses happened to list in chapter 34 only ten of the hundreds of laws and instructions God gave to Moses over the course of the first 40 days on the mountain. I can see how this confused you into thinking there were two different versions of “the ten words” that God wrote on the tablet. I hope you can see now that there weren't.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2012,05:50) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,16:10) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,22:52) Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be? Stuart
stuanswer ;get rid of the sociopaths,the people that love them selves above all other first and in excess,and also stop to preach evolution crap so that the abuses of others for a profit can stop
and so the love of God can enter mans heart ,
but this is over your head anyway
Pierre
So should I take it that you cannot think of a single problem that has been solved by application of the verses that you claimed should solve the problem of sociopathic behaviour?Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem?
And science, including evolution by natural selection, has transformed our lives on a vast scale in the past 200 years, not least of which is the theory that led to the technology you are currently using to communicate with others here.
Can you think of any problem already universally solved by application of any of the verses in your scripture?
Stuart
stuQuote Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem? well the scriptures are still teaching the truth of God ,and so brings the best out of people,
but we both know ;if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem ;
and only God of the scriptures as the solution.
Pierre
Quote So you see that there is only one set of commandments traditionally called “the ten commandments”. Mike why are you defending the traditions of man over the teachings of your God?
Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 21 2012,06:06) Quote (princess @ Jan. 21 2012,13:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:36) Princess, Your last two posts are nonsensical gibberish, and really unworthy of a response from me.
No Mike, that is just your way of not facing the truth. No one can change that but you.
Hi Princess,Your gibberish made more sense than Mike's gibberish.
Tim
Do you still think that – now that I've taken 2 hours out of my life to explain the ten words to you guys?Listen folks, this thread it taking too much of my time. There are Christians on the other section that I would rather spend my time helping than you guys who don't even believe in God.
Jesus said that he came first to the lost ones of Israel, and not the Gentiles. I must follow that teaching, because I am wasting too much time fielding nonsense over here.
Stuart, if it's not too much to ask, would you explain to Princess that I do have an ex-girlfriend named Elizabeth that is the mother of my son? If you'll remember, she was looking over my shoulder the first time we talked over a year ago, and she made her own post to you asking how “love” evolved, and you two talked briefly.
I only ask because Princess, in all her humility, has suggested I've made this ex-girlfriend up in some desperate attempt to impress her – for some odd reason.
WIT, I brought up the fact that men have dominated woman for the majority of human existence, and that they still do in MANY cultures in our world. I have brought up that it was less than a 100 years ago that women were even allowed to vote in America, and that “women's equality” is a most recent development, and only in a few cultures in the world.
Then I mentioned that you kept avoiding this part of my post, to which you replied: No, actually, I quoted that part of your post directly!
From my post:
Quote
By the way, based on your logic, the following is a justification for slavery, using your own words:Millions, perhaps billions, of God-fearing [slaves] understand this, and live completely happy and fulfilled lives under this hierarchy. In fact, it is the way it was for THOUSANDS of years, UNTIL JUST RECENTLY IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES. And it is STILL the way it is in MANY parts of the world.
I still don't understand how accusing me of justifying slavery actually addresses the point I made?You are wonderfully adept at these kinds of slants and diversions, and I feel like talking to you is a waste of my time. You're not really after truth, but instead seem to be on a mission to belittle others and show how smart you are by being witty.
I have no time for games like that…………sorry.
Tim, I hope you come back to your first love.
Princess, well…………you know how I feel about you. What I posted to you last night is how I truly feel about you. You are also a waste of my time.
Guys, while reading WIT's quote of the “second version of the ten commandments” last night, a phrase jumped right out at me and hit me hard: Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst.
I feel you guys are a snare in my midst. Princess will remember how I was saddened to find out she was not a believer in the Hebrew God a few months ago. Likely she'll remember me counseling her that if she didn't spend so much time talking with atheists, this might not have happened. And then I turned right around and did the same thing! I've gotten myself unequally yoked in this thread with 5 non Christians. Paul warned against doing such a thing, and even though it took a while for it to sink into my thick head, I am now aware of what I've done, and will now heed his warning.
To All, this discussion started when the claim was made that God commands His followers to kill and torture and enslave others. It was said that most of the brutalities done on this earth were the direct results of people only doing what God has commanded them to do.
I have offered a challenge to you guys to show me were God has commanded ANYONE in the last 3000 years to kill, torture, or enslave any other person.
And instead of being able to list one single scripture in which this is the case, you are bringing up nonsense like the “two versions of the ten commandments”, and taking many potshots at me for believing things the way God set them up.
Ed, if any of these guys ever come up with a scripture like the one I'm asking for, let me know on a different thread please. Because I am leaving this one for the ones I enjoy.
Asana, you'll remember me saying to you recently how I often wish I never joined this thread, right?
I bring that up so you all know that I'm not “running away” from anything you've said. I just have better things to do with my life than defend the scripture to people who think there are “two versions of the ten commandments”.
Adios,
mikeQuote (princess @ Jan. 21 2012,09:47) Quote So you see that there is only one set of commandments traditionally called “the ten commandments”. Mike why are you defending the traditions of man over the teachings of your God?
They are traditionally called “the ten commandments”, Princess. In Hebrew, they are called “the ten words”. None of that changes the fact that the ORIGINAL “ten words” are the SAME “ten words” that have ALWAYS BEEN the “ten words”.See? This is why I must leave this thread. I don't have time for this kind of absent-minded nonsense. Like I said, you are a waste of my time.
Goodbye Princess
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