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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,09:29) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:17) perhaps your own statements might give you a clue as to why non-deluded people sometimes have problems with your fantasy assertions: “Christians are called to spread the gospel to non-believers“
But I didn't come to an atheist site looking for you. Why did you come here to ridicule me?
I don't mean to ridicule you. But I think, given that you are full of the ideals of imposing your nonsense fantasy worldview on others, that perhaps you should be prepared to be offended if others wish to criticise if for the absurdity that it is.My original motive here was to correct some of the ridiculous claims about science that t8 posted a long time ago. But it is fascinating to learn about how humans come to believe in nonsense, and to defend those nonsense beliefs so earnestly.
I think in your case you just don't know very much about the arguments against your views. You are not in a very strong position to defend your views because of that.
You posted in the skeptics section. Why did you do that if you weren't looking for skepticism?
Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,16:22) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,08:53) If there is no God, then there is no good and bad,
I don't believe that.Stuart
stuyou have to believe it ,you have no choice,just as your big bang story,one goes with the other
Pierre
Really. Stop for a minute. Think. So many christians claim that the US is build on some kind of synthesis of christian values (it was originally built on the premise that a religious sect was not allowed to persecute others in Europe, so it thought of America as a land of hope that would allow it to impose their religion on others – Jefferson must have come as a huge disappointment to them).But consider this: The rate of imprisonment of atheists in the US is 0.23%. The rate of non-belief in the population is formally surveyed at 12%, and is more likely 25% or more, given the stigma that comes with admitting you don't believe in celestial conspiracy theories of Imaginary Friends in some quarters.
So, if atheists don't believe good and bad exist, how is it that American non-believers are able to conform to the legal definitions of good and bad more effectively than the religious?
Stuart
Stu, believing in good and bad is different to doing good and bad.
Many Atheists deny that good and bad exist even though they obviously live by the principle of it's/their existence.Like Atheists deny that God is real, and yet instinctively know that something cannot come from nothing.
The point is that they preach the opposite of what they do much of the time.
And the conclusion was “confusion”.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,09:40) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,09:22) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,08:53) If there is no God, then there is no good and bad,
I don't believe that.Stuart
Most Atheists I have heard do believe that there is no such thing. Good to see that you believe that. Pity you cannot see from which source it came. Again you likely boil it down to some lame evolutionary process which neither knows the difference between good and bad.
Can you please name an atheist who doesn't believe good and bad exist?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:09) Stu, believing in good and bad is different to doing good and bad.
Many Atheists deny that good and bad exist even though they obviously live by the principle of it's/their existence.
So the principle doesn't exist, but they live by the principle.t8 logic at its best.
Still, at least you didn't indulge in your usual false analogy.
Well done!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:59) But it is fascinating to learn about how humans come to believe in nonsense, and to defend those nonsense beliefs so earnestly.
And where is your scientific proof that what we believe in is nonsense?Prove to me that God did not create everything in existence. Can you do that, Stu?
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:52) How about you try and work out how I could believe in good and bad and an evolutionary basis for it, and especially how a tendency to killing others could be a very poor adaptation for survival.
Instead of me “working it out”, as if I know your mind; why not just tell me?Tell me how, in an overpopulated, overpolluted world where species go extinct all the time, it would be more suited to evolution to NOT kill some of these others who are breathing your air.
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,09:59) You posted in the skeptics section. Why did you do that if you weren't looking for skepticism? Stuart
Can a person not say something and not have the response be an automatic sceptical answer. Coz that shows an unthinking person, one who disregards all opposing views and sticks with their particular view no matter what.We usually call such people bigots, not sceptics.
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,10:11) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:09) Stu, believing in good and bad is different to doing good and bad.
Many Atheists deny that good and bad exist even though they obviously live by the principle of it's/their existence.
So the principle doesn't exist, but they live by the principle.t8 logic at its best.
Still, at least you didn't indulge in your usual false analogy.
Well done!
Stuart
Surely your IQ is greater than what you demonstrate here.The logic is not mine, I am spelling it out as it is for Atheists who do not believe in good and bad.
Man, I overestimate you too many times.
Will try to keep it more simple and give greater explanation in case you can't see it again.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:14) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:59) But it is fascinating to learn about how humans come to believe in nonsense, and to defend those nonsense beliefs so earnestly.
And where is your scientific proof that what we believe in is nonsense?
There is no such thing as scientific proof. But anyway, you believe a man walked again after he was judicially executed by the Romans. The way science works most often is that you make an hypothesis then test it. If none of the evidence contradicts the hypothesis and all the evidence supports it then you make a provisional conclusion, which of course is subject to the discovery of further unambiguous evidence.In this case the scientific theory is that humans do not walk again after successful judicial execution, and there is no evidence against that, not even an eyewitness account. So, that is about as close to scientifically “proved” as you are going to get. However, you would expect the alleged exodus to have left extensive evidence behind; archeologists know what they are looking for in regards to temporary occupation of an area, but there is no evidence for that. There is no evidence for a global flood, and Antarctic ice cores demonstrate no such flood at any time in the history of our species. There never was a time of just two humans, such a thing is a biological impossibility and is contradicted by overwhelming evidence. The earth did not exist before light.
Um, what else? Snakes and donkeys don't talk; there is no evidence for the existence of unicorns if you want to take the KJV literally; there almost certainly never was a slaughter of the innocents as described in the gospels; Roman censuses never required ancient Palestinians to return to the city of birth; Herod's dates in the gospels are almost certainly wrong; the Tower of Babel model of language evolution does not match what can be observed about language; you could not have seen the ancient Kingdom of Tonga which existed in the alleged time of Jesus, from any high mountain in the Middle East; the bible lists at least five different ways of making humans but the evidence says that only one works; humans cannot be born of a mother only because of the genes present in the sperm that control aspects of the production of the placenta.
Please accept my apologies if you disagree with your scripture on any of those points. That is rather a lot of nonsense you apparently believe.
Quote Prove to me that God did not create everything in existence. Can you do that, Stu?
What is a god?Stuart
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:17) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:52) How about you try and work out how I could believe in good and bad and an evolutionary basis for it, and especially how a tendency to killing others could be a very poor adaptation for survival.
Instead of me “working it out”, as if I know your mind; why not just tell me?Tell me how, in an overpopulated, overpolluted world where species go extinct all the time, it would be more suited to evolution to NOT kill some of these others who are breathing your air.
Can you afford the tuition?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:57) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,09:59) You posted in the skeptics section. Why did you do that if you weren't looking for skepticism? Stuart
Can a person not say something and not have the response be an automatic sceptical answer. Coz that shows an unthinking person, one who disregards all opposing views and sticks with their particular view no matter what.We usually call such people bigots, not sceptics.
I considered everything I read on merit, and you will note that in my reply to Wakeup's initial post I treated every comment on its merits.So, if you want to post something that is not obviously nonsense, perhaps the skeptical answer you will get will be in agreement.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,11:00) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,10:11) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,10:09) Stu, believing in good and bad is different to doing good and bad.
Many Atheists deny that good and bad exist even though they obviously live by the principle of it's/their existence.
So the principle doesn't exist, but they live by the principle.t8 logic at its best.
Still, at least you didn't indulge in your usual false analogy.
Well done!
Stuart
Surely your IQ is greater than what you demonstrate here.The logic is not mine, I am spelling it out as it is for Atheists who do not believe in good and bad.
Man, I overestimate you too many times.
Will try to keep it more simple and give greater explanation in case you can't see it again.
I believe it's “simpler”, not “more simple”.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,06:53) Tim it is easy to call a post drivel.
How about proving it.The post is actually full of good points.
If it is drivel to you, then I think it shows that you are indoctrinated to the point where you cannot glean anything except it first follows your belief system.
That is the definition of narrow-mindedness or being full of yourself.
Hi T8,Out of that entire post there were maybe one or two true points. The rest was drivel.
Let's look at a few.
“An atheist can only see what is in the material world, what they can not see under the microscope does not exist.”
That is drivel, an uneducated statement.
No atheist can see a quark, or a black hole, or gravity for that matter under a microscope,
however most reasonable people still believe they exist because the effect of them can be observed.” But strangely enough they try to prove that there is no God by quoting the scriptures”
That is drivel.
I have never heard one atheist try to prove that there is no god by quoting the scriptures.
They may prove the silly nature of the god portrayed in scriptures by quoting them.
Show me a single quote from an atheist that tried to prove no god by quoting scriptures,
or that statement was drivel. You were just making it up.“To them God does not exist”
Well, finally a true statement. That is the definition of an atheist after all.
“Love does not exist,because its invisible(how sad)”
That is drivel and a lie and is so ridiculous, and bigoted that it really doesn't even deserve a comment.
Atheist love their wives, children and neighbors equally as much as any theist, perhaps more so then some who have admitted that they would kill their children if they thought that God told them to.” The 10 commandments is just something that man has dreamed up,but yet they try to live by it”
Another statement that shows that you have no concept whatsoever what an atheist is.
Why would an atheist have any use for the first four commandments which are only God patting himself on the back and stroking his ego.
The rest of the commandments were in practice by civilized human beings long before Moses made them up.I only went through the first couple of lines of pure unadulterated drivel and have run out of time. Wakeup displays the biased, bigoted belief of what an atheist is from what he has learned from his church, not what has been proven to be fact.
T8, you said that “you cannot glean anything except it first follows your belief system.
That is the definition of narrow-mindedness or being full of yourself.”Isn't that the perfect definition of you and Mike?
Tim
tim6
Quote That is drivel, an uneducated statement.
No atheist can see a quark, or a black hole, or gravity for that matter under a microscope,
however most reasonable people still believe they exist because the effect of them can be observed.atheist existed long before Issac Newton and did not believe in anything ,it as been proven that gravity exist and as been explain ,so yes now they believe it,and it was not easy ,
an atheist is a blind man that walks in the dark and everyone around him help him to get around were he want to go ,but most of the time he is scare of his own surrounding, so it need explanation but it as to be suited for a blind man,this is where the difficulty lays for us that can see.(the allegory of the Cave by Socrates, 4 century,bc)
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,06:29) atheist existed long before Issac Newton
Pierre
Of course they did.
Absolutely every child that is born is born an atheist until
someone tells them which god to believe in. And where you are born determines which god you are taught to worship.Tim
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,06:29) an atheist is a blind man that walks in the dark and everyone around him help him to get around were he want to go ,but most of the time he is scare of his own surrounding, so it need explanation but it as to be suited for a blind man,this is where the difficulty lays for us that can see Pierre
Those kinds of silly platitudes are beneath you Pierre.
They are the kind of things that are said by ignorant, uninformed, bigots, which has certainly not been my perception of you.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2011,14:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,06:29) an atheist is a blind man that walks in the dark and everyone around him help him to get around were he want to go ,but most of the time he is scare of his own surrounding, so it need explanation but it as to be suited for a blind man,this is where the difficulty lays for us that can see Pierre
Those kinds of silly platitudes are beneath you Pierre.
They are the kind of things that are said by ignorant, uninformed, bigots, which has certainly not been my perception of you.Tim
timyou should have read;; the allegory of the cave ;;of Socrates
Pierre
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2011,13:51) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,06:29) atheist existed long before Issac Newton
Pierre
Of course they did.
Absolutely every child that is born is born an atheist until
someone tells them which god to believe in. And where you are born determines which god you are taught to worship.Tim
tim6Quote Absolutely every child that is born is born an atheist until
first this is ridicule,then I am exceptional,because I was miss treated ,abused and as always believed in God in the most inner part of me ,my father was a atheist ,as far that i know sins my tender age of two,i was a believer in God ,
Pierre
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,07:22) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2011,14:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,06:29) an atheist is a blind man that walks in the dark and everyone around him help him to get around were he want to go ,but most of the time he is scare of his own surrounding, so it need explanation but it as to be suited for a blind man,this is where the difficulty lays for us that can see Pierre
Those kinds of silly platitudes are beneath you Pierre.
They are the kind of things that are said by ignorant, uninformed, bigots, which has certainly not been my perception of you.Tim
timyou should have read;; the allegory of the cave ;;of Socrates
Pierre
You seem to have this view that you've got special powers that others don't have, as if atheists are blind and you have vision, and when you use the word “green” you are only mocked because those blind atheists can't even know what green could mean.But the problem is that when it boils down to basics, you don't have experiences that are any different to anyone else. You have been told about this god idea, formed your own concept of what it is, and now you interpret your common human experiences in terms of this fantasy notion of a conspiracy of Imaginary Friends. People on the Atikins diet do exactly the same thing: every little cough or feeling of unease they have is due to one thing: consumption of carbohydrates. This is a very human, pattern-seeking response to the world, but one that has the zealot shutting himself off from the wider picture. Ironically it is not the non-zealot that is blind, but actually the zealot!
So you are more like the psychic than the only man with colour vision: you believe you have special powers to see that atheists don't, but actually you are unable to give any particular insights at all. You can't express different experiences, all you are doing is interpreting them in terms of woo. I'm sure I could interpret what I experience in those terms too, I can understand how you might view the world that way, but you can't show me the god you claim to be behind it, the book that tells you about this god is wrong on so many counts and is clearly just another ancient mythology, and if we had to have a god story as a creation myth then the Judeo-christian god is not a very good match for the universe anyway.
You'll understand our skepticism, I'm sure.
Stuart
Stuart
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