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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2012,10:02) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 10 2012,04:30) I think that you have it all wrong Mike. Jesus never “dumbed down” anyting to make it easier to understand.
Tim
I believe you are wrong, Tim. Imagine God telling a prophet about creation 100 years ago. Would it have done God any good to speak of sub-atomic particles, DNA, string theory or whatever – to a person who would have no idea what He was talking about?Now, you are asking about the firmament between the waters, right? Is there water below us at any given time? Yes. Is there water above us at any given time? Yes. The firmament (sky) is where we breathe above the waters of the sea and below the waters in the clouds, I guess.
When God flooded the earth, He not only caused the waters of the heavens to rain down, but also opened the springs of the deep:
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.See? Water ABOVE the firmament, and water BELOW it.
Perhaps I'm missing your point?
Hi Mike,
You are missing my point because I never mentioned anything about what Moses was supposed to have said about creation.
I never mentioned creation, firmament or where we breath.
You have me mixed up with someone else.I merely said that Jesus did not dumb down anything to make it easier to understand.
Jesus spoke in parables so that people could NOT understand.
“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.” Matt 13:34
“This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6
The disciples did not like Jesus using parables, for they and the multitude could not understand them. So they asked Jesus to explain the parables to them. “Why speakest thou unto them in parables?” (Matt 13:10).Jesus himself told them why. “That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13
This passage tells us that Jesus didn’t want them to understand and He didn’t want to convert them and He didn’t want to save them.
Tim
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2012,02:03) Chemical micelles, which form spontaneously, can do something that looks very much like a form of cell division.
Do they actually reproduce themselves, making MORE of them than there were before? And from what do they form spontaneously? Inanimate matter?(And since you have told me that living beings were “CREATIONS”, my claim about things “creating themselves” is accurate and valid in that context, and therefore NOT entitled to any apology.
Also, I didn't say I KNEW Princess was having her period. I suggested that MAYBE that was the reason she lambasted me out of the blue. Actually, my words were, “I think I'll chalk your whole post up to 'that time of the month'.” And only after she kept spouting conspiracy theorist nonsense did I say, “If I were you, I'd refrain from posting until your flow is gone and your hormones are back in check; because right now, you are making a complete fool of yourself.” So who are you to tell me that YOU can think first of horses, as opposed to zebras, but I can't think first of a menstrual cycle, as opposed to condemning her as seriously mentally deranged?
Stu, stick to either addressing my points or avoiding them. Keep your cute, “I'm wittier than you” comments to yourself. Because were I to sink to your level, and fight fire with fire, you'd lose by a landslide.)
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 11 2012,14:05) Shalom BD, muslims are irreverent here, and I don't agree with them!
Pigs are scavenger animals, they are unclean to eat.
Kosher law forbids the eating of pig. (Lev.11:7-7)B'shem
YHVH
So you agree!Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 11 2012,14:05) Shalom BD, muslims are irreverent here, and I don't agree with them!
Pigs are scavenger animals, they are unclean to eat.
Kosher law forbids the eating of pig. (Lev.11:7-7)B'shem
YHVH
Apostle Paul says you can eat pig or whatever you want do you disagree with him?Didn't you say Christ became a curse to free you from the burdensome Laws
1 Corinthians 10:24-30
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
24We should think about others and not about ourselves. 25However, when you buy meat in the market, go ahead and eat it. Keep your conscience clear by not asking where the meat came from. 26The Scriptures say, “The earth and everything in it belong to the Lord.”
27If an unbeliever invites you to dinner, and you want to go, then go. Eat whatever you are served. Don't cause a problem for someone's conscience by asking where the food came from. 28-29But if you are told that it has been sacrificed to idols, don't cause a problem by eating it. I don't mean a problem for yourself, but for the one who told you. Why should my freedom be limited by someone else's conscience? 30If I give thanks for what I eat, why should anyone accuse me of doing wrong?
Now go eat your bacon and pork chops if you are a real believer in what Paul preaches otherwise you are a hypocrite
Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 11 2012,23:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2012,10:02) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 10 2012,04:30) I think that you have it all wrong Mike. Jesus never “dumbed down” anyting to make it easier to understand.
Tim
I believe you are wrong, Tim. Imagine God telling a prophet about creation 100 years ago. Would it have done God any good to speak of sub-atomic particles, DNA, string theory or whatever – to a person who would have no idea what He was talking about?Now, you are asking about the firmament between the waters, right? Is there water below us at any given time? Yes. Is there water above us at any given time? Yes. The firmament (sky) is where we breathe above the waters of the sea and below the waters in the clouds, I guess.
When God flooded the earth, He not only caused the waters of the heavens to rain down, but also opened the springs of the deep:
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.See? Water ABOVE the firmament, and water BELOW it.
Perhaps I'm missing your point?
Hi Mike,
You are missing my point because I never mentioned anything about what Moses was supposed to have said about creation.
I never mentioned creation, firmament or where we breath.
You have me mixed up with someone else.I merely said that Jesus did not dumb down anything to make it easier to understand.
Jesus spoke in parables so that people could NOT understand.
“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.” Matt 13:34
“This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6
The disciples did not like Jesus using parables, for they and the multitude could not understand them. So they asked Jesus to explain the parables to them. “Why speakest thou unto them in parables?” (Matt 13:10).Jesus himself told them why. “That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13
This passage tells us that Jesus didn’t want them to understand and He didn’t want to convert them and He didn’t want to save them.
Tim
Your point is correct TimQuote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,11:09) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 11 2012,14:05) Shalom BD, muslims are irreverent here, and I don't agree with them!
Pigs are scavenger animals, they are unclean to eat.
Kosher law forbids the eating of pig. (Lev.11:7-7)B'shem
YHVH
So you agree!
Hi BD,I don't eat pork, and I don't agree!
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 11 2012,14:05) Shalom BD, muslims are irreverent here, and I don't agree with them!
Pigs are scavenger animals, they are unclean to eat.
Kosher law forbids the eating of pig. (Lev.11:7-7)B'shem
YHVH
Apostle Paul says you can eat pig or whatever you want do you disagree with him?Didn't you say Christ became a curse to free you from the burdensome Laws
1 Corinthians 10:24-30
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
24We should think about others and not about ourselves. 25However, when you buy meat in the market, go ahead and eat it. Keep your conscience clear by not asking where the meat came from. 26The Scriptures say, “The earth and everything in it belong to the Lord.”
27If an unbeliever invites you to dinner, and you want to go, then go. Eat whatever you are served. Don't cause a problem for someone's conscience by asking where the food came from. 28-29But if you are told that it has been sacrificed to idols, don't cause a problem by eating it. I don't mean a problem for yourself, but for the one who told you. Why should my freedom be limited by someone else's conscience? 30If I give thanks for what I eat, why should anyone accuse me of doing wrong?
Now go eat your bacon and pork chops if you are a real believer in what Paul preaches otherwise you are a hypocrite
Hi BD,You can also build a house right next to a diesel bus depot too,
but I wouldn't recommend either if you want to say healthy!B'shem
YHVHQuote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 10 2012,20:17) Evolution could be discredited tomorrow, and the bible would still be wrong and unreliable.
Yes WIT,I understand that you aren't necessarily for evolution, as long as you can be against the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 10 2012,20:17) Here's what I wrote, and you ignored, in my last post to you: Quote Fish did not evolve into cacti, according to evolutionary theory.
I didn't ignore it. I didn't think it addressed the point you knew I was making, even though I was messing with you by saying fish became cacti.Let me spell it out for you:
WIT, can you explain to me in laymen's terms how the life that many scientists think spontaneously started itself in the oceans evolved into plants?
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 10 2012,20:17) Do you not see a problem with that?
I do see a problem with God placing lights in the firmament, and so my quick answer will not do. I will pray on it and let you know if something comes to me.Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 10 2012,20:17) Do you not think it possible for God to do it in six literal days?
All things are possible with God.WIT, it is not necessary for me to know the details of creation. I believe that Jehovah God created all things. I further believe that the description given to Moses of how it happened was a very “dumbed down” explanation that Moses could then pass on to the people of his time. I don’t think that anyone living in Moses’ time, nor ours, would be able to understand the real way it happened.
Have you heard the theory of the “real” universe being at the edge of a black hole, and what we perceive as reality is only the “hologram” of the real thing? (Or something like that)
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,18:18) Now go eat your bacon and pork chops if you are a real believer in what Paul preaches otherwise you are a hypocrite
Mmmmmmmmmmmm………………..Bacon and pork chops! Don't forget ham! Yummy!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,18:20) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 11 2012,23:22) I merely said that Jesus did not dumb down anything to make it easier to understand.
Your point is correct Tim
Matthew 24
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.Teaching: There will be obvious signs to point out the beginning of the end.
Dumbed down quality: Just like there are signs you all know that point to summer coming.
Matthew 18
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?Teaching: God is more pleased about one sinner coming back to Him than He is about 99 righteous ones.
Dumbed down quality: Jesus puts this teaching in a parable about a man who lost one sheep, that then becomes the man's priority.
Shall I go on?
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,11:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 11 2012,14:05) Shalom BD, muslims are irreverent here, and I don't agree with them!
Pigs are scavenger animals, they are unclean to eat.
Kosher law forbids the eating of pig. (Lev.11:7-7)B'shem
YHVH
Apostle Paul says you can eat pig or whatever you want do you disagree with him?Didn't you say Christ became a curse to free you from the burdensome Laws
1 Corinthians 10:24-30
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
24We should think about others and not about ourselves. 25However, when you buy meat in the market, go ahead and eat it. Keep your conscience clear by not asking where the meat came from. 26The Scriptures say, “The earth and everything in it belong to the Lord.”
27If an unbeliever invites you to dinner, and you want to go, then go. Eat whatever you are served. Don't cause a problem for someone's conscience by asking where the food came from. 28-29But if you are told that it has been sacrificed to idols, don't cause a problem by eating it. I don't mean a problem for yourself, but for the one who told you. Why should my freedom be limited by someone else's conscience? 30If I give thanks for what I eat, why should anyone accuse me of doing wrong?
Now go eat your bacon and pork chops if you are a real believer in what Paul preaches otherwise you are a hypocrite
Hi BD,You can also build a house right next to a diesel bus depot too,
but I wouldn't recommend either if you want to say healthy!B'shem
YHVH
So you disagree with Paul? Why don't you believe that good health comes from God and not what goes in your mouth but what comes out of your mouth like all the slander and vile things you say against those who love God and His Christ. So you must think Mike is a lost soul eating pork and all, but being that you believe that he and you serve the same God and both believe in Jesus the same is Mike going to be saved and if he is why are you trying to be better than him by following the Laws that are a burden and that Jesus was made a curse for?Hi BD,
Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:22) Hi BD, Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVH
So why is your health in this world so important to you? You should give thanks and eat, do you love this world and want to stay as healthy as possible to stay in it?Mike has said he is not going to worry about what he eats or drinks but is instead going to focus on what he does and says which way is more healthier in the sight of God in your opinion?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:53) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:22) Hi BD, Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVH
So why is your health in this world so important to you? You should give thanks and eat, do you love this world and want to stay as healthy as possible to stay in it?Mike has said he is not going to worry about what he eats or drinks but is instead going to focus on what he does and says which way is more healthier in the sight of God in your opinion?
Hi BD,Why are you trying to cause divisions between me and Mike?
Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? then
you may become unhealthy; your choice BD.
I'm getting on in age and I would like to stay healthy.1 Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the HolySpirit which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,15:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:53) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:22) Hi BD, Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVH
So why is your health in this world so important to you? You should give thanks and eat, do you love this world and want to stay as healthy as possible to stay in it?Mike has said he is not going to worry about what he eats or drinks but is instead going to focus on what he does and says which way is more healthier in the sight of God in your opinion?
Hi BD,Why are you trying to cause divisions between me and Mike?
Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? then
you may become unhealthy; your choice BD.
I'm getting on in age and I would like to stay healthy.1 Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the HolySpirit which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.B'shem
YHVH
Actually I am not trying to cause division I am trying to find concensus.Can you glorify God in your body eating pork? Yes or no?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,11:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,18:20) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 11 2012,23:22) I merely said that Jesus did not dumb down anything to make it easier to understand.
Your point is correct Tim
Matthew 24
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.Teaching: There will be obvious signs to point out the beginning of the end.
Dumbed down quality: Just like there are signs you all know that point to summer coming.
Matthew 18
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?Teaching: God is more pleased about one sinner coming back to Him than He is about 99 righteous ones.
Dumbed down quality: Jesus puts this teaching in a parable about a man who lost one sheep, that then becomes the man's priority.
Shall I go on?
Hi Mike,
If you chose to believe what some preacher told you that a parable means instead of what Jesus himself said,
that is your choice.Obviously when Jesus said what I quoted, he meant something else. He didn't know what he was talking about.
Tim
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,06:34) Yes WIT, I understand that you aren't necessarily for evolution, as long as you can be against the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
I am not against the bible. I am simply pointing out that it is often wrong and unreliable.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,06:34) WIT, can you explain to me in laymen's terms how the life that many scientists think spontaneously started itself in the oceans evolved into plants?
Are you unaware that there is abundant plant life in the ocean?From the Holy Wikipedia:
Quote Plant life is widespread and very diverse under the ocean. Microscopic photosynthetic algae contribute a larger proportion of the worlds photosynthetic output than all the terrestrial forests combined. … The intertidal zone is also a good place to find plant life in the sea, where mangroves or cordgrass or beach grass might grow.
Do you see how your questions demonstrate a complete ignorance of basic biology?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,06:34) I do see a problem with God placing lights in the firmament, and so my quick answer will not do. I will pray on it and let you know if something comes to me.
I appreciate your honesty. While you are praying about it, meditate on this.From the Catholic Encyclopedia's Entry on “Firmament”:
Quote The notion that the sky was a vast solid dome seems to have been common among the ancient peoples whose ideas of cosmology have come down to us. Thus the Egyptians conceived the heavens to be an arched iron ceiling from which the stars were suspended by means of cables. Likewise to the mind of the Babylonians the sky was an immense dome, forged out of the hardest metal by the hand of Merodach (Marduk) and resting on a wall surrounding the earth. According to the notion prevalent among the Greeks and Romans, the sky was a great vault of crystal to which the fixed stars were attached, though by some it was held to be of iron or brass. That the Hebrews entertained similar ideas appears from numerous biblical passages. In the first account of the creation (Genesis 1) we read that God created a firmament to divide the upper or celestial from the lower or terrestrial waters. The Hebrew means something beaten or hammered out, and thus extended; the Vulgate rendering, “firmamentum” corresponds more closely with the Greek stereoma (Septuagint, Aquila, and Symmachus), “something made firm or solid”. The notion of the solidity of the firmament is moreover expressed in such passages as Job 37:18, where reference is made incidentally to the heavens, “which are most strong, as if they were of molten brass”. The same is implied in the purpose attributed to God in creating the firmament, viz. to serve as a wall of separation between the upper and lower of water, it being conceived as supporting a vast celestial reservoir; and also in the account of the deluge (Genesis 7), where we read that the “flood gates of heaven were opened, and shut up” (viii, 2). (Cf. also IV 28 sqq.) Other passages e.g. Isaiah 42:5, emphasize rather the idea of something extended: “Thus saith the Lord God that created the heavens and stretched them out” (Cf. Isaiah 44:24, and 40:22). In conformity with these ideas, the writer of Genesis 1:14-20 represents God as setting the stars in the firmament of heaven, and the fowls are located beneath it, i.e. in the air as distinct from the firmament. On this point as on many others, the Bible simply reflects the current cosmological ideas and language of the time. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,06:34) WIT, it is not necessary for me to know the details of creation.
Here's my point. You don't take the creation passage literally, because you know better based on modern science. Ancient people would have been quite comfortable taking the creation account literally, because they didn't know any better. In other words, the bible is hopelessly outdated in its thinking regarding cosmology, but because you can't admit to any errors in the bible, you refuse to see it. Instead you rely on mental gymnastics to torture the passage into saying something that doesn't contradict reality.Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,20:56) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,15:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:53) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:22) Hi BD, Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVH
So why is your health in this world so important to you? You should give thanks and eat, do you love this world and want to stay as healthy as possible to stay in it?Mike has said he is not going to worry about what he eats or drinks but is instead going to focus on what he does and says which way is more healthier in the sight of God in your opinion?
Hi BD,Why are you trying to cause divisions between me and Mike?
Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? then
you may become unhealthy; your choice BD.
I'm getting on in age and I would like to stay healthy.1 Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the HolySpirit which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.B'shem
YHVH
Actually I am not trying to cause division I am trying to find concensus.Can you glorify God in your body eating pork? Yes or no?
Hi BD,The Kosher laws were given to keep us healthy, not to glorify God with.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 13 2012,03:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,06:34) Yes WIT, I understand that you aren't necessarily for evolution, as long as you can be against the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
I am not against the bible. I am simply pointing out that it is often wrong and unreliable.
Hi WIT,But you have done neither, though you are welcome to keep trying!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2012,05:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,20:56) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,15:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:53) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:22) Hi BD, Mike can eat pork if he wants, I won't stone him.
I'm merely saying that you will be healthier if you don't eat
scavenger animals, like pigs, vultures, and ocean bottom feeders.B'shem
YHVH
So why is your health in this world so important to you? You should give thanks and eat, do you love this world and want to stay as healthy as possible to stay in it?Mike has said he is not going to worry about what he eats or drinks but is instead going to focus on what he does and says which way is more healthier in the sight of God in your opinion?
Hi BD,Why are you trying to cause divisions between me and Mike?
Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? then
you may become unhealthy; your choice BD.
I'm getting on in age and I would like to stay healthy.1 Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the HolySpirit which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.B'shem
YHVH
Actually I am not trying to cause division I am trying to find concensus.Can you glorify God in your body eating pork? Yes or no?
Hi BD,The Kosher laws were given to keep us healthy, not to glorify God with.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
does keeping the law glorify God?
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