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Modern monotheistic religions are unique in their absence of the divine feminine. God is male and if you believe in the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (neuter or male) there is no Goddess or Goddesses. Now the Catholic church trying to fill a void in converting pagans who had strong aspects of femininity in their worship systems often raised Mary to almost divine status, yet there is no support in scripture for this role. What happened to the divine feminine principal in Judeo-Christian teaching, was it never there or was it stripped out when the clearly patriarchal Hebrew priesthood organized their official teachings and writings?
Enter Asherah – “She Who Walks on the Sea.” occasionally called Elath (Elat), “the Goddess,” and may have also been called Qudshu, “Holiness.” According to texts from Ugarit, Asherah’s consort was El. According to The Oxford Companion To World Mythology (David Leeming, Oxford University Press, 2005, page 118), “It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'…If El was the high god of Abraham – Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh – Asherah was his wife, and there are archeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the seventh century B.C.E. (See 2 Kings 23:15)”
Inscriptions from two locations in southern Palestine seem to indicate that she was also worshiped as the consort of Yahweh.” Asherah either as herself or as the poles (usually wooden) used in her worship appear about forty times in the OT. For example in 1 Kings: 18 – 19 “Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table.” Evidently, a statue of Asherah stood in the Solomonic temple in Jerusalem for about two-thirds of its existence. Asherah worship seems to have been fairly common in pre-exile Isreal with her having many adherents in the common people and evidently quite a few kings. What happened to the principals of the divine feminine she represented? When creation is shown to be male and female, yin and yang, why is the divine strictly male?Quote (Cato @ Aug. 19 2009,14:27) Modern monotheistic religions are unique in their absence of the divine feminine. God is male and if you believe in the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (neuter or male) there is no Goddess or Goddesses. Now the Catholic church trying to fill a void in converting pagans who had strong aspects of femininity in their worship systems often raised Mary to almost divine status, yet there is no support in scripture for this role. What happened to the divine feminine principal in Judeo-Christian teaching, was it never there or was it stripped out when the clearly patriarchal Hebrew priesthood organized their official teachings and writings?
Enter Asherah – “She Who Walks on the Sea.” occasionally called Elath (Elat), “the Goddess,” and may have also been called Qudshu, “Holiness.” According to texts from Ugarit, Asherah’s consort was El. According to The Oxford Companion To World Mythology (David Leeming, Oxford University Press, 2005, page 118), “It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'…If El was the high god of Abraham – Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh – Asherah was his wife, and there are archeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the seventh century B.C.E. (See 2 Kings 23:15)”
Inscriptions from two locations in southern Palestine seem to indicate that she was also worshiped as the consort of Yahweh.” Asherah either as herself or as the poles (usually wooden) used in her worship appear about forty times in the OT. For example in 1 Kings: 18 – 19 “Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table.” Evidently, a statue of Asherah stood in the Solomonic temple in Jerusalem for about two-thirds of its existence. Asherah worship seems to have been fairly common in pre-exile Isreal with her having many adherents in the common people and evidently quite a few kings. What happened to the principals of the divine feminine she represented? When creation is shown to be male and female, yin and yang, why is the divine strictly male?
Hi CatoGod is neither Male or Female!
God takes on the role of male gender because he has chosen the Man to rule over all! But he also takes on a female role when he speaks of gathering Israel under his wings as a mother hen would be over its chicks!
Nothing more than that!
In heaven their will be no male or female for we shall be as the Angels of God!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,06:46) Hi Cato God is neither Male or Female!
God takes on the role of male gender because he has chosen the Man to rule over all! But he also takes on a female role when he speaks of gathering Israel under his wings as a mother hen would be over its chicks!
Nothing more than that!
In heaven their will be no male or female for we shall be as the Angels of God!
WJ
Perhaps it is as you say, but why is it not Father, Mother, Son, Daughter and Holy Spirit? Why no mention of God the Mother? If God can be 3 in one why not 5 in one? What of Lady Wisdom from Proverbs 8, allegory or something more? It is clear that the popular religion of the people in the land of Israel in biblical times contained knowledge and worship of female deities. Asherah was even seen by some as consort to God. Despite the best efforts of various prophets, the people and quite a few Kings of Israel seem to continually return to this goddess worship along side of that of Yahveh. Was Asherah imaginary, demonic, angelic or deity? Again if we are shown so strongly the male side of the divine in scripture why not the female side? Surely there must be some sort of balance in so basic a division as witnessed elsewhere in God's creation.Quote (Cato @ Aug. 20 2009,15:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,06:46) Hi Cato God is neither Male or Female!
God takes on the role of male gender because he has chosen the Man to rule over all! But he also takes on a female role when he speaks of gathering Israel under his wings as a mother hen would be over its chicks!
Nothing more than that!
In heaven their will be no male or female for we shall be as the Angels of God!
WJ
Perhaps it is as you say, but why is it not Father, Mother, Son, Daughter and Holy Spirit? Why no mention of God the Mother? If God can be 3 in one why not 5 in one? What of Lady Wisdom from Proverbs 8, allegory or something more? It is clear that the popular religion of the people in the land of Israel in biblical times contained knowledge and worship of female deities. Asherah was even seen by some as consort to God. Despite the best efforts of various prophets, the people and quite a few Kings of Israel seem to continually return to this goddess worship along side of that of Yahveh. Was Asherah imaginary, demonic, angelic or deity? Again if we are shown so strongly the male side of the divine in scripture why not the female side? Surely there must be some sort of balance in so basic a division as witnessed elsewhere in God's creation.
There is balance:Genesis 1:26-28 (King James Version)
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
There is mankind and the male and female are both created in the One image of God the diiference between a Male and a Female is that one is a man without a womb and the other is a wombed man hence the term Woman.
I hope this has helped.
In verse 27 when God uses the singular, it is “his” image, clearly male. Also God is referred to as the Father many times, where is God the Mother ever used?
While I can buy God is beyond sex or the divisions thereof, I don't think the writers of scripture viewed the Godhead as other then male. Balance, in the universe yes, but in scripture clearly not. The divine feminine was largely written off. I think originally the ancient Israelis probably did not view God as the only deity in the heavens. Even in the same book and chapter of Genesis you quoted in verse 26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image…” here it is plural. In all probability they had other deities helping God in their beliefs including goddesses like Asherah, before it was decided God was the singular deity in heaven and the others were demonized and lost their godhood. This left God solely male and the only god until much later Catholics proposed the trinity and came up with God as having three aspects none of which were portreyed as female. No the divine feminine in scripture like the divinity of other entities beside Yahveh survive only as isolated verses or obscure references.
Cato……..the Lord could have been referencing His seven Spirits (intellects) of Power, the go to and fro through out the whole earth and He uses to create His will in His creation. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Yes, perhaps when God is speaking in the plural he could be refering to aspects of his own being. Yet the fact remains that scripture is markedly short in describing any divine aspects as female when it obviously has no problem in naming divine aspects male. My point is that scripture was written by men who may have had a bias against the expression of divine femininity and chose to write out the more obvious aspects thereof and perhaps Asherah was a victim of such. From wife of EL, to consort of Yehveh, to pagan goddesss, to demon, to practical oblivion. What was her true role or do we rewrite such for her as is the current popular belief by those who declare for others what God's will is?
Quote (Cato @ Aug. 22 2009,06:22) Yes, perhaps when God is speaking in the plural he could be refering to aspects of his own being. Yet the fact remains that scripture is markedly short in describing any divine aspects as female when it obviously has no problem in naming divine aspects male. My point is that scripture was written by men who may have had a bias against the expression of divine femininity and chose to write out the more obvious aspects thereof and perhaps Asherah was a victim of such. From wife of EL, to consort of Yehveh, to pagan goddesss, to demon, to practical oblivion. What was her true role or do we rewrite such for her as is the current popular belief by those who declare for others what God's will is?
I think on reflection I would support your view (to a reasonable extent) about scripture being written by men.I don't think God is male or female, but I would say that the mascauline aspect seems to be used more (by God), even now. But perhaps this is because that's what everyone thinks God is – I'm curious as to the precise mechanics of how God could communicate with people (why it should be so selective, and exactly how it would work in terms of the physics governing the universe), and wonder if there are constraints in terms of what the human mind can understand – i.e. you will not understand something entirely alien to you – communication must be on terms you can personally understand and accept.
It is in my opinion foolish to ascribe God a gender – I don't see any significant probability that God reproduces sexually – or at all – in any recent time.
It is more foolish still to presume that men were meant to rule and hold all the power. Just because we tend to have a more physically powerful stature and not to get stuck with childcare doesn't mean we have any greater insight into how to wield power and make intelligent choices.
Since men have tended to hold onto the majority of the power in recent history however, I would say they must also bear responsibility over the results of how they have used it (or abused it, in reality).
I will say, if some day I were to have this choice – I would discard a man who believed he should be in control simply because he was a man without a second thought.
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 22 2009,08:54) Quote (Cato @ Aug. 22 2009,06:22) Yes, perhaps when God is speaking in the plural he could be refering to aspects of his own being. Yet the fact remains that scripture is markedly short in describing any divine aspects as female when it obviously has no problem in naming divine aspects male. My point is that scripture was written by men who may have had a bias against the expression of divine femininity and chose to write out the more obvious aspects thereof and perhaps Asherah was a victim of such. From wife of EL, to consort of Yehveh, to pagan goddesss, to demon, to practical oblivion. What was her true role or do we rewrite such for her as is the current popular belief by those who declare for others what God's will is?
I think on reflection I would support your view (to a reasonable extent) about scripture being written by men.I don't think God is male or female, but I would say that the mascauline aspect seems to be used more (by God), even now. But perhaps this is because that's what everyone thinks God is – I'm curious as to the precise mechanics of how God could communicate with people (why it should be so selective, and exactly how it would work in terms of the physics governing the universe), and wonder if there are constraints in terms of what the human mind can understand – i.e. you will not understand something entirely alien to you – communication must be on terms you can personally understand and accept.
It is in my opinion foolish to ascribe God a gender – I don't see any significant probability that God reproduces sexually – or at all – in any recent time.
It is more foolish still to presume that men were meant to rule and hold all the power. Just because we tend to have a more physically powerful stature and not to get stuck with childcare doesn't mean we have any greater insight into how to wield power and make intelligent choices.
Since men have tended to hold onto the majority of the power in recent history however, I would say they must also bear responsibility over the results of how they have used it (or abused it, in reality).
I will say, if some day I were to have this choice – I would discard a man who believed he should be in control simply because he was a man without a second thought.
I have tried to explain that male and female are simply to types of man one with a womb and out without a womb.Adam was made without a womb so God created a wombed-man i.e. woman.
Since they are both created from One Soul, gender Etymology: Middle English gendre, from Anglo-French genre, gendre, from Latin gener-, genus birth, race, kind, gender — more at kin
So what I am saying, is that a woman is a kind of Man not an independent creation.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,10:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,10:12) Hi BD,
Woman is of man.
That's what I said
Which implies that man comes first, which some use to argue that men are meant to hold the power, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.Men and women are both the same species, yes – the differences go beyond the presence or absence of a womb however.
I'm not sure that the technical fact that we're all 'mankind' really alters what Cato was trying to say, however.
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 23 2009,19:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,10:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,10:12) Hi BD,
Woman is of man.
That's what I said
Which implies that man comes first, which some use to argue that men are meant to hold the power, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.Men and women are both the same species, yes – the differences go beyond the presence or absence of a womb however.
I'm not sure that the technical fact that we're all 'mankind' really alters what Cato was trying to say, however.
They excel in different things.So again what happened to the divine feminine in Christianity? Father, no Mother. Son no Daughter. If God is above division why not appear as sexless, androgynous or hermaphroditic? Spritual sexuality goes beyond biology it is about the active and receptive principles, yin and yang; why is there no balance in scripture? It stands to reason if there is a father god then there should be a mother god as well. For those who suggest God is both, then why does he not appear in scripture clearly as Mother as he is for Father? IMO something does not add up or perhaps more accurately something was taken out.
Quote (Cato @ Aug. 24 2009,23:18) So again what happened to the divine feminine in Christianity? Father, no Mother. Son no Daughter. If God is above division why not appear as sexless, androgynous or hermaphroditic? Spritual sexuality goes beyond biology it is about the active and receptive principles, yin and yang; why is there no balance in scripture? It stands to reason if there is a father god then there should be a mother god as well. For those who suggest God is both, then why does he not appear in scripture clearly as Mother as he is for Father? IMO something does not add up or perhaps more accurately something was taken out.
It's only my pet theory, but the reason to appear with a gender is to facilitate communication with people. In order to communicate effectively with another entity (or species), you need to be able to do so on common terms with it.Therefore to communicate with a species you need to take on sufficient common elements to make sense to it – and it's all to do with intelligence and knowledge.
If I were to try to communicate with you in a language you do not understand, what is the result?
I could communicate with someone in a common language like English, using words outside their vocabulary, and again the same result (this happens to me quite often actually)
In fact, to communicate effectively, you need to quite closely match the expectations of your audience – and I imagine that adopting the illusion of gender would be part of that process.
As a minor note – I think (not strictly just a pet theory) that God uses both genders, but seems now to favour the male (possibly because that's how people have had their expectations built up).
I don't dispute the probable editing out of the female side of things – just explaining why I don't think God has a gender per se.
In the ancient world observers saw that there were two great principles the active, light, masculine and the receptive, dark, feminine. The great Yin and Yang, the intermixing of which brings forth the fruit of the universe. In Jewish mysticism the universe came about as 10 eminations from the Godhead beyond, the first emination was Kether a masculine force, the second was Binah the female. While I think the Godhead itself is beyond division and so sex, it expesses itself as forces male and female for in our universe one without the other is lacking. It is my opinion that Judeo-Christianity has forgotten the feminine side of God (the Catholic Church's elevation of a clearly human Mary to some kind of demigod status not withstanding).
Quote (Cato @ Aug. 20 2009,06:27) Modern monotheistic religions are unique in their absence of the divine feminine. God is male and if you believe in the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (neuter or male) there is no Goddess or Goddesses. Now the Catholic church trying to fill a void in converting pagans who had strong aspects of femininity in their worship systems often raised Mary to almost divine status, yet there is no support in scripture for this role. What happened to the divine feminine principal in Judeo-Christian teaching, was it never there or was it stripped out when the clearly patriarchal Hebrew priesthood organized their official teachings and writings?
Enter Asherah – “She Who Walks on the Sea.” occasionally called Elath (Elat), “the Goddess,” and may have also been called Qudshu, “Holiness.” According to texts from Ugarit, Asherah’s consort was El. According to The Oxford Companion To World Mythology (David Leeming, Oxford University Press, 2005, page 118), “It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'…If El was the high god of Abraham – Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh – Asherah was his wife, and there are archeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the seventh century B.C.E. (See 2 Kings 23:15)”
Inscriptions from two locations in southern Palestine seem to indicate that she was also worshiped as the consort of Yahweh.” Asherah either as herself or as the poles (usually wooden) used in her worship appear about forty times in the OT. For example in 1 Kings: 18 – 19 “Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table.” Evidently, a statue of Asherah stood in the Solomonic temple in Jerusalem for about two-thirds of its existence. Asherah worship seems to have been fairly common in pre-exile Isreal with her having many adherents in the common people and evidently quite a few kings. What happened to the principals of the divine feminine she represented? When creation is shown to be male and female, yin and yang, why is the divine strictly male?
God isn't male. God made man in his image, he made them male and female. Male and female together reflect more about who God is than either one on their own.God is called him because all comes from him. I think woman means “from man”. God is from no one, hence he is not referred to as female. Also man was made in the image of God and the glory of the man is the woman. The glory of God is Christ. And we are described as female in relation to Christ as being his bride.
But God in relation to all is the originator. Hence, using female words like “her” & “she” is not accurate.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2009,00:07) God isn't male. God made man in his image, he made them male and female. Male and female together reflect more about who God is than either one on their own. God is called him because all comes from him. I think woman means “from man”. God is from no one, hence he is not referred to as female. Also man was made in the image of God and the glory of the man is the woman. The glory of God is Christ. And we are described as female in relation to Christ as being his bride.
But God in relation to all is the originator. Hence, using female words like “her” & “she” is not accurate.
So if God isn't male as you clearly state why isn't the Godhead referred to as an it? For someone who is above division why always refer to one aspect of it's being ie male? You say it is because God created man and woman is from man so that is why he is called Father and him. That is not a convincing argument. Perhaps God is referred to as solely male because ancient Hebrews derived him from El and Yehwah who were clearly male deities. I think the original writers of scripture wrote him as male because that is the way they saw it. They also viewed the world having goddesses that balanced their cosmology; later it was determined that Yehwah was the only god and all others were demons or figments of man's imagination. When now we view Yehwah as the Godhead and the only divinity then it makes sense once to view him as beyond the division of sexuality, but that I think is a modern interpretation that scripture and archeology indicate were not the views during the times OT scripture took place.Quote the Catholic Church's elevation of a clearly human Mary to some kind of demigod status not withstanding). We have not elevated her to deity of ANY sort. She is a created being. She is the first of the saints, the first believer. She is the ship which brought us the treasure which is Christ (St. Ephrem). She is the second Eve. The Ark of the New Covenant. The Theotokos (God-bearer). The mother of all the living (human race that is).
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