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Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 01 2012,00:23) Is this better? Creator of the universe – father to believers – mightiest of all to those who consider Him an enemy.
EDJGOD ALMIGHTY is a father to all ,believers and unbelievers ,and his the creator of all things
;if you have two sons and one is bad ,are you stopping being a father to him
this is a wrong statement and understand that Idols are material fix things,but gods are beings that are possessing powers that no ordinary men has ,but scriptures says that OF ALL OF THEM NONE HIS ,AS GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS .
AND ONE MORE THING GOD ALMIGHTY HIS THE ENEMY OF NO ONE BUT WHOEVER DO NOT CONSIDER GOD TO BE WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AS MADE HIMSELF A ENEMY OF TRUTH AND LOVE,AND SO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS CHOICE ,AND IN NO WAY DOES IT AFFECT GOD ,ONLY OTHERS AROUND US ,
Quote GOD ALMIGHTY is a father to all –Ter
We are now getting off topic, but John 8:44 says: “you belong to your father, the devil….”
You can use the word “father” in the sense of “creator” as in giver of life, as you perhaps are, or you can use that word in the way John 8:44 does, and as perhaps Ed is.
Problem solved. Back to Ed's definition of 'god' which as I believe has been demonstrated, (and yet to be refuted) is inconsistent with the Bible as a whole.
Quote (david @ Aug. 02 2012,00:54) Quote GOD ALMIGHTY is a father to all –Ter
We are now getting off topic, but John 8:44 says: “you belong to your father, the devil….”
You can use the word “father” in the sense of “creator” as in giver of life, as you perhaps are, or you can use that word in the way John 8:44 does, and as perhaps Ed is.
Problem solved. Back to Ed's definition of 'god' which as I believe has been demonstrated, (and yet to be refuted) is inconsistent with the Bible as a whole.
DAVIDagreed ,
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2012,12:05) Ed, I think I already gave this as an example, but when 1 Cor 4:4 (or maybe 2 cor….no, I think 1 cor) says: “the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers…,” 1. were you thinking this refers to your definition (Jehovah)
2. if not, how does your definition apply to this instance were “god” is used?
Hi David,Is this a serious question?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2012,13:33) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,19:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2012,10:55) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,17:04) Hi Mike, Do you include Jesus in Jer.10:11?
Jer 10 is clearly speaking about man-made idols (read verses 3-9), which are no elohim at all, Ed.
EXACTLY my point. …thanks for spelling it out!
Okay, so we agree that man made idols are not elohim – even though they are thought to be by those who made and worshipped them.But try this one on for size:
2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.Ed, the god of the Moabites was Chemosh. Who do YOU think the king sacrificed his son to? And who do YOU think brought wrath upon the Israelites after this sacrifice? Do you suppose Chemosh was made of wood and stone, yet was able to bring wrath down upon Israel? Or do you think it was Jehovah Himself, who honored the pagan sacrifice of the Moabite king, and brought wrath down upon His own chosen nation?
Hi Mike,They are not real gods, Mike.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Aug. 01 2012,17:54) Back to Ed's definition of 'god' which as I believe has been demonstrated, (and yet to be refuted) is inconsistent with the Bible as a whole.
Hi David,I didn't know you disagreed with my definition.
But feel free to do that if you so choose.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 01 2012,11:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2012,13:33)
2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.Ed, the god of the Moabites was Chemosh.
1. Who do YOU think the king sacrificed his son to?
2. And who do YOU think brought wrath upon the Israelites after this sacrifice?
They are not real gods, Mike.
Okay Ed. I have your answer, but now I need your reasoning.Please start by actually ANSWERING the two questions from before.
Then, I think David is on the right track that we should define what “god” really means.
And when I say “god”, I mean to say “el” and “theos”.
I will tell you that no man today knows for sure what the word “el” truly meant, but the vast majority of those who have researched into it have concluded that it meant:
1. One who is mighty.
2. One who is to be revered.
3. A combination of #1 and #2.I encourage you to Google or search this out for yourself, Ed. If you come up with something different for the word “el”, then please post those definitions on this thread, so we can all narrow them down and find a definition that is agreeable to all of us here.
It does us no good to discuss how many gods there are if you are going to insist that the word means: “The Omniscient Creator of All Things”. Because that is not truly what the word “el” ever meant. It never meant “father”. It never meant “creator”.
Savvy?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2012,10:26) Okay Ed. It does us no good to discuss how many gods there are if you are going to insist that the word means: “The Omniscient Creator of All Things”.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,That wasn't my definition?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAnd are you okay with the following definition of “el”?
1. One who is mighty.
2. One who is to be revered.
3. A combination of #1 and #2.Hi Mike,
1. One who is mighty in strength – especially almighty.
This is the definition of “El”.
2. One who is to be revered.
Though true, this is not part of the definition of “El”.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2012,11:38) So can you live with “mighty one” Ed?
Hi Mike,“Almighty”
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThat won't work, Ed. “Almighty” means the mightiest of the mighty. How will that apply to situations like when Deborah is called “elohim”?
Was Deborah “almighty”?
Can you show the source where you learned that “el” means “almighty”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2012,13:46) That won't work, Ed. “Almighty” means the mightiest of the mighty. How will that apply to situations like when Deborah is called “elohim”? Was Deborah “almighty”?
Can you show the source where you learned that “el” means “almighty”?
DEBORAH—-ELOHIM??wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2012,13:46) That won't work, Ed. “Almighty” means the mightiest of the mighty. How will that apply to situations like when Deborah is called “elohim”? Was Deborah “almighty”?
Can you show the source where you learned that “el” means “almighty”?
Hi Mike,You asked me about “ĔL” –
and now you switch to “ĔL-ō-Hêêm”Strong's Hebrew #410
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ Aug. 02 2012,07:16) DEBORAH—-ELOHIM??
Judges 5:8 NET ©
God chose new leaders (elohim), then fighters appeared in the city gates; but, I swear, not a shield or spear could be found, among forty military units in Israel.The footnote says: The Hebrew text reads literally, “He chose God/gods new.”
The word used is “elohim”, which is the plural of “el”. It gets confusing many times, because the Hebrews used the plural of majesty, as it is commonly called, to represent greatness. I don't know if you're familiar with the plural of majesty, but it means that the plural Hebrew word “trees”, for instance, COULD refer to more than one tree, OR, it COULD refer to one great big tree.
It is the same with the plural word “elohim”. Sometimes it refers to gods, and other times to a mighty, or majestic god. Usually we can tell by the verb associated with the verse, or the context itself……….. but not always. There are still quite a few scriptures where it is unclear if God is meant, or gods.
I just read one today that I'll share with you:
Gensis 20:13
And when God had me wander from my father’s household, I said to her, ‘This is how you can show your love to me: Everywhere we go, say of me, “He is my brother.”’Here is some info from NETNotes about that verse:
The Hebrew verb is plural. This may be a case of grammatical agreement with the name for God, which is plural in form. However, when this plural name refers to the one true God, accompanying predicates are usually singular in form. Perhaps Abraham is accommodating his speech to Abimelech’s polytheistic perspective. If so, one should translate, “when the gods made me wander.”See what I mean? We can't be totally sure if Abraham said, “when the gods made me wander”, or if he said, “when God made me wander”.
Anyway, Deborah was singing her victory song, and identifying herself as the new elohim that Jehovah gave to Israel.
Questions?
Ed,
Elohim has been explained as a plural form of Eloah or as plural derivative of El.
If Elohim be regarded as derived from El, its original meaning would be “the strong one” according to Wellhausen………..
……or “the foremost one”, according to Nöldeke……….
……..or “the mighty one”, according to Dillmann……
This info is from the Catholic Encyclopedia, Ed. But where did you get YOUR info that “el” or “elohim” mean “ALMIGHTY”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2012,07:33) Ed, Elohim has been explained as a plural form of Eloah or as plural derivative of El.
If Elohim be regarded as derived from El, its original meaning would be “the strong one” according to Wellhausen………..
……or “the foremost one”, according to Nöldeke……….
……..or “the mighty one”, according to Dillmann……
This info is from the Catholic Encyclopedia, Ed. But where did you get YOUR info that “el” or “elohim” mean “ALMIGHTY”?
Hi Mike,Are not the words “the foremost one” synonymous to the meaning of “Almighty”.
Also, plural would naturally encompass more than one – mighty vs Almighty.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgSo then you think that Deborah was the mightiest being of all the beings in existence, Ed?
Plus, I'm STILL waiting for the explanation of the answer you gave to the questions I numbered 1 and 2 for you a couple of days ago.
What does it mean “they are not real gods”? Who is the “they”? And how does a “not real” mighty one cause serious wrath to come down upon the Israelites – causing them to flee for home?
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