As indeed there are many gods………..

[mikeboll64]

Hi All,

I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High.

I understand that today, the word “god” generally refers to the ONE Omniscient Creator of All Things.  I agree that there is only ONE of those in existence – His name is Jehovah.

But I want to help you people understand that the word “elohim”, although many times REFERRING TO the Omniscient Creator of All Things, didn't really MEAN “the omniscient creator of all things”.  Instead, the word “el” (the plural of which is “elohim” in Hebrew) meant “mighty one”, or “one to be revered”.  The title was used of God Almighty, angels, and human beings.  The Greek word “theos” carries the same meaning, and was likewise used of God Almighty, angels, and human beings.

There are many scriptures thrown at me to prove me wrong about this, but I will start with one that our new member limjunis just quoted in the “Word” thread:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The general consensus is that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY true god, making all others “false gods”.  But that means that Jesus, who is also called a god in scripture, is a “false god”.  It means that Satan, who is very much real and very much powerful, is also a “false god”.

Look at the same scripture with the word “god” switched out for what “theos” meant in NT times:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true MIGHTY ONE, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Does this statement mean that Jehovah is literally the ONLY “mighty one” in existence?  Is Jesus himself not also mighty?  Or Satan?  Or Michael the archangel? Etc.

Or is it more of an emphatical statement, placing Jehovah ABOVE all the others who are also legitimately called “mighty ones”?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42)

Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High. I understand that today, the word “god” generally refers to the ONE Omniscient Creator of All Things.  I agree that there is only ONE of those in existence – His name is Jehovah. But I want to help you people understand that the word “elohim”, although many times REFERRING TO the Omniscient Creator of All Things, didn't really MEAN “the omniscient creator of all things”.  Instead, the word “el” (the plural of which is “elohim” in Hebrew) meant “mighty one”, or “one to be revered”.  The title was used of God Almighty, angels, and human beings.  The Greek word “theos” carries the same meaning, and was likewise used of God Almighty, angels, and human beings. There are many scriptures thrown at me to prove me wrong about this, but I will start with one that our new member limjunis just quoted in the “Word” thread: John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. The general consensus is that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY true god, making all others “false gods”.  But that means that Jesus, who is also called a god in scripture, is a “false god”.  It means that Satan, who is very much real and very much powerful, is also a “false god”. Look at the same scripture with the word “god” switched out for what “theos” meant in NT times: John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true MIGHTY ONE, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Does this statement mean that Jehovah is literally the ONLY “mighty one” in existence?  Is Jesus himself not also mighty?  Or Satan?  Or Michael the archangel?  Etc. Or is it more of an emphatical statement, placing Jehovah ABOVE all the others who are also legitimately called “mighty ones”?

Mike B.

Was not everything created by the word of God? by the will of God.
Was Jesus not the word made flesh?
So is Jesus not mighty? Is the word not mighty?
Can the word create; without the will of God?
Can the word lift up a finger; without the will of God?
Can the word do anything without the will of God?

Still confused?
Can the word come out of Gods mouth without his will?
Gods word is a LIVING BEING,every part of God is a living force,it can manifest itself at Gods will.
His will is also living,He is life itself,and the source of all life.
Is his word not the alpha and omega?
Is God not the alpha and omega?
Is not all in existence,by his WILL?

Still confused? your are not alone.

wakeup.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,18:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true MIGHTY ONE, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Does this statement mean that Jehovah is literally the ONLY “mighty one” in existence?  Is Jesus himself not also mighty?  Or Satan?  Or Michael the archangel?  Etc. Or is it more of an emphatical statement, placing Jehovah ABOVE all the others who are also legitimately called “mighty ones”? Mike B. Was not everything created by the word of God? by the will of God. Was Jesus not the word made flesh? So is Jesus not mighty? Is the word not mighty?

So is Jesus a “false mighty one”, Wakeup? Or is there perhaps a less literal meaning of Jesus' words in John 17:3?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,11:43)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,18:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true MIGHTY ONE, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Does this statement mean that Jehovah is literally the ONLY “mighty one” in existence?  Is Jesus himself not also mighty?  Or Satan?  Or Michael the archangel?  Etc. Or is it more of an emphatical statement, placing Jehovah ABOVE all the others who are also legitimately called “mighty ones”? Mike B. Was not everything created by the word of God? by the will of God. Was Jesus not the word made flesh? So is Jesus not mighty? Is the word not mighty? So is Jesus a “false mighty one”, Wakeup?  Or is there perhaps a less literal meaning of Jesus' words in John 17:3?

Mike.

Why a false mighty one?

The word proceeded out of the father, he is part of the father.
Is your word seperate from you; is your word not you?
Can the word come out of your mouth without your will?
Can your mouth open and close without you wanting to do so?

Greetings.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Are you equating Jesus WITH the only true mighty one – as if Jesus and the Father TOGETHER are “the only true mighty one”?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,12:42)

Are you equating Jesus WITH the only true mighty one – as if Jesus and the Father TOGETHER are “the only true mighty one”?

MikeB.

I am still confused with your question,altough I know it is genuine.

Let me put it this way.
Can the word exist without God?

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Let me try to un-confuse you. In John 17:3, Jesus speaks about TWO beings, one of whom is “the only true mighty one”.

Since Jesus is NOT the one he calls “the only true mighty one”, does it mean that Jesus is a “false mighty one”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,19:53)

Let me put it this way. Can the word exist without God?

Nothing can exist without God.  Without God, there would be no spoken words of God, nor would there exist His main spokesman, also called the Word of God, but not to be confused with literal words that God has spoken.

Wakeup, do you realize that the phrase “the word of god” doesn't alway refer to the same thing?  Sometimes it refers to literal words God has spoken.  Other times it refers to God's spokesman, who as such, has the title “The Word of God”.

I think sometimes you confuse those two things as though they are one and the same thing.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,12:57)

Let me try to un-confuse you.  In John 17:3, Jesus speaks about TWO beings, one of whom is “the only true mighty one”. Since Jesus is NOT the one he calls “the only true mighty one”, does it mean that Jesus is a “false mighty one”?

MikeB.

None of them are false.
God is allmighty,and his word is obviously also allmighty.
There is only one God, and his word proceeded from God.
God is incharge of his word; since he is Gods word,he is mighy.

God is mighty and his word is also mighty,but his word can not operate without the will of God. He can do nothing.
Only by Gods word are all created,BY GODS WILL ONLY.

All are created by Gods will,not by the will of his word,can you understand? His word has no will,but all is Gods will.

But now that Jesus is resurrected; God has GIVEN HIM ALL AUTHORITY. Now he can do what HE WILL,he does not have to ASK THE FATHER first,as it was before.But God is still in charge.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Wakeup,

John 17:3 speaks of TWO, one of whom is the only true God, and the OTHER of whom is Jesus.

Do you agree?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,13:31)

Wakeup, John 17:3 speaks of TWO, one of whom is the only true God, and the OTHER of whom is Jesus. Do you agree?

I completely agree.

When God spoke to moses or the prophets; who is it speaking,but the word then,and made flesh in his earth bound state. Who spoke to adam and eve in the garden? its the word of God; that same word that was made flesh later.

Let me give you some scriptures in John 10:34. And Jesus answered them,IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN YOUR LAW,–I SAID—
YE ARE GODS. (he said,this was before he was made flesh).

He spoke in the law of israel: it was him from the beginning,even when HE SAID; ''let there be light''.

Gen.3:9.
And the Lord called unto Adam and he said unto him,WHERE ART THOU? Who do you think is speaking?(the word).

God does everything BY HIS WORD.(there are no two different words).one God speaking to men and another God speaking through Jesus. The word came down from heaven,change into flesh,he is the bread from heaven.in the form of the flesh.(changed from spirit to flesh).

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42)

Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High.

Hi Mike,

Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2012,22:53)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High. Hi Mike, Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

what you mean ??

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,16:35)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2012,22:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High. Hi Mike, Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what you mean ??

Hi Pierre,

In English God means  ONLY  God.

In Hebrew (which is very different my friend)
ĔL-ō-Hêêm can mean  ANY  of the following:

1. angels,
2. exceeding
3. God
4. very great
5. mighty

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2012,00:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,16:35) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2012,22:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High. Hi Mike, Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what you mean ?? Hi Pierre, In English God means  ONLY  God. In Hebrew (which is very different my friend) ĔL-ō-Hêêm can mean  ANY  of the following: 1. angels, 2. exceeding 3. God 4. very great 5. mighty God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

And so,what's your point

Do you not see that what you say as no meaning
Open your eyes

[Ed J]

Hi Pierrre,

I have clearly made my point  –  it's too bad you can't understand it.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,13:31)

Wakeup, John 17:3 speaks of TWO, one of whom is the only true God, and the OTHER of whom is Jesus. Do you agree?

MikeB.

This is the hard one mike,but I will try to get it across.
The word is spirit,and God had made that spirit flesh,and he chose a woman of the root of David.This was Gods technic to change the spirit word into flesh,for he MUST BE BORN LIKE ANY OTHER HUMAN,OUT OF WATER AND BLOOD.

Now he is man like you and me,but clean in the inside; not contaminated by satans decease.(sin,which men has inherrited to now).
And he stayed that way,and followed his fathers will to death.

Now this –HOLY MAN– WAS KILLED AND BURRIED.
and God has gloryfied his body and given him great authority,and to be worshipped.This is Gods will.

Not forgetting that this mans origin was spirit; the living word of God, and now recognised as the son of the root of david.
But he is still the word of God.rev.19:13.
So we can worship God or we can worship his word ,its the same thing. When Jesus said I am the alpha and omega;

WHO IS SPEAKING? GOD! BECAUSE JESUS IS HIS WORD.
When jesus said''before Abraham was I AM; who was speaking? God! through Jesus. He was indeed before Abraham and his word also, who created Abraham.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2012,00:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,16:35) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2012,22:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High. Hi Mike, Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what you mean ?? Hi Pierre, In English God means  ONLY  God. In Hebrew (which is very different my friend) ĔL-ō-Hêêm can mean  ANY  of the following: 1. angels, 2. exceeding 3. God 4. very great 5. mighty God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

when it says God any language it mean just God but in scriptures it could mean God ,the only true almighty God of creation ,or it is just a word that mean a powerful being like angels but those are not the God above all gods there is only ONE that his this .

[Ed J]

Keep studying my friend.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2012,19:26)

Keep studying my friend.

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