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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 11 2007,03:19) to all…..I believe we are all born without sin, into a sinfull world and just like a virus infects a person so sin infected us < John said all theat's in the world, the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh are of (FROM) the world. Remember it say's sin intered into the world and when we enter into the world sin was all ready here, we were nutral neither Good nor Evil. But our Father has provided the antidote for our infection, the Sacrifice of Jesus and the infusion of Holy Spirit which rieds us from sins and iniquites.
We should all be thankfull……gene
Yeah only we are born with the virus
Take a child and just let him go what will he do good? He will steal another's toy and so much more.
Paul said that the members of his body wage war with his mind.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.The sin dwells in us!
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:Who is the outter man?
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.Take it for what it is worth
We are born in a state of sin, ie seperation from God. That is why a believing parent is needed to cover the child.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; else your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
My 2 sons chose to follow Jesus at age 3, my daughter at age 4. Until that time my wife and I were their covering.
Further explaination can be found on my page http://www.all4god.net/when_babies_die.htm
Kenrch……> my answer to you is > suffer the little childern to come unto me, for of such are the Kingdom of God. And except you become as a little child you shall in no way inter the kingdom of God.
Ken….NO childern are not born sinners, they and you learned to sin from the world you were born into, and it infected you and me. We became sinners we wern't born sinners. If we say we are already born sinners then we can also say, it's really not our fault if we sin becaue thats the way we were born, so why would God hold us accountable if it not really our faults.
Ken…No were are born Neutral, and like John said sin is of (From) the world. And we become infected with it.And just like a virus once we come in contact with it, it infects our whole body and minds.
just the way i see it brother……….geneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2007,04:02) Kenrch……> my answer to you is > suffer the little childern to come unto me, for of such are the Kingdom of God. And except you become as a little child you shall in no way inter the kingdom of God. Ken….NO childern are not born sinners, they and you learned to sin from the world you were born into, and it infected you and me. We became sinners we wern't born sinners. If we say we are already born sinners then we can also say, it's really not our fault if we sin becaue thats the way we were born, so why would God hold us accountable if it not really our faults.
Ken…No were are born Neutral, and like John said sin is of (From) the world. And we become infected with it.And just like a virus once we come in contact with it, it infects our whole body and minds.
just the way i see it brother……….gene
OKHi,
JA says in another thread that Jesus was created sinless.
Does that make him any different to any infant?James discussed sin in chapter 1 and it does not seem to describe the actions of infants.
All,
Yes, I said this elsewhere recently:
Quote Nick, No and yes.
No: All human being are born into a sinful state (Sinful man cannot create sinless man – that's why Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit – The Life/Mind Force from the Spirit but the Flesh/Dust body from Mary)
Yes: “Innocent” of Sin – but even infants will be judged on the last day – They will be given the chance to believe or not and judged according ly – Just as any others who are 'innocent' of the knowledge of God (And that is why Jesus was taken by the Holy to Preach to the Dead of Noah's days).
In any case, Why you not answer my questions to RM, first?
Interesting topic.
Others have covered truths such as, “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”
Is there a difference between sin and sins? Besides, of course, the obvious one that one is singular and one is plural.
We were all born with a sin nature, called the old man, see Ephesians 4:22. This sin nature paves the path for sinfulness in our lives. How did we get this old man nature? Adam and Eve's transgression. They sinned and caused all humankind to have a sinful nature. Boy, we need a savior! Oh, yeah we have one.
Ephesians 4:22-24 tells us that we are to put off the old man and put on the new man. What is this new man? It is the gift of eternal life that we received when we got born again.
Being partakers of the divine nature, see II Peter 1:4, does not mean our character is automatically holy at the new birth. We need to put on the mind of Christ.
I have introduced the above in order to set the stage for Ephesians 2:1-6. We were all “dead in trespasses and sins”
As far as our spiritual state at our earthly birth, we were all dead in trespasses and sins.
Those who have done Romans 10:9 have been saved from that plight.
We can walk and should walk in the newness of life that salvation makes available to us. See Romans 6:4. and the context.
Yes we were all born with a sin nature, but we can over come that first by receiving salvation, the gift of God, then by living according to the written word, ie, by putting on the new man, the mind of Christ as given in Romans through Thessalonians.
What a wonderful God to rescue us from ourselves.
Hi Barley:
You say:
Quote We were all born with a sin nature, called the old man, see Ephesians 4:22. The sin nature becomes our nature when we yield to temptation and sin. Children of born again Christians are not born separated from God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 24 2010,12:09) Hi Barley: You say:
Quote We were all born with a sin nature, called the old man, see Ephesians 4:22. The sin nature becomes our nature when we yield to temptation and sin. Children of born again Christians are not born separated from God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
94your explanation by using EPH 4;22 is not supported in that scripture because Paul talks to adults and convert people ,not relate to new born children
Pierre
To all,
We are not conceived with sin since we are each responcible for our own actions. I do not know if one is capable of sin in their mother's womb though I believe one is not accountable for their own sin for some time after they leave their mother's womb.
On the other hand we are conceived with a corrupt spirit that we inherited from our ancestors. It is in living by that spirit that we choose to sin and so all men but Jesus sinned.
Jesus was not either not born with that corrupt spirit or had it and a righteous spirit because God chose to have mercy on him as God has mercy on who he has mercy and compassion on who he has compassion.
This all goes to make what Paul teaches us in Romans 5:12-21 true.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,12:27) Hi KW,
You keep teaching about a corrupt spirit.
Do you have any scriptural support yet?
Do you know what a corrupt spirit is yet?Kerwin,
You are confusing 'Sinful nature' with 'Acting in Sin'.
We are all 'born in Sin' but have the potential to follow Jesus' lead and resist 'the Act of Sinning'.
If we were not in a sinful nature, what need would there be to repent. And if we feel that we don't need to repent then we make Jesus' commission a futile one…and crucify him again.
Isaiah 56:1.
So, rather madly, then…a mother who desires her child to go to heaven need only 'kill' her child in the womb or immediately after birth and that child is then guaranteed to be sinless, in your opinion and will go to heaven…,yes?
JustAskin,
You may be correct and I may be misunderstanding the question asked by this thread.
I do believe that human beings are conceived or at least born with the ability and inclination to be tempted by evil as even Jesus was tempted even as we are. That ability and inclination is what I would call the sinful nature. That nature is known to be with us even after we receive the spirit of righteousness.
I understand the question of this sin to mean one is guilty of sin in much the same way a thief is guilty of theft even though they are not currently committing the deed. It is true that at some time all people but Jesus adopt sin as a way of life though I am not sure when that occurs. Technically it could be prior to birth but not prior to conception. In other words we do not inherit the guilt of our ancestors though we do suffer repercussions from their sinful ways.
One of those repercussions is that we inherit a spirit that was corrupted by the sins of our fathers.
I am unsure if the corrupt spirit and the sinful nature are one and the same or if they are different. I am also unsure whether the breath of life and the spirit that guides us are one and the same.’
We repent for our sinful way of life and thus make a pledge before God to change it and so seek him with all our heart, mind, and soul.
I believe God judges the soul and so each is judged according to what they know. I do not know how a child who is unaccountable for their sin is judged. I do know God is just and all knowing so he would know what path the child would choose if given a choice. I also know I cannot even try to second guess him.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi KW,
As soon as we find it in scripture we can all know about this corrupt spirit.
But there is no corrupt spirit of man there.
Should we ask you?Nick,
In you do not understand what a corrupt spirit is how will you reconize it if you read about it? That is why I asked if you knew what a corrupt spirit is. There is no purpose to quote scripture that you cannot understand because of your lack of knowledge of words and ideas.
I can tell you what and how I have learned. In Galatians 5 we are instructed to live according to the ways of the spirit and so I conclude you live according to the spirit. A man who sins is obviously not living according to a righteous spirit and if the spirit is not righteous it is corrupt. This explains why God commands those who sin to get a new spirit.
In many ways I am still learning so what I have learned is limited as I told Just Askin.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi KW,
The Holy Spirit in a submitted servant of Christ is a teacher of righteousness and this holy seed naturally produces good fruit.
The life of Jesus and his brothers is the expression of God's nature and abilities in men.
This Spirit is the NEW SPIRIT we are givenQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,15:45) Hi KW,
We are people of the Word.
But you would offer your ideas as equivalent?
Nick,I am pointing out what I understand when I read scripture. I am sure that understanding come from God because it is in tune with the nature of God. You on the other hand seem to have difficulty with the letter of the law and therefore fail to actually understand what God is teaching you.
That is why I choose to seek for the answer to the question “what is a spirit?”. I explained the answer to that question I obtain from reading scripture and I pointed out the scripture that I obtained it from. Galatians 5 is not the only scripture that tells us about the function of a spirit. Jesus teaches us of the counselor in John 14:26.
Why do you believe we would require a new spirit if we already have a holy spirit? In fact if that were true there would be no need for the secound covenant, or for that matter the death of Jesus, at all.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
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