Are the sons of God the angels?

This topic contains 170 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 1 year ago.

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  • #814979
     t8 
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    Angel and woman by Louis Jean Francios Lagrenee

    This teacher’s opinion is that the sons of God in scripture are not angels. And by reason of that, neither did angels have relations with women and produce giants on the earth. What do you think?

    Only sensible truth seekers please. Argumentative fools, please do not participate in this discussion.

    Part 1

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    #815169
     942767 
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    No, the sons of God are not angels in Genesis 6.  Angels are not able to procreate.

    And, God has never has said to anyone or any angels “Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee.”  Angels are the sons of God but they are not begotten of God.  Men in the OT who were under the Law of God were not begotten of God, but they are called the sons of God.

    This person also explains away the virgin birth and believes that Jesus was born of the sperm of Joseph.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

     

    #815170
     kerwin 
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    @t8, @942767, and anyone else;
    He has Hebrews 1:5-7 incorrect.

    The title Son is about symbolism and not the body. Of course his argument is good against those that claim the angels were created from the body of God. It is also good against the same claim about the “form of God” being the form of angels when interpreting Philippians 2:7.

    #815404
     t8 
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    Kewrin, does the “form of God” in your opinion being the form of angels mean ‘spirit’?

    #816950
     NickHassan 
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    Hi 94,

    Why would you define the abilities of God’s angelic servants?

    The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.

    #817046
     t8 
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    Nick, you missed the point completely. Perhaps the subject is a bit difficult. If so, feel free to discuss another topic that you fully understand. I will assist you with this one anyway.

    Genesis 6
    Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

    You said “The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.” I agree. But your reference in context with Genesis 6 would then assume that these sons of God did this because they were led by the Spirit of God. See that? I hope you now see your conundrum.

    #817049
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    The angelic sons of God are mentioned in Jb 38.7 and Ps 89.6

    The Romans 8 14-19 reference seems unlikely to relate in terms of context as it is about men.

    It seems that Jude 6 may align with the sons of Genesis 6?

    #817050
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    We can also see from Jb 1.6f, Jb 2.1f. how our gracious and tolerant Father relates to the angelic sons.

    We know that not all of His angels are faithful to His rule and a third of them are cast from heaven. Rev 12.7 f

    #817055
     Jael 
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    Yes, I believe that the sons of God are the holy angels of heaven, the spirit dwellers who God created to help oversee, and maintain by order, his creation.

    Satan is/was the greatest of these spirit sons and as such he demanded to be worshipped by creation just as almighty God is worshipped.

    Many many Christians are horrified at the idea that Satan was THE SPIRIT ruler over Almighty God’s creation because they always want to say that it was Jesus Christ…

    I’m amused (sorry!) to ask them what it was that Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness about this.

    Did Satan say, ‘All this (referring to creation) I will give to you if you bow down and worship me! IT IS MINE TO GIVE TO WHOM I WILL!’

    Again, scriptures tells us that in the new world will by no means be subject to the order of Angels.

    Cap this with Revelations: ‘They (the Elect) will rule as kings and priest with Christ over the earth (which is creation!)’

    What do you see in all that?

    Christians say, ‘We don’t believe Satan ruled anything!’. Yet they read Jesus christ’s own words ‘The ruler of the world is coming to his kingdom and he is angry…!’ and they still deny the truth… How sad are Christians who CHERRYPICK their belief!!

    Brothers, be not afraid of the truth. This world was subject to the rule by the spirit sons of God. God has seen that this is unsatisfactory as an eternal arrangement and is going to put in place a rulership by humankind led by Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus will be ‘GOD OVER CREATION’…not ‘God over all’: Jesus will not be God over the heavenly spirit kingdom… How do Christians read the scriptures and not see this: God Almighty is GOD OF ALL GODS!! So though we may call this one ‘God’ and that one ‘Lord’, there is for me only ONE who is GOD and Lord OVER ALL who are so-called GODS and Lords: The Father.

    The holy sons of Almighty God rejoice!!

    The demon sons of Satan nash their teeth in fear!!

    #817060
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    He was the greatest angelic son? Is it written?

    It seems more likely to be that earth was his appointed place. Jb1

    Jesus called him the prince of this world did he not?

    We know from Daniel that there are princes who rule areas.

     

    Our part is to help the Kingdom of God come to earth as it is in heaven.

    #817071
     Jael 
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    Hi Nick, it is written in scriptures.

    It is also written that ‘It is taken away from the first and given to a second’.

    The Angel called Satan held a governing position as ruler over creation but only as a steward. It was always destined that a human would rise to become ruler and that was the privilege of Satan to do so: ‘It is mine to give to whom I will!’

    However, that privilege was removed from him after he sinned and was proved to be whom he became. After Jesus proved himself Satan was proved unviable as a holy Angel to all and was thrown down from the heavenly place: he was STILL in heaven until that point; ‘I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightening’, Jesus said, and ‘Woe to the world – Now the ruler of this world has come into his kingdom with much anger!’.

    Nick, can I suggest that the angelic ruler of the world would be an angel originally held in the highest esteem  by almighty God?

    #817073
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Thank you.

    Can you please show your scripture trail for these conclusions.

    #817074
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Satan took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory saying he would give them to Jesus if Jesus fell down and worshiped him. He claimed dominion over earthly things and said he could give it to whomever he wished. Jesus did not correct him

    Lk 4. Mt 4

    He did not claim to be ruler over all creation.

    #817075
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Why should tiny earth be rated as so important to God that a top Angel was put in charge?

    Job 1 suggests that Satan had heavenly access but not that he lived in heaven.

    #817083
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Were you referring to Heb 10 when the Jewish sacrifices were replaced by the one sacrifice for sin in the death of Jesus Christ?

    That does not relate to the loss of earthly rule by Satan.

    #817084
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Or were you referring to Matt 21 when the kingdom was taken away from the Jews and given to another people who will produce fruit.

    Satan is not directly involved here either.

    #817092
     Jael 
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    Hi Nick,

    You asked me to show evidence of the statements I made concerning Satan being the highest Angel in heaven and his prominence as the steward over creation (spoken of as ‘All the kingdoms of the world’.

    Well, can I start by expressing my dismay that you do not already know these things causing you to need to ask.

    It surprises me that the truth of the scriptures is a foreign world that has denied you access to its glory that is actually fully open to all who desire to find it. That truth and that door is symbolised by the one holy and sinless son of God, the man Jesus Christ, the receiver in glory of the rulership over creation.

    Nick, when the scriptures refers to ‘earth’ or ‘kingdoms of the world’, it is not referring to the physical planet called ‘EARTH’. It is referring to ‘The WHOLE OF CREATION’.

    Nick, do you believe the words of Satan that he would hand over the rulership to Jesus if Jesus worshipped him? Obviously Satan was deceptive in that if Jesus did worship him, Satan would become Jesus’ God in place of the true God. Jesus knew exactly what Satan was saying… He also knew what Satan DIDNT say openly… That Jesus could avoid the pain, suffering, humiliation, …and death, that was his road to receiving the glory of becoming the ruler over creation.

    Imagine how much temptation that was to perform a simple little act and profess your allegiance to HIM and what he would suffer would be put away… Jesus sweated blood in fervent prayer to the Father but finally gave way to the will of God.

    Nick, do you believe what Jesus said… That the ruler of the world is coming into his kingdom? Nick, do you believe that the WORLD and the kingdoms of the world apply only to planet Earth?

    Nick, is your objection to the truth based on your reading (or rather, NON-reading) of the scriptures?

    I would warrant that nothing you could devise, nothing you can put to this forum, nothing from you that is the truth, could explain or show any truer truth over what has been said already that you object to.

    – God placed Angels in authority and power over ever aspect of his creation

    – The Angel come to be known as Satan was in the highest place: ‘Thou has walked on the mountain of God’ and is undoubtedly the leader of the demonic Angels after the fall of mankind. No demon Angel is greater than the one called Satan.

    – The rulership over the creation was only ever STEWARDED to the Angels. Earthly man was born historically ill equipped to take up the glory of managing creation: ‘Even though he is a prince, as a child he is subject to a place no different to that of a servant’. Mature mankind was always destined to take over the rulership from its steward placeholders: the Angels. ADAM, firstborn of humanity, was the original destined as the holy son of God to take over the rulership. He sinned, and another was put in place: Jesus Christ… To him, Jesus Christ, was given that glory when he, Jesus Christ, did what Adam did not do…refused the bad and accepted the good.

    And, Nick, how could Satan ‘fall from heaven’ if he went in heaven… In the timeline of humanity, why was Satan only thrown out of heaven tens of thousands of years after Satan deceived mankind in the garden of Eden? Can it be suggested that it was because great leaders are not taken out of their power UNTIL they have been proved categorically to have committed a worthy wrong – the greatest godly crime possible.

    Almighty God is ‘a just God’. He fears no one… Retaining Satan in heaven until Satan was proved wrong IS a fully just action. Almighty God afforded Satan ever opportunity to prove his point without restraint. Finally, he allowed his only holy and sinless son to suffer mercilessly at the hands of Satan. Jesus Christ held out against the mighty angelic ‘Father of the lie’: ‘And no place was found for him [Satan]’.

    Nick, thank you for providing yourself as a spiritual weight to help me flex my spiritual muscles and build up strength in the truth of scriptures, of Almighty God, and of Christ Jesus.

    #817100
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    And how did you come to the conclusion that EARTH means the whole of creation?

    If seems that you have added a lot of speculation into your claim that Satan was in the HIGHEST place.

    Since truth is found by two or three witnesses(2 Cor 13) it rather seems you rely on single verses to which you add personal opinion.

     

    If you want us to take you seriously you must show more scholarship.

     

    #817104
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Do you accept that truth cannot be asserted on the basis of one scripture?

    Do you agree that God wants us to tests all things and scripture is proven by scripture?

     

     

    #817105
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Why did you decide that the KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH did not mean what is says

    but means the whole of creation??

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