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Hi T8,
I'm glad you understand the point now.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ June 26 2012,21:00) Let's say for argument sake that it is an adjective, then that means mentions of the Angel of the LORD or other angels could be adjective too.
Hi T8,Yes, but that does not make your case either.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIt does make the case because men are also called or described as malak/angels/messengers as are heavenly beings.
Edj, if can refute what I have said, then do it. Don't ask me to go scratching around for something to refute myself.
Stop being lazy and do your own refuting.
Guys, if Edj is asking you to refute yourself, feel free to copy and paste the bolded sentence above and reply with that.
And if he complies, then we can have a look at HIS evidence.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2012,15:54) Amen t8! And I don't see how Nick concluded this is a “home of deception” if the scriptural truth of the matter prevailed in the end.
Well said Mike. That is a good point.Quote (t8 @ June 26 2012,21:32) It does make the case because men are also called or described as malak/angels/messengers as are heavenly beings. Edj, if can refute what I have said, then do it. Don't ask me to go scratching around for something to refute myself.
Stop being lazy and do your own refuting.
Guys, if Edj is asking you to refute yourself, feel free to copy and paste the bolded sentence above and reply with that.
And if he complies, then we can have a look at HIS evidence.
Hi T8,It's your job to prove your case not me and so far you have not done that.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ June 26 2012,21:32) It does make the case because men are also called or described as malak/angels/messengers as are heavenly beings. Edj, if can refute what I have said, then do it. Don't ask me to go scratching around for something to refute myself.
Stop being lazy and do your own refuting.
Guys, if Edj is asking you to refute yourself, feel free to copy and paste the bolded sentence above and reply with that.
And if he complies, then we can have a look at HIS evidence.
Hi T8,That is 'spin' – big time on your part.
I'm simply giving you “the conditions” that
would prove your case; which you have not met.
If you don't want to scratch around to prove your point …that's OK with me.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgLook at my first question in this discussion Edj.
Quote My first question to you requires a yes, no, or I don't know answer. Are men ever called “angels” or given the description, “angel” in the bible?
Nick was unable to refute that men are not called or described as malak/angels/messengers.So Edj, if you have a refutation let's hear it.
Otherwise do it yourself because we obviously do not have a refutation.I usually charge $75 p/h if you want me to do a job for you however.
I take direct credit and even an overseas cheque will do, just add in an extra $20 bucks for a bank fee.
Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2012,01:04) It's your job to prove your case not me and so far you have not done that.
Did prove it.If that proof is not enough for you, then refute the proof.
Don't ask others to do what you should do.
Usually when you refute it requires an action from the refuter.
Thought that would be obvious.
Imagine if I wanted you to prove your number theory. So far you have no proof, but if I was to refute you, I would need to show some proof that your view point was wrong, weak, or one-sided. I could provide that proof if I could be bothered but I have more important things to do. But what if I asked you to provide this proof instead of me. Not that words add up, but that only God's words add up and sentences that are not true do not. In this scenario, I would require you to prove to me that you have tried out sentences that are obviously not true, nevertheless, they add up to other sentences that do tell the truth. In the whole time you preach this number phenomena, you have never shown how sentences that are not true do not match some sentences that are true. So imagine if I asked you for that. And if you said to me that I was being lazy and to do it myself, you would be right about that because that would be my job as I am the one driving the point.
So how about a bit of sobriety on your behalf Edj? If not, then do we need to send you on a journey of numbers where sentences that are wrong can be made to match sentences that are right? And if I made you do that, what is your hourly rate?
Quote (t8 @ June 26 2012,22:31) Look at my first question in this discussion Edj. Quote My first question to you requires a yes, no, or I don't know answer. Are men ever called “angels” or given the description, “angel” in the bible?
Nick was unable to refute that men are not called or described as malak/angels/messengers.So Edj, if you have a refutation let's hear it.
Otherwise do it yourself because we obviously do not have a refutation.I usually charge $75 p/h if you want me to do a job for you however.
I take direct credit and even an overseas cheque will do, just add in an extra $20 bucks for a bank fee.
Hi T8,As far as I know: men are never called “angels”
but have been given the description angel.
Is this also what you believe as well?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI think that they are called angels and the scriptures I gave certainly say that in the English translations.
However, even if it turns out in Hebrew that humans are only described as angels, then so too are heavenly ones because the language structure is likely the same for both somewhere if we look at all examples.
My point was never to say that men are Seraphs or Cherubs, but that men and these other beings are all described as angels/messengers, and are called that too.
The word man and angel is also often interchangeable in scripture.
Quick question. Earlier in this post I said that Haggai was called the prophet of YHWH and also the angel/messenger of YHWH. You obviously disagree that he is an angel/messenger of YHWH.
So my question is, “do you also disagree that he is also a prophet?”.
Quote Haggai 1:3
Then came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet, saying,…Haggai 1:13
Then spake Haggai the LORD'S messenger in…Hi T8,
It is you who is calling him an Angel, not the bible.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgOK, so you say that he is a prophet, but NOT a malak/angel/messenger.
Yet all English translations in deed say say otherwise.Please provide your evidence for why you disagree with the translators by showing us where they have erred and how it should be translated. Remember, this is the Hot Seat.
Scripture references for you are Haggai 1:13, Malachi 2:7.
In the process, if you could explain why he is a prophet and not a malak, that would also help us to understand your view.
Thanks.
Quote (t8 @ June 26 2012,05:31) I usually charge $75 p/h if you want me to do a job for you however
Hey, we make the same income, t8!Oh wait, that's a SEVEN? I thought it was a ONE!
Anyway, since I work much cheaper than t8, let me try to solve this dilemma and save Ed some money.
Ed, I agree that SCRIPTURE doesn't call any human being an “ANGEL”. But then, SCRIPTURE doesn't use the word “ANGEL” at all. Scripture only uses the words “malak”, which means MESSENGER, and “aggelos”, which means MESSENGER.
It is English translators who have decided to use the word “ANGEL” when they were certain that the MESSENGER in question was a spirit being.
And IF the English word “angel” refers to a messenger of God who is a SPIRIT BEING, then no, there is no man who is an “angel”.
Ed, I suggest you read Young's Literal Translation. You will not find the word “angel” in the entire Bible as translated by him. He uses the word “messenger” each and every time for “malak” and “aggelos” – even when it is clear from context that the messenger was a spirit being. I believe this is how all English Bibles should have been translated.
Then the question that you and Nick hounded me about would be answered without all this other nonsense. Because the question would be: Has Jesus ever been a messenger of God? And the answer would be YES. And the next question would be: Has Jesus ever been a SPIRIT messenger of God? And the answer would also be YES.
And that would be the end of it.
(Ed, that'll be $1.37, because it didn't take too much time.
)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2012,13:17) Hey, we make the same income, t8! Oh wait, that's a SEVEN? I thought it was a ONE!
Flippin burgers for $15p/h is still a job. Any job is a good one bro.
Quote (t8 @ June 27 2012,20:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2012,13:17) Hey, we make the same income, t8! Oh wait, that's a SEVEN? I thought it was a ONE!
Flippin burgers for $15p/h is still a job. Any job is a good one bro.
if you like the jobQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2012,13:17) (Ed, that'll be $1.37, because it didn't take too much time. )
You gonna put me out of business charging that price.Quote (t8 @ June 27 2012,09:39) OK, so you say that he is a prophet, but NOT a malak/angel/messenger.
Yet all English translations in deed say say otherwise.Please provide your evidence for why you disagree with the translators by showing us where they have erred and how it should be translated. Remember, this is the Hot Seat.
Scripture references for you are Haggai 1:13, Malachi 2:7.
In the process, if you could explain why he is a prophet and not a malak, that would also help us to understand your view.
Thanks.
Hi T8, you are blurring the issue here.The bible does not call men Angels, but messengers.
Angels are referred to as other than human: examples…1. Luke 1:26
2. Luke 22:43
3. John 5:4
4. Jude 1:9English makes clear this distinction, a distinction that you appear to be re-blurring.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ June 27 2012,09:39) OK, so you say that he is a prophet, but NOT a malak/angel/messenger.
Yet all English translations in deed say say otherwise.Please provide your evidence for why you disagree with the translators by showing us where they have erred and how it should be translated. Remember, this is the Hot Seat.
Scripture references for you are Haggai 1:13, Malachi 2:7.
In the process, if you could explain why he is a prophet and not a malak, that would also help us to understand your view.
Thanks.
Hi T8,I agree that the limited languages of Hebrew and Greek use the word for Angel as messenger as well.
So you are fighting your shadow if you think I oppose this.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2012,10:17) Ed, I agree that SCRIPTURE doesn't call any human being an “ANGEL”. But then, SCRIPTURE doesn't use the word “ANGEL” at all. Scripture only uses the words “malak”, which means MESSENGER, and “aggelos”, which means MESSENGER.
Hi Mike,Yes Angel is the English word for Angelic beings. And
messenger is the English word for one who brings messages.I see we are all in agreement on the specifics now. I hope
our discussion has helped those readers unfamiliar with this issue.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
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