- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I have been thinking about the 2 Th 2:3-4 and on who the anti-christ is.
2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Is Jesus as God (the Son) the same as the son of perdition sitting in the temple of God – and is Yahshua the Son of Yahweh someone different?
Paul in the scriptures say that we are the temple of God (Yahweh) – He does not live in a house.
I hear people say that you do not worship the God that I worship and is that because in christianity Yahweh and Yahshua have been replaced with a trinity God?
The trinity doctrine is part of the deception and just a part of the lie, the virgin birth is another, the name of Jesus is part of the deception and how the switch ocurred.
Hi Sis Meerkat,
Another good topic you have chosen. I hope others also will see it and contribute. Here are my few thoughts on this topic;1. Jesus never told that he was God or the second person of the Triune Godhead where as Anti-christ will claim that he is God and will demand worship him as God.
2. In Rom 1 it says;
22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.According to this God is not to be equated with any image like that of animals or men therefore Jesus can not be worshipped as God as being made as human being in birth.
3. Jesus came in the name of the Father God but Anti-christ will come in his own name (Jn 5:43). Jesus was an Vice regent of God the Father and no time he claimed to be God but Anti-christ will do the reverse.
4. Jesus was and is a man mediator between One God and men (1 Tim 2:5) but Anti-christ will claim he is the supreme God.
5. God was in Christ Jesus and reconcilled the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:19) but not that Jesus himself was God where as Anti-christ will claim as if he himself is the God.
Like this I can go on and on distinguishing real Christ and Anti-christ. You are right in saying; “I hear people say that you do not worship the God that I worship and is that because in christianity of Yahweh and Yahshua have been replaced with a trinity God?” I also often question them; have we replaced God with Jesus the man chosen by God? if so we are very closure to the time of revelation of Anti-christ the Son of perdition as foretold by St Paul in 2 Thess 2 and also as you have already quoted above.
Let us wait and see how others contribute on this new topic.
Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Dec. 10 2008,19:51) Hi Sis Meerkat,
Another good topic you have chosen. I hope others also will see it and contribute. Here are my few thoughts on this topic;1. Jesus never told that he was God or the second person of the Triune Godhead where as Anti-christ will claim that he is God and will demand worship him as God.
That is something that I have realised lately that Jesus said he was the Son of God and trinitarians read God (the Son) and will argue that the Son of God means God (the Son)
Quote
2. In Rom 1 it says;
22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.According to this God is not to be equated with any image like that of animals or men therefore Jesus can not be worshipped as God as being made as human being in birth.
Agreed, It gave me a fright when I realized what this meant. What do you think about where people “worshipped” Jesus? – I have heard the argument that because we are to worship God only and Jesus allowed people to worship him that he must be God.
Adam,
Thanks for your input ……..hoping for more as well
Also what are your thoughts on the Sabbath? I am of the opinion that the Sabbath is still a sign of obedience – in Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. To me it means the 10 commandments as summarised by Jesus in Matt 22:37-40 Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.
Meerkat……I believe the man of Sin is not a real person, it is a (LIE) about a real person (JESUS) who sits in the temple and is being shown as very God Himself. This (LIE) will be abolished at the return of Jesus Himself , Notice in the text the part about it being a (LIE) and also it will be (ABOLISHED) not destroyed but Abolished, A person would be destroyed, but a LIE would BE ABOLISHED , and how by the (BRIGHTNESS) or (TRUTH) by HIS (MOUTH) at His coming. Ask yourself what will be (ABOLISHED) by His Mouth through brightness (truth) at his coming, it's the (LIE),> and that LIE is that JESUS is GOD HIMSELF> the false teaching of the TRINITY>
AS far as the Sabbath is concerned ” we that believe Have entered into that rest, Sabbath was a sign of ceasing from our works, and we that believe must cease from our work and let the spirit of God work in Us and if this is happening it's is no longer Us working but the FATHER in Us doing the works. AS it was with Jesus, who said He could of himself do nothing , but the Father in Him did the works. It's not a physical Day, it a spiritual eternity. The Spiritual Sabbath is a sign of conversion of ceasing of works of the flesh. It is an eternal commandment.
love and peace to you and yours…………………..gene
Gene,
Thanks for that, things were not quite working in that when does the antichrist (man of sin) step out and Jesus take his place – Jesus is there and the lies are hiding who he really is and when he returns the lies are exposed. Do you think it is only the trinity lie or all the lies that are a problem and related to the man of sin? – to me it seems there is a lot of deception, almost like a web and one leads to another.
1 John 2:18 (New International Version)
Warning Against Antichrists
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.DK…….Even at the time of Paul and John, the Gnostic's were trying to transform The Man Jesus into a GOD, Saying He was a good God that came from the Palora , but the apostles were suppressing it or as said were holding it back, for as long as they lived they keep it in check, “for now you know what is holding it back that it might be reviled in its time. The Gnostic were the first to push the idea of another God on Christianity and later when the Greeks and Egyptian, and Romans got involved their Ideologies of man Gods pushed there way into the church. Paul know that this false teaching of another GOD, was going to pollute true Christianity,And he also new it was already taking shape and John knew it also.
When John wrote about the Anti Christ's already existing, He ties this in “Whosoever denies Jesus came in the (FLESH) is anti-Christ. Why say this , it was because there were Gnostic's and other trying to make Jesus in a GOD. Notice He also repeated it in three places. Even though in most bibles its worded the second time as whose ever Believes Jesus came not is not of God, the text was altered leaving out the second repeat of (IN THE FLESH), John was adamant about us viewing Jesus as a flesh and blood human being, Not a GOD MAN, Those who were trying to corrupt True Christianity were even at work then, John had already read Paul's letters about it i believe, and was trying to keep this false teaching at bay.
peace and love brother too you and yours……………..gene
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 11 2008,07:26) Gene, Thanks for that, things were not quite working in that when does the antichrist (man of sin) step out and Jesus take his place – Jesus is there and the lies are hiding who he really is and when he returns the lies are exposed. Do you think it is only the trinity lie or all the lies that are a problem and related to the man of sin? – to me it seems there is a lot of deception, almost like a web and one leads to another.
Meerkat…….Scripture says (THE LIE) not many but a particular LIE a singular LIE but a BIG ONE. It has corrupted all Christendom and will continue until Jesus HIMSELF comes and ABOLISHES IT. The man of Sin who Sits in the temple of GOD being displayed as a GOD is the Biggest single LIE ever TOLD. That one being displayed as a GOD is JESUS HIMSELF. Remember GOD Commanded. YOU shall have (NO) other GOD Besides ME> Jesus was just like you and me and He had a GOD and it wasn't him, “for i am going to my God and your God , my Father and your Father”. To understand this is truely a blessing given from GOD.love and peace to you and yours…………….. gene
Hi brother Gene,
Thank you very much for coming on this another interesting thread opened by our Sis Meerkat. I know this is also your pet topic. I think your whole research on this topic can be shared here. While agreeing with you on stating Anti-christ is a Lie on Jesus projecting him as God, I still feel Anti-christ will also be person who will fulfill this wish and Lie of people.Hi Sis Meerkat,
Regarding Keeping Sabbath-I don't know fully whether we being Gentile christians have to keep it. I personally feel that it is only a symbolic day observation for the Israelites like circumcision. It may not be binding on us, Gentile believers. Please see this verse in Col 2:14-16“Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
Hope this will clear your doubts on keeping Sabbath.
Thanks and love to you
AdamAdam,
I think that Sabbath does have a significance in as much as it is the day that God hallowed – he did that before Israel was named as his chosen nation (which is a type of spiritual Israel) I think the ordinances that were done away with was all the sacrificial feasts and days (they were a type for the passover lamb (Jesus) pentecost (spirit poured out) and tabernacles (to come) , what has happened was Sabbath was transferred to Sunday and that is named after the sun. I think that I am being called to be aware of who God is (actually Yahweh) who Jesus is (actually Yashua) and that 25th December is a pagan sun-god birthday, the trinity is pagan, I believe that the virgin birth has its origin with the trinity and I believe there is more ……………..
Hi Sis Meerkat,
I think we are deviating from the this topic. We better deal this on another thread on Sabbath.
Thanks for reply.Blessings
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 11 2008,12:58) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 11 2008,07:26) Gene, Thanks for that, things were not quite working in that when does the antichrist (man of sin) step out and Jesus take his place – Jesus is there and the lies are hiding who he really is and when he returns the lies are exposed. Do you think it is only the trinity lie or all the lies that are a problem and related to the man of sin? – to me it seems there is a lot of deception, almost like a web and one leads to another.
Meerkat…….Scripture says (THE LIE) not many but a particular LIE a singular LIE but a BIG ONE. It has corrupted all Christendom and will continue until Jesus HIMSELF comes and ABOLISHES IT. The man of Sin who Sits in the temple of GOD being displayed as a GOD is the Biggest single LIE ever TOLD. That one being displayed as a GOD is JESUS HIMSELF. Remember GOD Commanded. YOU shall have (NO) other GOD Besides ME> Jesus was just like you and me and He had a GOD and it wasn't him, “for i am going to my God and your God , my Father and your Father”. To understand this is truely a blessing given from GOD.love and peace to you and yours…………….. gene
Gene,I have been thinking about this and I think it has something to do with “the false hood” as opposed to “the truth” – but yes I agree that the trinity is central.
Also the word translated as wicked is anomos an'-om-os: lawless, i.e. (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication, a Gentile), or (positively) wicked — without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
as you say – fits with thou shalt have no other God besides me.
meerkat……….Yes the (TRINITY) brakes the Law of GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD'S, BESIDES ME', so creating another GOD is wickedness and lawlessness. The man of sin is Not a real person It is a LIE, ABOUT A REAL PERSON, JESUS HIMSELF, and Jesus Himself WILL totally abolish it at His return by the word (spirit) OF HIS MOUTH. If only more could understand this, Sister.
love and peace to you and yours……………….gene
The lie is given right at the start, as soon as someone starts asking questions eternal torment is brought up as a means of control, and also the fear of being deceived by “new doctrine” keeps you deceived – the lies started along with the truth very early on, so they can be defended as “the doctrine that was first received”
I believe that there is a central controlling point of all the messengers of satan (our human nature) there is too much co-ordination for it to be produced just by individuals. Our individual human natures are not corporately “Satan” just as the combined sons of God are not “the Christ”
Meerkat…..when we are born we have a totally neutral mind, neither good or evil. John said all the is in the world is (FROM) the world Sin entered into the world by ADAM and Eves human Carnal natures they were created with. And Life which consists of good and evil was there also because without good and evil life cannot be defined. one knows good because of evil and evil because of good they explain each other. God wanted us to experience good and evil in order to gain wisdom and to come to know both good and evil first hand. We needed to experience both to become more like GOD Himself. “look man has become like us knowing good and evil”. God did not say to Adam and Eve not to Know good and evil, He said not to take it to themselves (eat) to produce from them (SELF) like a tree does, that knowledge of good and evil. I think i am getting off subject, so I'll stop there.
love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi mk,
Messengers of satan are not our own human nature.
They are messengers of satan.
One troubled Paul2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.To All……the subject of the Anti-Christ is one of the most not understood subject in the entire bible i believe. When we begin to see first it is A LIE from the apostate Churches, we then can look for that LIE some clues given were this LIE was already trying to start even at the time of the Apostles but they were able to suppress it. John gives us some clues He seems to tie the idea of Jesus being perceived as not coming in the Flesh as part of the problem, this teaching goes back to the gnostic' s that existed in John's time, they believed that Jesus was not a real man but came out from the Pelora and really was a GOD despised as a man, who came to straighten out what a bad GOD made. So this trying to transfer Jesus from a man to a GOD plain was already at work, that why John said there were already many Anti-Christs even then. He repeated the warning in three places although one of the has bee removed, by translators. but some bibles still have them all in there.
the Man of Sin LIE has to do also with changing the man into a God ( He is said to be sitting in the temple of God being displayed as a GOD, and receiving All Worship even above the true GOD, If you go into almost any Catholic or Protestant today you hardly Hear the man of the Father ever mentioned , its ONLY about Jesus, or Mary, and the Father is hardly ever mentioned. Because they did not want to hold GOD the Father Alone as the ONLY TRUE GOD, He sent into them a deluding Spirit in order for them to Believe (THE LIE)
This Lie has lead to many other leis as Meerkat has said, the Present Church today is totally corrupted by all these false teaching but the single most important one is Jesus is the God of all creation….which is taught by the DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY. It also plainly says that Jesus Himself will destory or abolish this LIE personally at his return.
My God help all to understand this……love and peace to you all………………gene
Gene,
I'm happy for the thread to go where it may …… I think a lot of things are related and I am trying to get an overall view of things.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2008,15:56) Hi mk,
Messengers of satan are not our own human nature.
They are messengers of satan.
One troubled Paul2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
God knew what he was doing when he says that “the lake of fire” which is the second death was prepared for the devil and his messengers – it is not coincidence when God is referred as a consuming fire and the “types” in Jewish religion of purifying with fire, and third is to be purified through fire.All abomination is cast into the “lake of fire” where it is destroyed and where exactly is it mentioned that actual demons are cast into the fire – the only ones who go in are the devil, the false prophet, the beast and all the ones who had been deceived by them. So all the deceived are the messengers of the devil and devil through the false prophet and beast have deceived the whole world – the elect/chosen are not of the world (they used to be)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
