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Hi Nick,
Just spit it out, man.
Is Jesus a living person with his own mind, will and responsibilities or not? Is he a separate being than God?
Peace and love,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2010,13:44) Hi MB,
The soul of Jesus Christ in his new heavenly lives by the Spirit of God.
Hi Nick,Paul said, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?”
I've noticed you do that alot. If you think I am interpreting Scripture incorrectly, say so plainly. Show me the Scriptures and your interpretation of them, so I may learn. What good are the “speaking in tongue” comments you make if you don't expand on them when asked. Are you helping a fellow Christian that way?
I've asked you plainly – If you think Jesus is no longer an individual person, show me Scriptures and your interpretation of them that supports your belief.
peace and love,
mikeHi MB,
Jesus died and his own spirit left him but he lives[1Peter3].
Only those who find the fountain of eternal Spirit life now in him live forever.[Jn7]
They have passed over from death to life and cannot face the second death being sons of the first resurrection.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2010,14:07) That is what Jesus wants for us too.[Jn17]
Hi Nick,Jesus the real live spirit person, or Jesus the figment of God's spirit who is not a real live individual?
Hi LU,
The Lord Jesus is the man from heaven.
In heaven with his God but both are accessible in communion in the Spirit.
If you are washed in the name of Jesus then ask your Father for His Spirit and you will understand.[Lk11]MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote I don't have any Hebrew roots. I am very happy that the God of the Hebrews has decided to let the other nations join in worshipping Him, though. And that He has allowed people from all nations the chance to be His children. Praise Jah!
Any Christian has Hebrew roots because God chose the Hebrew people to carry his word for thousands of years and then chose them from among all the nations to be the one to who his Son would be born. It is therefore not through genetics but rather through the true religion that you are related to the Hebrew people even though many of them have forsaken and rejected that religion.
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote How can all this be true, and Jesus still be a man?
Where in scripture does it state Jesus lowered himself to become a man?
I have read Hebrews 1:9 which states Jesus was made a little lower than the angels but then that is true of every human being, Psalms 4:5. I have also read Hebrews 1:3-4 which states that Jesus was made superior to angels “after”, not before, he provided purification for our sins and sat down at the right hand of God in heaven. That tells us of the authority God gave Jesus and not what type of being he is.
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.
Your interpretation of that passage has already been pointed out to be false since Paul would have known in 2 Corinthians 12:2 that the man he spoke of was out of body when he entered the third heaven. As it is Paul clearly states he did not. So we know that even mortal flesh and blood can enter the kingdom of heaven. What the scripture actually states is “inherit” and we know the corruptible cannot “inherit “the incorruptible. The tree of life has vegetable flesh and is incorruptible and exists in the third heaven and will continue to exist in God’s kingdom forever as far as I know.
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote Angels can see the face of God, men can't.
There are also scripture or scriptures that explicitly state men can see the face and live and even one that states Moses spoke to God face to face though I suppose God could have covered his face even as he spoke face to face with Moses. That is why I said that the issue bears further research and thought with prayers to God that he will reveal all that is needed on the issue.
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote He was raised to at least his previous glory and position.
Once again you are addressing an issue of authority and God gives people the gifts he chooses to give them for his own reasons. Where do you get the idea he has the same glory and position previously when states “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”, Matthew 28:18?
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote And remember that Scripture where God says Moses can't see His face? Check this out:
Thank you for Matthew 18:10 as it seems a good passage to further my understanding about the face of God.
MarkBoll64 reads:
Quote We can't say for sure what genotype would result from a human mother and God through His Holy Spirit as a father.
I will tell you what will not occur and that is a mixture of God’s genotype and humanities. Such an idea is an abomination to a monotheistic religion as then there would be more than one God. I do not even believe that God has a genotype. I also want to point out that scripture does tell us who Jesus’ ancestors are and they are all human beings except for God who created Adam and thus was called Adam’s father and the Father of all mankind.
Hi Jerry,
It is good that you feel you have received revelation from God.Did you 'test the SpiritIs it really true that 'we shall all be saved'?
Is this what Scriptures teaches?
We are, indeed, 'Actors' on a earth stage, and some if us have a written, fixed script (e.g. Judas Iscariot, Jezebel, Saul (After he sinned), Paul/Saul(after God called him), all the Prophets, Disciples, Apostles, Saints, and those others given over to Satan for his own – for, if God has chosen some for Himself (as Romans 11:4 testifies) then, having given leave to Satan to 'test' mankind and His order, how could He not give over some to His adversary, after all, He is the epitome of fairness)
1 Timothy 4:10 states that God 'is the Saviour of All men, especially those who believe', and so He is.But check it out: It is Jesus who Judges.
Many will be saved by Works, he that does the good deed in all honesty is doing the will of God, even if he does not know God (but may confess in the last hour).
And he who believes, through Christ, will also be saved. Both will be saved through the judgement of Christ.
But don't rest up by languishing in good deeds, if, once knowing Christ, you fall away. Nor, once being offered life through Christ, you say: 'I do not know him!', because then even with your good works, he will say to you at the judgement: 'Get away from me, I never knew you!'
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2010,17:02) Where in scripture does it state Jesus lowered himself to become a man?
Hi Kerwin,I doesn't actually use the words “lowered himself”. Sorry for misleading. But it says it in other words, IMO. Philippians 2:
Quote 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
You said:Quote Your interpretation of that passage has already been pointed out to be false The passage says:
Quote 1 Corinthians 15:50 NIV
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,Maybe “the Kingdom of God” is not the same as “heaven”. I'll take another look. But this part is hard to misinterpret:
Quote If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. So Jesus is still “a man” in heaven. But he is a “spirit man in heaven” now, not an earthling.
You said:
Quote Where do you get the idea he has the same glory and position previously when states “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”, Matthew 28:18? John 17
Quote 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. Doesn't that imply that his previous glory was better than what he had on earth?
You said:
Quote I will tell you what will not occur and that is a mixture of God’s genotype and humanities. How can you presume to say what is and is not possible with God? Aren't all of us a mix of God's spirit and other elements God created? And it seems the “mixture” did happen with Jesus:
Quote Matthew 1:18 NIV
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.God was the Father of earthly Jesus through His Holy Spirit.
peace and love
mikeMikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote I doesn't actually use the words “lowered himself”. Sorry for misleading.
I accept your apologies and am glad you corrected yourself when you realized your error. Still, exact words are not important but correctly understanding the ideas they are meant to express is.
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote But it says it in other words, IMO. Philippians 2:
It does not really state such. You have to remember that the true religion is a monotheistic religion which means there is but one God. If you remember that then you know that when it is written “Who, being in the form of God” it is not stating Jesus is a deity but that it is rather stating he has a characteristic in common with God. To figure out that characteristic just look at the statement that goes “your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus” which clearly indicates Paul is teaching us about the attitude of Jesus and not that he lowered himself from being a deity. Still teaching us they type of attitude we should have to emulate Jesus, Paul goes on to state “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!”
Paul can be confusing in his writing as in 1 Corinthians 1:49 he states that believers bear “the likeness of the earthly man” and will bear “the likeness of the man from heaven”. Does that mean that believers are not human beings of the mortal realm and will not be human citizens of the heavenly realm after they are changed from a perishable body to an imperishable one?
The answer I come up with is a human being is like a human being and for some reason the Spirit led Paul to phrase his ideas in such language.
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote Maybe “the Kingdom of God” is not the same as “heaven”. I'll take another look.
That sounds good! May God lead you to the truth!
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote But this part is hard to misinterpret:
Not really as you are inserting an “all” where “all” is not written. If you do not insert the “all” that you believe is implied then you would be left with the choice of Paul either speaking of all flesh and blood or some flesh and blood. If Paul means “all” then why did he previously state “All flesh is not the same” when making his point that the perishable body was different than imperishable body.
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote So Jesus is still “a man” in heaven. But he is a “spirit man in heaven” now, not an earthling.
That is a good way to word it though I am not sure you mean the same thing I do when I state “spirit man”.
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote Doesn't that imply that his previous glory was better than what he had on earth?
It does not. Jesus is asking God to fulfill the prophecy that existed with God before the beginning of the world. Philippians 2 states this with the words “he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!” I also believe Jesus was speaking of “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,” as his faith is great.
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote How can you presume to say what is and is not possible with God?
Scripture states it is impossible for God to do evil. Do you believe he would incite his people to break his own First commandment?
Exodus 20:3(NIV) reads:
Quote “You shall have no other gods before me.”
MikeBoll64 wrote:
Quote God was the Father of earthly Jesus through His Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit did not have sex with Mary. Scripture declares that Jesus will be a descendant of David and that can only happen if he had a human sire who was also a descendant of David or if he had no sire in which case decent is traced through Mary.
What Matthew 1:18 is telling us is that Jesus’ conception was miraculous. Joseph understood this when the angel told him in Matthew 1:20 and realized Mary was not guilty of any wrong. Cheating with the Holy Spirit would have been a violation of the Law.
God is the Father of Jesus’ Spirit which is also known as the Holy Spirit and which is why Jesus states “Father, just as you are in me and I am in you” in verse 21 of John 17.
Hi KW,
The words of God are tested and sacred.
They are not like those of the intellectual world from which you extract meanings.You need to respect the Word
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2010,12:12) Hi KW,
The words of God are tested and sacred.
They are not like those of the intellectual world from which you extract meanings.You need to respect the Word
You are the one who chooses to add to scripture so why should I view your words as creditable.Jesus is not a hybrid between humanity and God as he is intead the Mediator.
Nowhere in scripture does it state Jesus gave up his physical form. You are adding that.
So it is time that you took your own advice and showed repect for God's word instead of your own.
Hi KW,
Please show me where I have added to the word.
while you are at it can you yet show from scripture your theory of a corrupt spirit of mankind.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2010,13:18) Hi KW,
Please show me where I have added to the word.
while you are at it can you yet show from scripture your theory of a corrupt spirit of mankind.
How can I show you something that does not exist? You ask the impossible. Rather show me that what you state is backed up with scripture and is obedience to the intent of God.Where is it written that Jesus is a Spirit being with no physical reality?
I can and have showed you where it states he is a human being that mediated between mankind and God.
Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2010,19:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2010,13:18) Hi KW,
Please show me where I have added to the word.
while you are at it can you yet show from scripture your theory of a corrupt spirit of mankind.
How can I show you something that does not exist? You ask the impossible. Rather show me that what you state is backed up with scripture and is obedience to the intent of God.Where is it written that Jesus is a Spirit being with no physical reality?
I can and have showed you where it states he is a human being that mediated between mankind and God.
Hi Kerwin,How can Jesus and His Father(HolySpirit) make “Their” abode with us accept in “Spirit”? (John 4:24)
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father(HolySpirit) will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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