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Hi Mike,
you said:Quote You left out a word, Kathi. “That implies that ALL human beings brought forth an offspring” named Cain, not Abel. (Cain was the firstborn of ALL mankind. But that doesn't mean his father is ALL MANKIND, does it?) In the case of Cain, his father and mother were all mankind at the time.
Quote Jesus calls GOD “Father”. But that doesn't take away from the fact he was the one born first among ALL CREATION.
Creation was not created when Jesus was begotten Mike. He was the firstborn of God before creation. Creation came through Jesus.Quote Just like Cain called Adam “Father” and it doesn't take away from the fact that Cain was the one born first among ALL MANKIND. Well, because Cain was the firstborn of all mankind, that means that the members of mankind was his procreator. If Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, that would mean that the member/members of creation begat Him. We know that didn't happen since He is the Son of God and God begat Him. He is a member of the kind that God is, not a member of creation. The kind the father who begets the offspring is, determines the kind that the offspring is. The Father was not a member of the created kind.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2011,19:18)
In the case of Cain, his father and mother were all mankind at the time.
Ah, but many years later, I could STILL call Cain the “firstborn of all mankind”, and you would understand that “all mankind who ever existed up until this point” did not give birth to Cain. You would easily understand my statement to mean Cain was the firstborn AMONG those who came from human parents, wouldn't you? This is a “truth test” Kathi.Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2011,19:18)
Creation was not created when Jesus was begotten Mike. He was the firstborn of God before creation. Creation came through Jesus.
Right. Jesus was the FIRST one, and all others came through him. This is what the scriptures teach, Kathi. So even now, AFTER trillions of other things have been created through Jesus, we can STILL call Jesus the “firstborn of all creation”, meaning he was the first thing ever created.Kathi, was Jesus the first thing ever brought forth by God? YES or NO?
mike
Revelation 1:5 NASB ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—NRSV ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,Kathi, these are only two of the many translations that render this scripture as “firstborn OF the dead” – as the word “ek” can rightly be rendered. Do you understand this to mean:
1. Jesus was begotten BY dead people?
2. Jesus was the firstborn FROM AMONG the group of “dead people”, of which he WAS a member?
I'm sure you think the latter. Which leads me to believe that you are just pretending you can't understand that same language in Col 1:15…………..just because you don't WANT Jesus to have been AMONG THE GROUP of “created things”.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2011,22:19) Mike, Quote
Kathi, we are also said to be ONE with the Father.
Where?
Mike,
Did you answer this and I missed it or did you not answer this yet?Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,13:23) Revelation 1:5 NASB ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—NRSV ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,Kathi, these are only two of the many translations that render this scripture as “firstborn OF the dead” – as the word “ek” can rightly be rendered. Do you understand this to mean:
1. Jesus was begotten BY dead people?
2. Jesus was the firstborn FROM AMONG the group of “dead people”, of which he WAS a member?
I'm sure you think the latter. Which leads me to believe that you are just pretending you can't understand that same language in Col 1:15…………..just because you don't WANT Jesus to have been AMONG THE GROUP of “created things”.
Christ must be human to be “Firstborn” for the firstborn is the same as the group of which it is the firstborn. The firstborn of cows is a cow. The firstborn of lambs is a lamb.Therefore, the term “Firstborn” in reference to Christ says absolutely nothing about His origin prior to his becoming human.
We see again that Mike cannot comprehend elementary things.
KJ
Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2011,06:38) Irene,
Deut. 10:17 tells you who Jehovah our God is. He is both God of gods and Lord of lords.Deut 10:17 “For the LORD (Jehovah) your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
1 Cor 8:6 tells us there is one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things. The God of gods is the Father, the Lord of lords is the Son. Jehovah our God is both God of gods and Lord of lords, not just God of gods, the Father.
I have explained this to you over and over. Jehovah our God is the name of the unity of the Father and the Son, not just the Father.
Irene, there is one advantage to your forgetfulness…I get a lot of practice in answering the same question of yours
Bless you,
Kathi
Kathi! There is only ONE Jehovah God, the most high above all. It has nothing todo with my memory. I am forgetful yes, but not to that degree YOU want me to be…. just look at my previous post, there is a Scripture that says that.Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
I think you too created a new doctrine, like t8 said about Adam and Eve. Just because Jesus is Lord of Lords too does not make Him Jehovah God. Humans might use that name. but Jesus and Jehovah are not the same person. You are going to the trinty doctrine…. even though YOU say that YOU don't believe in the trinity.
Kathi, what is it with YOU lately…..
Teaching this is dangerous…. IMOI said this before, that the translators used LORD of LORDS for Jehovah in the Old Test. as Jehovah God because they didn't want to use Gods name in vain. That is what it says in our Rye Study Bible of KJV.
In the New Test. for Jesus it is Lord that the Translators used in most cases. I only know of one place in the NT where it is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and that is in Rev, 19….
why that is I believe that they wanted to make it a point that Jesus is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS over all those on earth, when He returns, also IMO
We also know that there is another Scripture that says our God is above all in
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.And BTW in Deut. 10;18 it doesn't say Jehovah, does it?
?
God is above Jesus, only they are united in their believes, just like we are to be with all Christians and Jehovah God. But unfortunately men have made a mes of things….Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
You say there is only ONE Jehovah our God. There is also ONE body of Christ. Both are a compound unity made up of more than one.Btw, Deut 10:17 does say Jehovah, doesn't it
Also, the name 'Lord of lords' is not a substitute for the word 'Jehovah' but it is a name that Jehovah encompasses.
Quote In the New Test. for Jesus it is Lord that the Translators used in most cases. I only know of one place in the NT where it is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and that is in Rev, 19…. Here is another: Revelation 19:16 NAS
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. What does it say in the bold print Irene:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
If we have ONE Lord, Irene, who is called “Lord of lords” then that should tell you who is the Lord of lords in Deut. 10:17 and who is with the God of gods as the one compound unity called Jehovah our God.
Jesus want us to be ONE as 'they' are ONE. The verse actually says as 'We' are one. 'We' implies a compound unity, Irene. The church is to be ONE as they are ONE. Both are made up of more than one, btw.
John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:
23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.Look up Deut 10:17 and see that 'Lord of lords' is not a substitution for the word Jehovah and also see that Jehovah is the God of gods as well as the Lord of lords. It is clear in the NT that our ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the Lord of lords, is not Lord just because He is over those on earth when He returns but 1 Cor 8:6 tells us there is one Lord from through whom all things came and through whom we live.
See, He is Lord 'through whom all things came'…i.e. as creator.
Quote I am forgetful yes, but not to that degree YOU want me to be I have no desire for you to be forgetful, Irene, you should know better. Stop making things up.
Kathi
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ July 25 2011,03:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,13:23) Revelation 1:5 NASB ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—NRSV ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,Kathi, these are only two of the many translations that render this scripture as “firstborn OF the dead” – as the word “ek” can rightly be rendered. Do you understand this to mean:
1. Jesus was begotten BY dead people?
2. Jesus was the firstborn FROM AMONG the group of “dead people”, of which he WAS a member?
I'm sure you think the latter. Which leads me to believe that you are just pretending you can't understand that same language in Col 1:15…………..just because you don't WANT Jesus to have been AMONG THE GROUP of “created things”.
Christ must be human to be “Firstborn” for the firstborn is the same as the group of which it is the firstborn. The firstborn of cows is a cow. The firstborn of lambs is a lamb.Therefore, the term “Firstborn” in reference to Christ says absolutely nothing about His origin prior to his becoming human.
We see again that Mike cannot comprehend elementary things.
KJ
Hi Jack,
Good post. We know who Jesus calls His Father.Btw, that is why the NET Bible uses the word 'over' all creation instead of 'of' all creation. All creation is not the Abba.
Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,21:23) Revelation 1:5 NASB ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—NRSV ©
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,Kathi, these are only two of the many translations that render this scripture as “firstborn OF the dead” – as the word “ek” can rightly be rendered. Do you understand this to mean:
1. Jesus was begotten BY dead people?
2. Jesus was the firstborn FROM AMONG the group of “dead people”, of which he WAS a member?
I'm sure you think the latter. Which leads me to believe that you are just pretending you can't understand that same language in Col 1:15…………..just because you don't WANT Jesus to have been AMONG THE GROUP of “created things”.
Mike,
That would be the reason to know that the word 'of' is not the correct translation. See the NET Bible on Col 1 and Rev. 1:5, it does not use the word 'of' in any firstborn mention. All creation is not Jesus' Father and neither is the 'dead.'Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,04:30) Hi Irene,
You say there is only ONE Jehovah our God. There is also ONE body of Christ. Both are a compound unity made up of more than one.Btw, Deut 10:17 does say Jehovah, doesn't it
Also, the name 'Lord of lords' is not a substitute for the word 'Jehovah' but it is a name that Jehovah encompasses.
Quote In the New Test. for Jesus it is Lord that the Translators used in most cases. I only know of one place in the NT where it is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and that is in Rev, 19…. Here is another: Revelation 19:16 NAS
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. What does it say in the bold print Irene:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
If we have ONE Lord, Irene, who is called “Lord of lords” then that should tell you who is the Lord of lords in Deut. 10:17 and who is with the God of gods as the one compound unity called Jehovah our God.
Jesus want us to be ONE as 'they' are ONE. The verse actually says as 'We' are one. 'We' implies a compound unity, Irene. The church is to be ONE as they are ONE. Both are made up of more than one, btw.
John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:
23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.Look up Deut 10:17 and see that 'Lord of lords' is not a substitution for the word Jehovah and also see that Jehovah is the God of gods as well as the Lord of lords. It is clear in the NT that our ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the Lord of lords, is not Lord just because He is over those on earth when He returns but 1 Cor 8:6 tells us there is one Lord from through whom all things came and through whom we live.
See, He is Lord 'through whom all things came'…i.e. as creator.
Quote I am forgetful yes, but not to that degree YOU want me to be I have no desire for you to be forgetful, Irene, you should know better. Stop making things up.
Kathi
Kathi!
Jer 10:17 ¶ Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.Jer 10:18 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find [it so].
This is what it says.And this Scripture states that there is only ONE JEHOVAH GOD.
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
And Oh yes in our Rye Study Bible in the footnotes it says that the translators used LORD instead of Jehovah God. That is why it is used so few times.
I am not debating that Lord is Jesus, what I am debating is that He is Jehovah God…. That I don't believe because of the Scripture in Psalms…..
IreneQuote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,11:30) Hi Irene,
You say there is only ONE Jehovah our God. There is also ONE body of Christ. Both are a compound unity made up of more than one.Btw, Deut 10:17 does say Jehovah, doesn't it
Also, the name 'Lord of lords' is not a substitute for the word 'Jehovah' but it is a name that Jehovah encompasses.
Quote In the New Test. for Jesus it is Lord that the Translators used in most cases. I only know of one place in the NT where it is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and that is in Rev, 19…. Here is another: Revelation 19:16 NAS
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. What does it say in the bold print Irene:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
If we have ONE Lord, Irene, who is called “Lord of lords” then that should tell you who is the Lord of lords in Deut. 10:17 and who is with the God of gods as the one compound unity called Jehovah our God.
Jesus want us to be ONE as 'they' are ONE. The verse actually says as 'We' are one. 'We' implies a compound unity, Irene. The church is to be ONE as they are ONE. Both are made up of more than one, btw.
John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:
23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.Look up Deut 10:17 and see that 'Lord of lords' is not a substitution for the word Jehovah and also see that Jehovah is the God of gods as well as the Lord of lords. It is clear in the NT that our ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the Lord of lords, is not Lord just because He is over those on earth when He returns but 1 Cor 8:6 tells us there is one Lord from through whom all things came and through whom we live.
See, He is Lord 'through whom all things came'…i.e. as creator.
Quote I am forgetful yes, but not to that degree YOU want me to be I have no desire for you to be forgetful, Irene, you should know better. Stop making things up.
Kathi
KathiQuote John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one in your theory,all the disciples of Christ will become God the father and so join Christ who is already the son (of) god
and all will become gods is this you view
???Pierre
Irene,
I am not debating that there is only ONE JEHOVAH GOD, I agree. But, instead of that name representing one being, I believe that name represents the unity of two beings…one that is the God of gods and one that is the Lord of lords. When Deut 10:17 says “Lord of lords' that is the translation of Strong's number 136…Adonay which is Lord as in the name for our deity and the 'of lords' part is translated from Strong's number 113…Adon as in the name for our deity Lord OR non-deity lord, like masters.Lord of lords is translated from Adonay 'of' Adon.
Lord of lords is not translated from YHVH. The first part of Deut 10:17 IS translated from YHVH (Yahweh of Jehovah). I will try to show you here:Deut 10:17 “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
With the Hebrew transliterated words substituted for Lord/LORD I will rewrite the verse with the correct Hebrew word as found in the original. You will see that one of the words “LORD' is Yahweh (Jehovah) and the other two are not, one is Adonay, and the other is Adon.
Deut 10:17 “For Yahweh your God is the God of gods and the Adonay of Adon, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
See here: http://interlinearbible.org/deuteronomy/10-17.htm
remember that Hebrew is read from right to left, not left to right.Blessings,
KathiPierre,
John 17:21…that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us
Jesus wants us to be a unity in them not as them. When we are in Christ, we are not also Christ. When we are in them, we are not also them. We are not just “in” the Father but “in” THEM.We, the church can be one AS they are one…the church is to be a complete unity AS the Father and Son are a complete unity.
The 'glory' He refers to is the gospel:
John 17:22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me,that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
John 17:8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Kathi
Kathi! OK so we do agree that there is only one Jehovah God….. But why do you want to now say that Jesus is Jehovah God also??? He is not. He is His Son Lord of Lords and King of Kings. While Almighty Jehovah God is the only one that has that name. Since we also are in unity with God, does that now mean we too are by that name Jehovah??? No….Jehovah God is His name. just like Jesus is His name. While I take God as a Family name… a title. Which we will be members of, and in a sense we are already.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The Family of God. There is a Song that says that. “How good and how pleasant for Brethren to be.”…..The Baptism into the Family of God…. is that verse…
And the rest of the Scriptures represents that Jesus did preexisted….. which we both believe…..
IreneQuote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,13:01) Pierre, John 17:21…that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us
Jesus wants us to be a unity in them not as them. When we are in Christ, we are not also Christ. When we are in them, we are not also them. We are not just “in” the Father but “in” THEM.We, the church can be one AS they are one…the church is to be a complete unity AS the Father and Son are a complete unity.
The 'glory' He refers to is the gospel:
John 17:22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me,that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
John 17:8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Kathi
Kathiwhat was in them so that they all one with God
Pierre
Irene,
The unity that we are in is called the “Church” or the “body of Christ.”
The unity that the Father and Son are in is called “Jehovah” or “Jehovah our God” or “Jehovah God.”Quote 1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. We are subject to one another, correct? Being subject to one another does not mean we can't be a unity. Right?
Eph 5:15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16making the most of your time, because the days are evil. 17So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; 20always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; 21and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
Also, within the unity of the church, some members have greater roles, but still they are within a unity. Not everyone in a unity has to have the same role.
1 Cor 12:12For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20But now there are many members, but one body. 21And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
Within that family of God that you mention, we will not be God but we will be adopted sons of God.
Kathi
Pierre,
Love is the perfect bond of unity. Love is to be in all.Col 3:14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,08:12) Irene,
The unity that we are in is called the “Church” or the “body of Christ.”
The unity that the Father and Son are in is called “Jehovah” or “Jehovah our God” or “Jehovah God.”Quote 1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. We are subject to one another, correct? Being subject to one another does not mean we can't be a unity. Right?
Eph 5:15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16making the most of your time, because the days are evil. 17So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; 20always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; 21and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
Also, within the unity of the church, some members have greater roles, but still they are within a unity. Not everyone in a unity has to have the same role.
1 Cor 12:12For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20But now there are many members, but one body. 21And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
Within that family of God that you mention, we will not be God but we will be adopted sons of God.
Kathi
Kathi! No the body is the Church where Christ is the head of. It is not called Jehovah Church. You are making this up…Sorry I don't agree. And for me the subject is closed….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,15:15) Pierre,
Love is the perfect bond of unity. Love is to be in all.Col 3:14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
Kathiwhat kind of love ?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ July 25 2011,02:57) Christ must be human to be “Firstborn” for the firstborn is the same as the group of which it is the firstborn. The firstborn of cows is a cow. The firstborn of lambs is a lamb. Therefore, the term “Firstborn” in reference to Christ says absolutely nothing about His origin prior to his becoming human.
We see again that Mike cannot comprehend elementary things.
KJ
Jack, the group of which Jesus is the firstborn is clearly mentioned. He is NOT the “firstborn of mankind”, is he? He is not the “firstborn of cows”, is he? Nope. He is the “firstborn of ALL CREATION”. So following your theory that “the firstborn is the same as the group of which it is the firstborn”, then Jesus must be a CREATION.Pretty simple really………………at least it is when you don't let your own doctrine get in the way of your common sense.
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