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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,10:58) Mike Is Jesus the “Only Begotten Son of God” or not?
Well of course he is. Scripture says so, right?
What a silly question. 
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,11:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,09:57) Since you say that the “Nature” of the Father is a “Spirit being” implying that all “Spirit beings” have the nature of God, which is “DIVINE” then to be consistent with using your own words then you are saying… “Now, what exactly is the “nature” of God Almighty? He is a Spirit Being, right? So Jesus, His Son, is a DIFFERENT spirit being that shares a nature with his Father [and with satan and demons who are also Spirit beings]”.
Is that right Mike?
Yes Keith,That is correct. Just as you and I share the SAME EXACT NATURE as human beings, yet YOU are evil and I am good.
You know I'm kidding, but do you get the point? Having a spirit nature doesn't preclude that being from having an evil disposition.
peace,
mike
MikeYour doctrine is puke, for now you have to resort to saying that the Father has the same nature as satan and demons to support your sick beliefs!
Anathema!
WJ
Come on Keith,That's a little harsh, don't you think?
Would you have us believe that Satan is NOT a spirit being like the God who brought him forth?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 16 2011,11:13) Keith, Mike has gone off the deep end with his comparison. Jesus is the exact “charaketer” of God's nature. No other spirit being is the exact “charakter” of God's nature. Therefore, Jesus shares in ALL God's personal attributes.
Jack,The word “charakter” refers to the IMAGE made BY the engraving tool. It is true that the image left behind is an exact representation of the tool, but the image left behind is NOT the tool that made the image in the first place, is it?
And the fact that your wording says, “Jesus shares in ALL God's personal attributes” shows us that you realize Jesus is not the God whose personal attributes he shares.
Btw, I deleted the first post for you.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,10:58) Mike Is Jesus the “Only Begotten Son of God” or not?
Well of course he is. Scripture says so, right? What a silly question.
Ha Ha MikeIf he is the “ONLY” Begotten Son of God then that means that he is all alone as the Fathers “ONLY” Son.
That means he is not a part of the “Spirit species” you claim!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,11:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,09:57) Since you say that the “Nature” of the Father is a “Spirit being” implying that all “Spirit beings” have the nature of God, which is “DIVINE” then to be consistent with using your own words then you are saying… “Now, what exactly is the “nature” of God Almighty? He is a Spirit Being, right? So Jesus, His Son, is a DIFFERENT spirit being that shares a nature with his Father [and with satan and demons who are also Spirit beings]”.
Is that right Mike?
Yes Keith,That is correct. Just as you and I share the SAME EXACT NATURE as human beings, yet YOU are evil and I am good.
You know I'm kidding, but do you get the point? Having a spirit nature doesn't preclude that being from having an evil disposition.
peace,
mike
MikeYour doctrine is puke, for now you have to resort to saying that the Father has the same nature as satan and demons to support your sick beliefs!
Anathema!
WJ
Come on Keith,That's a little harsh, don't you think?
Would you have us believe that Satan is NOT a spirit being like the God who brought him forth?
HA HAGod brought him forth like he was “Born”? Is that what you mean?
So let me hear it Mike, let me hear you say “satan has the same nature as the Father God”.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:28) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 16 2011,11:13) Keith, Mike has gone off the deep end with his comparison. Jesus is the exact “charaketer” of God's nature. No other spirit being is the exact “charakter” of God's nature. Therefore, Jesus shares in ALL God's personal attributes.
Jack,The word “charakter” refers to the IMAGE made BY the engraving tool. It is true that the image left behind is an exact representation of the tool, but the image left behind is NOT the tool that made the image in the first place, is it?
So satan is the “exact representation of the Fathers image”?Is satan the “Image of the invisible God”?
Is satan a “Begotten Son of God”?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,10:58) Mike Is Jesus the “Only Begotten Son of God” or not?
Well of course he is. Scripture says so, right? What a silly question.
Ha Ha MikeIf he is the “ONLY” Begotten Son of God then that means that he is all alone as the Fathers “ONLY” Son.
That means he is not a part of the “Spirit species” you claim!
WJ
Oh. I wasn't aware that the Father only has ONE son period. Could you show me the scripture that says this? Because I can show you many scriptures that say WE and the angels are sons of God.Jesus is the only Son of God who was begotten directly by the Father. He is not the only son the Father has.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:43) So satan is the “exact representation of the Fathers image”? Is satan the “Image of the invisible God”?
Is satan a “Begotten Son of God”?
No, no and no.But is Satan a SPIRIT BEING, just like the God who created him? YES. Therefore Satan shares his spirit nature with the God who brought him forth.
Keith, it is amusing that you go full bore when it comes to showing all the ways Jesus is different from the OTHER angels of God, but you come to a full halt when it comes to all the scriptures that show how the God OF Jesus is different from him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2011,21:01) I see a lot of talk from Jack and Keith, but not too many points being addressed. Jack, when did you stop understanding the simple title “Son OF God”?
Jack, are you and I the SAME EXACT BEING?
Keith, do you know that scripture says Saul SAVED Israel from the Philistines? Is Saul also God because of the words of Hosea 13:4?
Isaiah 19:20
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.Keith or Jack, WHO is this scripture about? Who is this “savior” that Jehovah Almighty will SEND?
Please address at least one of these points, guys.
mike
Bump for Keith and Jack:Mike,
Think of flesh beings…are all flesh beings the same…NO! Are you the same flesh being as the moo cow, or how about the horsey? Not all spirit beings are the same either. Two are of divine nature-the Father and the Son, the angels have their own nature, still spirit beings but not the same kind as the Father and the Son.This is not hard.
God bless,
Kathi
(more later…I have some errands to run)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2011,05:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2011,21:01) I see a lot of talk from Jack and Keith, but not too many points being addressed. Jack, when did you stop understanding the simple title “Son OF God”?
Jack, are you and I the SAME EXACT BEING?
Keith, do you know that scripture says Saul SAVED Israel from the Philistines? Is Saul also God because of the words of Hosea 13:4?
Isaiah 19:20
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.Keith or Jack, WHO is this scripture about? Who is this “savior” that Jehovah Almighty will SEND?
Please address at least one of these points, guys.
mike
Bump for Keith and Jack:
Mike,I have ALREADY anawered this stuff on the “Being = Essence and Substance” thread. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3775
YES MIKE YOU AND I ARE THE SAME “BEING” BECAUSE WE ARE THE SAME ESSENCE AND SUBSTANCE. WE ARE BOTH “THE ADAM.”
God named the man and the woman “The Adam.” When humanity rebelled God said, “My Spirit shall not always strive with “The Adam.” So all of humanity is “The Adam” Mike!
Being = essence and not person Mike! You and I are the same being but individual persons within that being. This is elementary metaphysics Mike!
The Father and the Son are “The God.” They are the same Being (substance). Jesus is “Monogenes” (God's kind) Mike! If you deny that Jesus is “Monogenes” you are DAMNED!
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,13:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,10:58) Mike Is Jesus the “Only Begotten Son of God” or not?
Well of course he is. Scripture says so, right? What a silly question.
Ha Ha MikeIf he is the “ONLY” Begotten Son of God then that means that he is all alone as the Fathers “ONLY” Son.
That means he is not a part of the “Spirit species” you claim!
WJ
Oh. I wasn't aware that the Father only has ONE son period.
Why do you misrepresent my words and then create a smoke screen? This is what you do to everyone here Mike.Didn't I say he was the “Only Begotten Son of God”!
Is there any other “Only Begotten Son” that bears the exact image of the Father?
'Only” means he is the Fathers “Only Son” Begotten, that is right.
But what does the word “Begotten” mean to you Mike?
Are you changing your definition of the word now?
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2011,14:20) Mike,
Think of flesh beings…are all flesh beings the same…NO! Are you the same flesh being as the moo cow, or how about the horsey? Not all spirit beings are the same either. Two are of divine nature-the Father and the Son, the angels have their own nature, still spirit beings but not the same kind as the Father and the Son.This is not hard.
God bless,
Kathi
(more later…I have some errands to run)
KathiAmen!
Mike has developed this new “Spirit Species” gimmick to support his failed doctrine.
That is like saying there is a “Flesh Species”.
Animals, fish, birds, and humans are all of the same “species”.
Just like he is saying “demons, satan, angels, the Father and Jesus are all part of the “Spirit Species”.
WJ
Mike
So the word “Yalad” doesn't always mean “literraly born” as you had so adamently argued in the past?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 17 2011,07:16) Mike So the word “Yalad” doesn't always mean “literraly born” as you had so adamently argued in the past?
WJ
Keith,You are correct. The word “yalad” is quite often used metaphorically in scripture. It is used in Deuteronomy 32:18 when God delivered Israel out of the bondage of Egypt.
Quote Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful,
And have forgotten the God who fathered you.
It says that the “Rock” who begat them is God. Paul said that that “Rock” was Christ (1 Cor. 10) and Jude 5 says that it was JESUS who saved them out of Egyt (ESV).Thererfore, Jesus is God!
Jack
Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2011,13:20) Not all spirit beings are the same either. Two are of divine nature-the Father and the Son, the angels have their own nature, still spirit beings but not the same kind as the Father and the Son.
Hi Kathi,How do you know this? Please point me to the SCRIPTURE that taught you this knowledge.
Also, please tell me what scripture mentions ONLY the Father and the Son as “divine beings”. Because it seems to me that some of us will also participate in this divine nature. So who's to say that there aren't any other angels of God besides Jesus who also have a divine nature right now?
And finally, how is it that you come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING ELSE is different from the Father and the Son (a thought that I DO agree with), but that there is no difference BETWEEN the Father and the Son?
I've just asked Keith this same thing. Why is it that when it comes to scriptures that set Jesus higher than everything else in creation, you guys are scriptural EXPERTS…………..but when it comes the the ABUNDANCE of scriptures that set Jehovah higher than Jesus, it's like none of you have ever opened the Bible in your lives?
peace,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 16 2011,13:44) YES MIKE YOU AND I ARE THE SAME “BEING” BECAUSE WE ARE THE SAME ESSENCE AND SUBSTANCE.
So we are the same INDIVIDUAL “being”, Jack?Kathi, do YOU agree with this?
How about you, Keith?
Jack, have you ever heard the plural phrase “human beingS“? Are you implying that since all humans are really the same exact BEING, the plural phrase “human beings” is a misnomer?
Jack, please either find someone reputable that supports your claim here, or let it go. You are making yourself look silly.
peace,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,14:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,13:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,10:58) Mike Is Jesus the “Only Begotten Son of God” or not?
Well of course he is. Scripture says so, right? What a silly question.
Ha Ha MikeIf he is the “ONLY” Begotten Son of God then that means that he is all alone as the Fathers “ONLY” Son.
That means he is not a part of the “Spirit species” you claim!
WJ
Oh. I wasn't aware that the Father only has ONE son period.
Why do you misrepresent my words and then create a smoke screen? This is what you do to everyone here Mike.Didn't I say he was the “Only Begotten Son of God”!
Is there any other “Only Begotten Son” that bears the exact image of the Father?
'Only” means he is the Fathers “Only Son” Begotten, that is right.
But what does the word “Begotten” mean to you Mike?
Are you changing your definition of the word now?
WJ
Are you kidding me, Keith?Look at your first post, where you tried your best to slink from “only begotten Son” to “ONLY Son”, period.
And then you only posted the first LINE of my response. And then have the nerve to accuse ME of a “smokescreen”?
And now, look at your response to my response:
Quote 'Only” means he is the Fathers “Only Son” Begotten, that is right.
See? You're STILL trying to sneak “only begotten Son” into “ONLY Son”. Where are you going with this question anyway? Do you think you will convince me that because Jesus is the only begotten SON of God, he is also the God he is the Son OF? And to answer your question, “begotten” means “brought forth, as in childbirth”, just as Strong says it does. And yes, just like I could use the English phrase, “That GIVES BIRTH to another question”, the Hebrews and Greeks also used “begotten” metaphorically – WITHOUT EVER CHANGING THE MEANING OF THE WORD ITSELF.
See? When I “GIVE BIRTH” to a question, I AM actually CREATING a new question, right? It's just that I'm metaphorically applying a phrase that refers to a literal childbirth to a situation that doesn't have to do with a child. But the phrase “GIVE BIRTH” STILL continues to refer to a literal childbirth even after I use it metaphorically in reference to something else.
Kathi came up with a brilliant rule of application for “yalad” and “ginomai”: Begotten ALWAYS has the default meaning of a LITERAL childbirth………….UNLESS there is clear and obvious context that shows otherwise.
And since none of you can show any SCRIPTURAL reason (as opposed to your own wishes) to suggest that the begetting of Jesus was anything other than the DEFAULT meaning, the DEFAULT meaning applies.
(NOTE: The last part of my post was to show Keith that I have not changed my view of “begotten”. If anyone would like to comment on that part of my post, please paste it to an appropriate thread and respond to it there – not here.)
peace,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 16 2011,15:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 17 2011,07:16) Mike So the word “Yalad” doesn't always mean “literraly born” as you had so adamently argued in the past?
WJ
Keith,You are correct. The word “yalad” is quite often used metaphorically in scripture. It is used in Deuteronomy 32:18 when God delivered Israel out of the bondage of Egypt.
Quote Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful,
And have forgotten the God who fathered you.
It says that the “Rock” who begat them is God. Paul said that that “Rock” was Christ (1 Cor. 10) and Jude 5 says that it was JESUS who saved them out of Egyt (ESV).Thererfore, Jesus is God!
Jack
Really Jack?First, you post a scripture where it is clear that “yalad” DOES have to do with bringing a people forth.
And then you try to use the “Same Name Game Claim” argument that because God is called “Rock” and Jesus is called “Rock”, Jesus IS the God he is the Son OF.
You are truly precious – and I've missed you.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2011,14:11) Animals, fish, birds, and humans are all of the same “species”. Just like he is saying “demons, satan, angels, the Father and Jesus are all part of the “Spirit Species”.
Okay Keith,Show me the scripture that teaches that angels are of, let's say, “bird flesh” and demons are of “fish flesh”.
Is there any scripture that implies there are different natures of spirit beings?
I mean really, you guys are going overboard trying to say that Jesus is the same nature as his God because Jesus is the Son of his God. But angels are also the sons of their God and are also spirit beings. And remember that for every scripture you can use to show how Jesus is higher than the other spirit beings, there are at least TWO scriptures we can use to show that God is higher than Jesus.
So…………..do you really want to enter into this lopsided affair?
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