And God called their name adam

Participant

Kathi! This Scripture does state that the Father is in Jesus, as we will be also….

Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Why are you denying this?

Peace and Love Irene

July 29, 2011 at 6:50 pm#254326

Participant

Irene,
It says that we can be one in THEM, not just the Father. Now ask yourself why, Irene.

It is because they are a unity.

How is it that believer's can be in THEM, Irene? Are we going to become more members within their unity and also be Jehovah God or simply be the saints/ the adopted sons in the kingdom of Jehovah God and be in them through the bond of love?

Kathi

July 29, 2011 at 6:59 pm#254328

Participant

Kathi! Here you go again. Jehovah God is one person, not two. Yes it says us, but the question was if the Father is in Jesus or us, was it not? We are united with Jesus and His Father by Jehovah Gods Holy Spirit, that dwells in all born again Christians. We are the adopted Sons of God…. Jesus is the begotten Son of God.
Irene

July 29, 2011 at 7:33 pm#254334

Participant

No Irene, that was not the question. I asked where does it say that we are one with the Father.

Jehovah God is two persons. Deut 10:17 and 1 Cor 8:6 tells you who Jehovah God is…both the Father and the Son. The Son says that He and the Father are one. That is TWO persons that are ONE Irene and we can be in THEM, not just in HIM.

Think about it…
If we have one creator and He alone created but 1 Cor 8:6 tells us that there were two, that leads us to a unity of two persons.
If we have one Savior yet Revelations tells us that salvation belongs to both God and the Lamb, that leads us to a unity of two persons.
If the Father and the Son are one as Jesus teaches, that leads us to a unity of two persons.
If Jehovah will not share His glory with another but we know that the Son had glory with the Father before creation, that leads us to a unity of two persons.
If Jehovah our God says that He is both God of gods and Lord of lords in Deut 10:17 and then we find out that for us there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ, that leads us to a unity of two persons as Jehovah our God made up of the Father and the Son.
John 1:1 tells us that there was one with God who was God, that fits right into that unity of two persons.
Jesus tells us to be baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, that shows the unity of two persons and their Holy Spirit.

Read through the NT and see all the times that the Father and the Son are paired up for us to serve, believe in, etc.

So, I have given you plenty of reason why the Father and the Son are the compound unity called Jehovah our God.

Do you need scriptures for all of that, first try to find them on your own. If you can't, let me know and I will help you.

Blessings,
Kathi

July 29, 2011 at 9:09 pm#254342

terraricca

Participant

Kathi

this is your quote;

Quote

So, I have given you plenty of reason why the Father and the Son are the compound unity called Jehovah our God.

Do you need scriptures for all of that, first try to find them on your own. If you can't, let me know and I will help you.

Blessings,
Kathi

the way i understand it is this way;

So, I have given you plenty of- PERSONAL- reason why -I THINK – the Father and the Son are the compound unity called Jehovah our God.

Do you need scriptures – TRUTH – for all of that, first try to find them on your own. If you can't – BACK UP MY WAY OF THINKING-, let me know and I will help you.

Blessings,
Kathi

I have made capitals to make seen the words I added,only for better understanding ,

Pierre

July 29, 2011 at 11:00 pm#254361

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,06:33)

No Irene, that was not the question. I asked where does it say that we are one with the Father.

Read through the NT and see all the times that the Father and the Son are paired up for us to serve, believe in, etc.

So, I have given you plenty of reason why the Father and the Son are the compound unity called Jehovah our God.

Do you need scriptures for all of that, first try to find them on your own. If you can't, let me know and I will help you.

Blessings,
Kathi

Kathi! Deut. 10:17 does not prove that Jehovah God is two persons, just that He God is LORD OF LORDS.

Deu 10:17 For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

And 1 Corinth, 8:6 doesn't prove that either.

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. Jesus is not called Jehovah…He is called Lord of Lords and King of Kings….Not even Almighty God Jehovah God is called Jehovah in this Scripture…

But I can prove to you that Jehovah God is one God.

Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.

Isa 12:1 ¶ And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.

Isa 12:2 Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.

Isa 12:3 Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

Isa 12:4 ¶ And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.

Isa 12:5 Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this [is] known in all the earth.

Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great [is] the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Jehovah God is the Holy One, , One Kathi not two…

I think Psalms 83 pretty much proves that Jehovah God is one God among many Gods. In Ancient times many were called God….

Peace Irene

July 29, 2011 at 11:53 pm#254366

Participant

Irene,
Did you know that the church is referred to in singular terms also yet there are many members. Look at this:

To the Church in Laodicea

Rev 3:14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Do you see how it says that the church says “I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.”
That is a perfect example of something that is a compound unity using singular pronouns and saying things with singular pronouns. All of the 'you' words are singular in the Greek when referring to the church.

Quote

Deut. 10:17 does not prove that Jehovah Go0d is two persons, just that He God is LORD OF LORDS.

No that is not what it says. First, the word 'lord' is not in all caps, the first letter is capitalized in the first 'Lord' and in the second 'lord' it is not capitalized. It also says that Jehovah our God is God of gods…Jehovah our God is God of gods and Lord or lords.

Quote

But I can prove to you that Jehovah God is one God.

You only proved that Jehovah is referred to with singular pronouns. As I have shown you above with the verses about the church, a compound unity can be referred to with singular pronouns.

Can you show me the scripture that says Jehovah our God is one God?

Thanks,
Kathi

July 30, 2011 at 1:26 am#254378

Participant

Kathi! When you see LORD in all capital letters in the Old Test. and there are some Scrip0tures, it is Jehovah God, and it is one person. Look in worship I explained it, I am not going to repeat myself….Irene

July 30, 2011 at 1:52 am#254387

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2011,18:53)

Irene,
Did you know that the church is referred to in singular terms also yet there are many members. Look at this:

To the Church in Laodicea

Rev 3:14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

Quote

Deut. 10:17 does not prove that Jehovah Go0d is two persons, just that He God is LORD OF LORDS.

Quote

But I can prove to you that Jehovah God is one God.

You only proved that Jehovah is referred to with singular pronouns. As I have shown you above with the verses about the church, a compound unity can be referred to with singular pronouns.

Can you show me the scripture that says Jehovah our God is one God?

Thanks,
Kathi

Irene, will you please tell me if you can see how the church is referred to with a singular pronoun? I spent a while on that post and want to make sure you got that point.
Thanks,
Kathi

July 30, 2011 at 2:52 am#254403

Blocked

Or perhaps Kathi could show us all how the church is a “HE”. You can't use “SHE” as an apples to apples comparison, for the word “SHE” is poetically used to refer to many inanimate objects that have no gender whatsoever.

Kathi, find us a situation where more than one person are referred to together as a “HE”.

peace,
mike

July 30, 2011 at 3:30 am#254408

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Participant

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

July 30, 2011 at 2:56 pm#254452

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,14:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

Kathi,

I recently made an interesting discovery regarding the idea of compound unity being spoken about in scripture in the singular. In John 12:40 John spoke about the Jews who rejected Jesus using all plural pronouns:

“He has blinded THEIR minds and hardened THEIR hearts, lest THEY should see with THEIR eyes, lest THEY should understand with THEIR hearts and THEY should turn and I should heal THEM.”

John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:

“Make the heart of this people fat, and make HIS ears heavy, and shut HIS eyes; lest HE see with HIS eyes, and hear with HIS ears, and understand with HIS heart, and convert, and be healed.”

Jack

July 30, 2011 at 11:06 pm#254509

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,14:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

Kathi! Mike asked a good Question, so how about answering that?

As far as the Church is concerned, it is not a He or She, the Church is singular as a unit, All organized religion are not the true Churches. You say gender is not the issue, but it is. Because nobody calls the Church a He or a She do they? There is only ONE TRUE CHURCH…..and the head of that Church is Jesus….

I also believe that you will not see it. Jack put up two Scriptures, maybe you should look at them and wonder…..

Kathi! Come back to the truth…. You never believed this before, why now???

Peace and Love Irene

July 31, 2011 at 4:32 am#254528

Participant

Irene,
I have been answering Mike and he keeps asking for more. What I have shown him is sufficient to prove that a compound unity is referred to with singular pronouns.

Quote

So, Irene, if I prove that the church is called a 'she' will that make a difference to you…will you allow yourself to consider that you are wrong about this matter?

Here is your proof:

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

That should help you see that the church is indeed called a 'she' and also 'her.'

About what Jack put up, it does a great job proving to Mike just what Mike asked me to prove to him…I am very happy that Jack found this so it will put an end to the issue. Note that what he put up proves that a compound unity is expressed as a 'he' and 'him.'

Jehovah God, the name of the compound unity of the Father and the Son is referred to as a 'He' and a 'Him' also.

So, Irene, maybe you should look at the two scriptures and wonder if they might be hitting a little close to home

BTW, I have always believed in the unity of the Father and the Son. I am just finding more and more clarity and verses and reasons.
God is good…ALL the time,
Kathi

July 31, 2011 at 4:36 am#254529

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2011,09:56)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,14:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

Kathi,

John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:

Jack

Wow Jack,
Great job…truly great job! You have found the smoking gun to end this issue that Mike has had trouble with believing.

Kudos to you Jack!

You have advanced the kingdom!!

Blessings,
Kathi

July 31, 2011 at 9:02 am#254535

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 31 2011,15:32)

Irene,
I have been answering Mike and he keeps asking for more. What I have shown him is sufficient to prove that a compound unity is referred to with singular pronouns.

Quote

So, Irene, if I prove that the church is called a 'she' will that make a difference to you…will you allow yourself to consider that you are wrong about this matter?

Here is your proof:

That should help you see that the church is indeed called a 'she' and also 'her.'

Jehovah God, the name of the compound unity of the Father and the Son is referred to as a 'He' and a 'Him' also.

So, Irene, maybe you should look at the two scriptures and wonder if they might be hitting a little close to home

BTW, I have always believed in the unity of the Father and the Son. I am just finding more and more clarity and verses and reasons.
God is good…ALL the time,
Kathi

No Kathi! The She in this article is about the wife, not the Church. Read it with an open mind….
You have no clear Scripture that says that Jehovah God is two people. But We have….. already given you that Scripture…..Peace and Love Irene

July 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm#254554

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2011,21:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards.

Either put up or pipe down.

With all due respect,
mike

July 31, 2011 at 4:26 pm#254555

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Blocked

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2011,08:56)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,14:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

Kathi,

John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:

Jack

Yet in the English translation off to the side on your link, the verse is rendered as:

Make the heart of this
people fat, and make their
ears heavy, and shut their
eyes; lest they see with their
eyes, and hear with their
ears, and understand with
their heart, and convert, and
be healed.

And I noticed the LXX uses the plural “autos” also. And if you go word by word on Biblos.com Hebrew Interlinear, you'll also see “THEIR ears” and “THEIR eyes”, etc.

It seems the smoking gun has been snuffed out by overwhelming evidence. But nice try anyway, Jack.

Guys, what is so hard about our God Jehovah begetting a Son? When I had my son, I didn't have a bunch of lunatics claiming that my son actually WAS me, or that he always existed inside of me before I begot him, or that he was as powerful or as wise as me, or that the two of us formed some “compound unity” and were therefore called a “HE” instead of a “THEY”.

You guys truly baffle me. I often wondered how the spirit of the antichrist took hold of people in the first place. But I have now seen that it is passed from person to person. We have slowly witnessed our sister Kathi being enveloped by this spirit over the past year or so. And I will bet dollars to donuts that in another year, Kathi will be a Trinitarian and progress from TWO GODS to THREE. And then she'll be a bonafide member of the group that confusingly tries to convince others that somehow these THREE GODS are really only ONE God.

Was that harsh? It was from my heart and not intended to be “hurtful” so much as it was intended to be a slap in the face to bring you guys to your senses.

John 8
24 “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”

25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been claiming all along,” Jesus replied.

Look for a new thread centered on this passage.

May God grant you understanding,
mike

July 31, 2011 at 9:52 pm#254587

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 31 2011,01:56)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,14:30)

Mike,
I have no desire to go on a search for you in this regards. I have proven that a compound unity is spoken about in the singular. Gender is not the issue.

Kathi

Kathi,

John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:

Jack

Jack! What exactly does that prove? It doesn't prove any important doctrine, like what Kathi wants us to believe about Jehovah. Jehovah God is a single person, so your important discovery is not important to doctrines….
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.

Peace and Love Irene

July 31, 2011 at 10:16 pm#254593