And God called their name adam

Participant

TO ALL,

On another thread some months ago WJ and I tried desperately to give Mikeboll and t8 an elementary lesson in nature and identity. It is unfortunate that some people who consider themselves students of the scripture cannot understand the elementary things.

Please note that t8 said that Eve is not “Adam” with a capital “A.” Then he says that Eve is “adam” with a small “a.” t8 was saying that Eve was “adam” qualitatively and that's all. This does not mean that she may share the name Adam (capital “A”) with Adam. But Genesis 5:1-2 says that God called their NAME “Adam”

t8 said:

Quote

I have answered this before.

adam consists of all humans including Adam himself.
Adam is the first human and excludes all others including Eve.

Eve is not Adam.
Eve is adam.

I didn't invent Greek, WJ, I am only pointing out a reality.
Please don't blame me for the way English and Greek are structured.

t8 knows that if Eve shares the name “Adam” (capital “A”) with the Adam, then Jesus may share the name “God” with God.

Note that God NAMED both the male and the female “Adam” with a capital “A.”

Quote

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:1-2

Jesus shares the name God with God because God is a plural unity like Adam which He created. Just as Eve was Adam qualitatively and also shares the name “Adam,” so Jesus is God qualitatively and also shares the name “God.”

July 8, 2011 at 4:24 pm#251468

Participant

what do you mean when you say sharesEve was Adam qualitatively and also shares the name;

but in God -God

July 8, 2011 at 4:57 pm#251472

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:24)

what do you mean when you say sharesEve was Adam qualitatively and also shares the name;

but in God -God

t8 believes that Eve was adam in the sense she was humankind but that her name was not Adam. But God NAMED them both Adam.

July 8, 2011 at 5:07 pm#251473

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 08 2011,11:03)

TO ALL,

t8 said:

Quote

I have answered this before.

adam consists of all humans including Adam himself.
Adam is the first human and excludes all others including Eve.

Eve is not Adam.
Eve is adam.

I didn't invent Greek, WJ, I am only pointing out a reality.
Please don't blame me for the way English and Greek are structured.

t8 knows that if Eve shares the name “Adam” (capital “A”) with the Adam, then Jesus may share the name “God” with God.

Note that God NAMED both the male and the female “Adam” with a capital “A.”

Quote

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:1-2

Hi Jack

Good point! They claim Jesus has the same nature that the Father has but then seek to diminish his nature as something less than the Father.

To them he is not “The Only Begotten Son of God” but a son like all other sons and some demi-god who is neither 100% in nature God or 100% in nature man.

To them he is a cross or half breed of God and man making him a freak of nature.

All beings bear after their own kind. But to t8 and Mike Jesus is not in very nature God as the scriptures claim.

The argument that you can have identity without nature is a fallacious argument because if Jesus is “theos\god” like all the others as they claim then that means Jesus would be in nature like all the other so-called “theos\gods”.

If I call out for Sam how does one know that I am calling for a dog, cat, horse or a man.

But if I say “Sam is the daddy of 6 puppies” then I know Sam is a dog by nature.

This is elementary stuff that is over t8 and Mikes head or they just deny the truth so they can hold onto their Paganistic, Henotheistic, and Polytheistic belief in more than “one theos\god”. So they claim Jesus is one of those many theos\gods they believe in and serve.

If I say my Jesus has all authority and power and rules the entire Universe and that all things belong to him and are in his hands and that by him all things consist and he dwells in the hearts and lives of every true believer by his Spirit, then I know by his nature and name which is above every name that he is “The True God” and not “a god like the others.

Their Jesus is not “Fully God” or “Fully man” but some sort of demi-god and that is paganistic.

Blessings!

July 8, 2011 at 5:39 pm#251476

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2011,10:57)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:24)

what do you mean when you say sharesEve was Adam qualitatively and also shares the name;

but in God -God

t8 believes that Eve was adam in the sense she was humankind but that her name was not Adam. But God NAMED them both Adam.

well God named the man ADAM but Adam named his likeness EVE and we know eve came out of Adam rib

so in this sence yes you right;but to me they both represent humankind,or at the least Adam,because Adam seed was still in him.at the time

Pierre

July 8, 2011 at 5:42 pm#251477

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2011,04:07)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 08 2011,11:03)

TO ALL,

t8 said:

Quote

I have answered this before.

adam consists of all humans including Adam himself.
Adam is the first human and excludes all others including Eve.

Eve is not Adam.
Eve is adam.

I didn't invent Greek, WJ, I am only pointing out a reality.
Please don't blame me for the way English and Greek are structured.

t8 knows that if Eve shares the name “Adam” (capital “A”) with the Adam, then Jesus may share the name “God” with God.

Note that God NAMED both the male and the female “Adam” with a capital “A.”

Quote

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:1-2

Hi Jack

Good point! They claim Jesus has the same nature that the Father has but then seek to diminish his nature as something less than the Father.

To them he is not “The Only Begotten Son of God” but a son like all other sons and some demi-god who is neither 100% in nature God or 100% in nature man.

To them he is a cross or half breed of God and man making him a freak of nature.

All beings bear after their own kind. But to t8 and Mike Jesus is not in very nature God as the scriptures claim.

If I call out for Sam how does one know that I am calling for a dog, cat, horse or a man.

But if I say “Sam is the daddy of 6 puppies” then I know Sam is a dog by nature.

Their Jesus is not “Fully God” or “Fully man” but some sort of demi-god and that is paganistic.

Blessings!

Keith,

Exactly! And the fact that God called the man and the womman by the same name “Adam” proves that identity and nautre are inseparable.

Identity 1. The sameness of essential character (Webster's)

These guys must deny elementary things to escape the truth.

Jack

July 8, 2011 at 5:49 pm#251478

Participant

Quote

5:1 This is the genealogy of men in the day in which God made Adam; in the image of God he made him: 2 male and female he made them, and blessed them; and he called his name Adam, in the day in which he made them. 3 And Adam lived two hundred and thirty years, and begot a son after his own form, and after his own image, and he called his name Seth.

Quote

But Genesis 5:1-2 says that God called their NAME “Adam”

but look at gen;5;3 the first son appears to be Seth, is this true,if not ;then you are jumping to conclusion but not truth.

Pierre

July 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm#251480

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen5.pdf

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,04:49)

Quote

But Genesis 5:1-2 says that God called their NAME “Adam”

but look at gen;5;3 the first son appears to be Seth, is this true,if not ;then you are jumping to conclusion but not truth.

Pierre

Which versoin are you using? The versions I am using say that God named THEM “Adam” referring to the first male and female (KJV, ESV).

The Hebrew Interlinear says that God named THEM “Adam.”

July 8, 2011 at 6:20 pm#251481

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen5.pdf

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2011,12:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,04:49)

Quote

But Genesis 5:1-2 says that God called their NAME “Adam”

but look at gen;5;3 the first son appears to be Seth, is this true,if not ;then you are jumping to conclusion but not truth.

Pierre

Which versoin are you using? The versions I am using say that God named THEM “Adam” referring to the first male and female (KJV, ESV).

The Hebrew Interlinear says that God named THEM “Adam.”

my version is the LXX but look i have it boxed in ,it says the same thing :them:

but that is not what my argument is all about,and you do not address my point ,

if Seth is not the first son of Adam then your argument in Gen 5;2 does not stand,

Pierre

July 8, 2011 at 6:22 pm#251482

942767

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2011,03:03)

TO ALL,

t8 said:

Quote

I have answered this before.

adam consists of all humans including Adam himself.
Adam is the first human and excludes all others including Eve.

Eve is not Adam.
Eve is adam.

I didn't invent Greek, WJ, I am only pointing out a reality.
Please don't blame me for the way English and Greek are structured.

t8 knows that if Eve shares the name “Adam” (capital “A”) with the Adam, then Jesus may share the name “God” with God.

Note that God NAMED both the male and the female “Adam” with a capital “A.”

Quote

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:1-2

No, Jack:

Jesus body is the Holy Temple of God, and as his disciples who have born again are members of his body, and Holy Ghost dwells in us as well.

Adam and Eve were one body, and the comparison is made between this union and our union with Christ. We who are his disciples are his bride.

If we are members of the Lord's body, we are also “one spirit with him”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

July 9, 2011 at 12:31 pm#251574

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 09 2011,05:22)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2011,03:03)

TO ALL,

t8 said:

Quote

I have answered this before.

adam consists of all humans including Adam himself.
Adam is the first human and excludes all others including Eve.

Eve is not Adam.
Eve is adam.

I didn't invent Greek, WJ, I am only pointing out a reality.
Please don't blame me for the way English and Greek are structured.

t8 knows that if Eve shares the name “Adam” (capital “A”) with the Adam, then Jesus may share the name “God” with God.

Note that God NAMED both the male and the female “Adam” with a capital “A.”

Quote

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:1-2

No, Jack:

Jesus body is the Holy Temple of God, and as his disciples who have born again are members of his body, and Holy Ghost dwells in us as well.

Adam and Eve were one body, and the comparison is made between this union and our union with Christ. We who are his disciples are his bride.

If we are members of the Lord's body, we are also “one spirit with him”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,

You help me and hurt yourself for God alone is the Husband of the Bride (Isaiah 54:5). Jesus is the Husband of the Bride. Ergo….

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science Marty!

July 9, 2011 at 8:44 pm#251646

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 08 2011,10:03)

TO ALL,

On another thread some months ago WJ and I tried desperately to give Mikeboll and t8 an elementary lesson in nature and identity. It is unfortunate that some people who consider themselves students of the scripture cannot understand the elementary things.

I will vouch for Jack on this one. It is true that he tried to teach me these things – going as far as to claim that he is the SAME EXACT BEING as his own father just to drive his point home!

Is it any wonder the lesson didn't take?

July 9, 2011 at 9:01 pm#251649

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hey Jack,

Instead of starting yet another thread, why didn't you just address this question in the “Bizzaro” thread?

To All,

How about this equation:

The son of the ORIGINAL and ONLY EXISTING “Adam” was AN adam, but not THE Adam who brought him forth.

The son of the ORIGINAL and ONLY EXISTING God Almighty is A god, but not THE God who brought him forth.

Does anyone find fault with this comparison?

Jack, the “nature” of God Almighty is SPIRIT. So yes, Jesus as a SPIRIT being shares a nature with the God who created him; but then so do all the other angels in heaven.

Sharing a “nature” with someone does not make you the same individual BEING as that one. You admit that our One True God is ONE BEING, right? It's just that you seem have some sort of learning disability when it comes to realizing that Jesus is the Son OF that ONE BEING, which makes him a DIFFERENT being.

mike

July 9, 2011 at 9:53 pm#251666

Proclaimer

Participant

KJ, you are grasping at straws.

Adam was the name of the first man.
No one called Eve 'Adam' by name, her name was Eve. But she was called 'adam' as all man is. That is what it is saying.

Your desperate revelation that both are called 'Adam' is not what the text is saying.

It is simply saying that God called them adam (man), not Adam.

Do you own a dog KJ. I will use a dog as an analogy.

Let's say you have the task of naming animals and you decide to name that species 'dog'. Then you identify each dog with the unique names, Dog and Beta. So now you have the name of the species and the name of each individual dog. Notice that Beta is dog, but NOT Dog.

You are confused about the word 'name'. That word can be used to identify a car, space shuttle, species/nature, phylum, kingdom, a group of people, and an individual.

Now take another look at your desperate revelation.

Adam is not preceded by the definite article, which doesn't decide the matter alone, but neither is it talking about the name of a person and this decides the matter. It is clear in the context that the name 'man/human/adam' is used to identify the species and a species is defined by it's flesh type or nature. See that? Nature/quality of us has a name. It is 'adam'.

But let's open up the possibility that I missed something in the text you produced. So I should ask, “where does it say that God named Eve (the Adam)?” In addition, I don't know anyone including any scholar that calls Eve, “Adam”. But she belongs to adam the species and is called “adam” in that context.

Back to the drawing board KJ. Again you failed to distinguish between identity and nature. Perhaps you have been made blind on this subject because of the doctrine you push? And yes you can identify a nature as you can identify an individual. God called the species/flesh type 'adam'. We already knew that. Nothing new here. I have mentioned this nearly every time I make the distinction between Adam and adam.

And it would be nice if you answered some of the outstanding questions I have with you in our debate. You appear to have some time, so why not? Are you stumped? I don't mind if you are, but you should say you are. Remember, honesty is always the best policy.

July 10, 2011 at 4:02 am#251719

Ed J

Participant

Hi T8,

A simple explanation may be all that's necessary.
In English, we have a term called “Mankind”;
the Hebrew has no such word structure?
Maybe they don't know any Hebrew?

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 10, 2011 at 9:16 am#251729

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3775

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2011,07:44)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 08 2011,10:03)

TO ALL,

I will vouch for Jack on this one. It is true that he tried to teach me these things – going as far as to claim that he is the SAME EXACT BEING as his own father just to drive his point home!

Is it any wonder the lesson didn't take?

Yeap because being = substance = identity and not person. I offered the definitions given us by the philosophers and the lexographers that we ALL must work with.

But Mike says, “Hey, I am going to define words and draw my conclusions from my definitions.” Mike knows that if he submits to the generally accepted concepts that he will lose the argument. Mike has already lost the argument because he refuses to work with the definitions given us.

Being = substance = identity and not person. The philosophers, the lexographers and even scripture attests to it. God NAMED the man and the woman “Adam.”

When will Mike stop ranting and start proving his assumptions regarding being and person? I'll tell you why: Because Mike is AFRAID to work with the generally accepted definitions for reasons that are too obvious.

July 10, 2011 at 10:40 am#251730

Istari

Participant

All are missing a point here:

Why not use the term 'TITLE' as it should be used.

Define: 'ADAM' – TITLE of the SPECIES OF MAN.
Define: 'The ADAM' – Reference to the Definite TITLE of the SPECIES OF MAN.
Define: 'An ADAM' – Reference to the Indefinite TITLE of the SPECIES OF MAN.
Define: 'Adam' – NAME of ONE from the Species of Man ('ADAM') – An ADAM called Adam.
Define: 'Eve' – NAME of ONE from the Species of Man ('ADAM') – An ADAM called Eve ('For she was taken out of Adam (From One from the Species of Man – not THE ADAM but AN ADAM!)

STOP confusing yourselves – use the correct terminology.

This is the same issue concerning 'God' and 'god'…

I know that it is the Trinitarians who want the confusion but others GIVE THEM their ammunition and then get shot with it (Like the British selling Exocet Missiles to the Argentinians and then get blasted with those same Exocet in the Faulklands!!)

Determine that the word 'God' is a TITLE. Define it. Agree it. Use it.

Define 'God': He who OWNS ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY (Within a particular Species or Bounds).

Now this does not preclude there being 'Many Gods in the Earthly realm as there are many 'Bounds' in the Earthly realm.
But in the Spirit realm there is no BOUND (or could be said only One) because All is ONE. Therefore there can ONLY BE ONE 'God'.
To emphasise the Mightiness of this, that ONE GOD is additionally entitled 'God Almighty' and 'The God most High' and 'The One True God' and 'Supreme above all other gods'.
As illustrated earlier, we give a definition for the TITLE, and we give a definition for the NAME.
Therefore we say, Define 'YHVH': Name of The God (Note the 'The') who is ALMIGHTY… as opposed to any other 'God' who does NOT all those other titles in one.

Jesus is never 'God Almighty'.
Jesus is never 'The one true God'.
Jesus is never 'The God most high'.
Jesus is never 'The Supreme above all other gods'.
Jesus is never 'YHVH' because 'YHVH' is an explicit name of One from the Species entitled 'Spirits'…
We do not know the name given to Jesus as a Spirit before he came as Man. We cannot claim that was his NAME but like 'The Angel who became known as THE SATAN, or just Satan, we can AGREE to give him the name 'LUCIFER', just as we can AGREE to give Jesus the name 'Jesus'.

And make a clear note that we DO NOT AGREE TO give 'He who was to become known as Jesus' the name 'YHVH'.

God Almighty… Said to Moses: 'This is MY NAME for everlasting'.
Only by the foolishness and overburdened use of the law did THE ADAM (Mankind, the Jews specifically) stop speaking his name and writing it only… And later on for Scholars and translators replace his name in writing with the TITLE 'LORD' which the brought more confusion with the everyday term 'Lord' meaning 'Overseer' (And before anyone says it: There are no Caps… The definite and indefinite are INFERRED by context … Which then creates even more confusion by those who seek to discredit our God and his word.)

And why has someone in authority not ordered the writing of a Bible that puts back the word 'YHVH' in place of 'LORD' and 'God Almighty' where it is contextually so – or even 'YHVH' with the footnotes of the changes instead of the other way around… How many people read the footnotes except in arguments, disputes and discussions…?

Oh, yes, what disputes would arise if we all saw plain Scriptures – we would believe by Sight – not by Faith. Even Jesus spoke in Parables to confuse and weed out those not in harmony with his testimony and leaving only the true believers.

So, who is ADAM, who is Adam and is Eve Adam or ADAM?

For sure, Eve is from Adam even as Scriptures says: The woman came from the Man (The explicit Man, An ADAM – seeing there was ONLY THE ONE at the time…otherwise it would be saying ALL OF MANKIND…see?)
But afterwards, Man (The individual ones, Male and female, of the Species) came and come from the Woman ( The 'Eves' of the Species).

Eve is not Adam – for Adam is an explicit ONE from the SPECIES of ADAM, as Eve is an Explicit ONE from the Species of ADAM.

Hope this helps – …

Isn't it awful and annoying when someone closes down a hot debate with commonsense.
Don't you just want to tell that one to 'get lost, who asked you to interject'.

This, of course, is the cornerstone of DEBATE…not Discussion…

In a debate (as Mike, WJ and KJ, all love) the point is not to reach a CONCLUSION but to see how disreputable each can become after losing a point to another – hence DEBATES tend to make deceitful ones even more deceitful and truthful persons angry! (Like, alledgedly, being put in jail… The criminal minded come out even more criminally minded – but the innocent only get angry over their mistreatment and abuse…!)

July 10, 2011 at 3:10 pm#251756

Participant

astari

Quote

but the innocent only get angry over their mistreatment and abuse…!)

I hope this is not a self indulgence?

Pierre

July 10, 2011 at 3:42 pm#251773

Istari

Participant

Terraricca,
Do you have anything of worth to say – ever?

July 10, 2011 at 4:29 pm#251785