Ancient Syriac Documents

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,13:35)

Pierre,
Did you not say that we are all gods?
Is Jesus and you equal as god?
Kathi

It's the same argument as “Is Adam and Eve equal as adam.

We know that both are fully adam.

So if Jesus is theos in nature and we can partake in divine nature and will have a body like his, then yes we are the same.

But in name, position, and authority, he is greater just as Adam was greater in position as the first born son.

July 21, 2011 at 4:33 am#253167

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,15:37)

Mike,
I said that presence or existence of the Son is why the Father is God Almighty.

That is what you say.

Try the other way round.

The presence or existence of the Son is why God Almighty is the Father.

July 21, 2011 at 5:05 am#253182

Participant

The presence or existence of the Son is why God is Almighty AND Father. The Son has always existed. The Father has always been Almighty.

Without the Son, God would not be Almighty or Father, imo. The Father is Almighty only when the Son is with Him. The Son is always with Him, the Son is eternal too. Thus, the Father is always Almighty.

July 21, 2011 at 5:17 am#253187

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,23:05)

The presence or existence of the Son is why God is Almighty AND Father. The Son has always existed. The Father has always been Almighty.

Without the Son, Jehovah, our God would only be God of nothing and not both God of gods AND Lord of lords. There would be no creation. All creation comes through the Son.

Kathi

are you by any chance work for a boss that as to be reminded all the time that he his the boss?but i think he make sure all know that he is,

when God was alone he did not need to be call the mighty he knew that very well ,

but when creation start
then it was important that all of his creation would know him and this became more evident wen man and Satan came on the scene as opposing the Creator ,

so it is quite simple

Pierre

July 21, 2011 at 5:23 am#253190

Participant

Quote

It's the same argument as “Is Adam and Eve equal as adam.

We know that both are fully adam.

So if Jesus is theos in nature and we can partake in divine nature and will have a body like his, then yes we are the same.

But in name, position, and authority, he is greater just as Adam was greater in position as the first born son.

Adam and everyone else that is inherently adam rules over the cattle, fish, etc., no matter what their name is…it is their nature that qualifies them to rule.

The Father and the Son and everyone else that always INHERENTLY had the same nature as Them, rules over all of creation and is truly God.

It just happens to be that they are the only two that have always been inherently the nature of theos. All others are not, nor will they ever be.

Kathi

July 21, 2011 at 5:53 am#253196

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,23:23)

Quote

It's the same argument as “Is Adam and Eve equal as adam.

We know that both are fully adam.

So if Jesus is theos in nature and we can partake in divine nature and will have a body like his, then yes we are the same.

But in name, position, and authority, he is greater just as Adam was greater in position as the first born son.

Adam and everyone else that is inherently adam rules over the cattle, fish, etc., no matter what their name is…it is their nature that qualifies them to rule.

The Father and the Son and everyone else that always INHERENTLY had the same nature as Them, rules over all of creation and is truly God.

It just happens to be that they are the only two that have always been inherently the nature of theos. All others are not, nor will they ever be.

Kathi

Quote

they are the only two that have always been inherently the nature of theos.

1Co 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man

it looks it was only Adam

Pierre

July 21, 2011 at 9:11 pm#253226

Participant

Pierre,
Do a Bible word search for 'image' and 'nature' and see if you can further your Biblical understanding on this matter.

Kathi

July 21, 2011 at 9:19 pm#253228

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2011,15:11)

Pierre,
Do a Bible word search for 'image' and 'nature' and see if you can further your Biblical understanding on this matter.

Kathi

why would you think Paul would say that in that way ?

Pierre

July 21, 2011 at 9:38 pm#253233

Participant

Pierre,
I don't know what Paul would say, but I know that you don't want to believe what I say so you need to find some things out for yourself.

You are a fisherman, right? When someone wants a fish from you, over and over, do you just hand them a fish or teach them to fish for themselves?

Try fishing with a word search…bait your hook and throw the line in the water and see what comes up, it may be a keeper.

If you need help doing a word search, let me know, okay?
Kathi

July 21, 2011 at 10:09 pm#253235

Participant

Kathi

Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Ge 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Ge 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
Ge 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”

Ge 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

Ge 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

Ge 2:21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
Ge 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
Ge 2:23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

1Co 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man

Pierre

July 28, 2011 at 10:36 pm#254221

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,15:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,18:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,16:40)

Pierre,
Wrong verse…keep looking in John 17.
Kathi

Kathi

you mean that this one is not true ?

Pierre

Pierre,
This response of yours really makes me question your comprehension skills.

I never said the verse you found was not true, did I?
I said it was the wrong verse. You need to keep looking in chapter 17 to find the verse that you are looking for.

I think if your Bible study and comprehension skills are as dull as they appear in this conversation, you are not in a position to make judgements about people's Biblical understanding, imo.

Kathi

Moderator Note:
Please refrain from making judgements toward the person, but by all means critique his thinking. Using terms like ” if your Bible study and comprehension skills are as dull as they appear in this conversation” is starting to judge the person as opposed to critiquing his thinking or teaching.

July 28, 2011 at 10:40 pm#254222

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,16:05)

The presence or existence of the Son is why God is Almighty AND Father. The Son has always existed. The Father has always been Almighty.

Then you teach that God is not Almighty without the son.
I believe this is very wrong.

When Jesus died on the cross for example, then God Almighty didn't raise him from the dead, but a less than Almighty God did.

I can't go with your teaching as it poses to many threats to the character and person of God.

July 29, 2011 at 6:21 am#254275

Participant

t8,
I don't teach that God is ever not almighty. I teach that He has always been almighty. He has always been with the Son.
The Son that pre-existed the flesh never died. The Father was never without the Son. The Son of Man who had flesh died.

The unity of Jehovah our God is not a person but made up of two persons, the Father and the Son.

Kathi

July 29, 2011 at 6:31 am#254276

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 20 2011,23:30)

Quote (terraricca @ July 20 2011,16:55)

Kathi

just remember we are all gods

Pierre

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
I have said, ye are gods,…. In the law, Exodus 21:6 or they were so by his appointment and commission; he constituted them judges and magistrates, invested them with such an office, by which they came to have this title; see Romans 13:1, and so our Lord interprets these words, that they were gods “to whom” the word of God came, which gave them a commission and authority to exercise their office, John 10:35, or rather “against whom” it came, pronouncing the sentence of death on them, as in Psalm 82:7, to which the reference is; declaring, that though they were gods by office, yet were mortal men, and should die. The Targum is, “I said, as angels are ye accounted”; and so judges and civil magistrates had need to be as angels, and to have the wisdom of them; see 2 Samuel 14:20. Jarchi interprets it of angels, but magistrates are undoubtedly meant:

and all of you are children of the most High; the Targum here again renders it,

“the angels of the most High:''

and so Aben Ezra explains it of them who are called the sons of God, Job 38:7 but men in power are meant, who, because of their eminency and dignity, their high office, post, and place, are so called; see Genesis 6:2.

July 29, 2011 at 7:12 am#254279

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 28 2011,17:36)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,15:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,18:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,16:40)

Pierre,
Wrong verse…keep looking in John 17.
Kathi

Kathi

you mean that this one is not true ?

Pierre

Pierre,
This response of yours really makes me question your comprehension skills.

I never said the verse you found was not true, did I?
I said it was the wrong verse. You need to keep looking in chapter 17 to find the verse that you are looking for.

I think if your Bible study and comprehension skills are as dull as they appear in this conversation, you are not in a position to make judgements about people's Biblical understanding, imo.

Kathi

Quote

Please refrain from making judgements toward the person, but by all means critique his thinking.

I wasn't judging the person although he does that to me quite often, I was judging his comprehension and Bible study skills.

We are to make judgements t8, but only justly. I don't think that we can judge their heart though.

I was critiquing Pierre's comprehension and Bible Study skills and did not expect to see that Pierre could not find a particular verse, even when given the book and the chapter and keyword. Yet he preaches all over the forum and tells people how wrong they are because he has a different understanding. I expect more from a person that flaunts his understanding over others. I did not make my statement to him without witnessing this. If you want to witness this too, go here and that is where this particular question starts, second post down: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=200

He never did seem to find the verse which is a commonly known verse:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

1Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? 2Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, 6but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

Judging is not the problem here, flaunting one's Biblical understanding when one can't even find a verse when given the keyword, book and chapter is what I found to be evidence of poor Bible study skills and there was obvious comprehension issues also when I told him that the verse he found was the wrong verse. Note his response to that.

Read the conversation on the linked page and the following page.

t8, don't you think that someone who comes here flaunting their Biblical understanding ought to be able to find a particular verse when given the keyword, book and chapter?

Kathi

July 29, 2011 at 5:01 pm#254315

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,01:12)

Quote (t8 @ July 28 2011,17:36)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,15:08)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,18:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,16:40)

Pierre,
Wrong verse…keep looking in John 17.
Kathi

Kathi

you mean that this one is not true ?

Pierre

Pierre,
This response of yours really makes me question your comprehension skills.

I never said the verse you found was not true, did I?
I said it was the wrong verse. You need to keep looking in chapter 17 to find the verse that you are looking for.

I think if your Bible study and comprehension skills are as dull as they appear in this conversation, you are not in a position to make judgements about people's Biblical understanding, imo.

Kathi

Quote

Please refrain from making judgements toward the person, but by all means critique his thinking.

I wasn't judging the person although he does that to me quite often, I was judging his comprehension and Bible study skills.

We are to make judgements t8, but only justly. I don't think that we can judge their heart though.

He never did seem to find the verse which is a commonly known verse:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Read the conversation on the linked page and the following page.

t8, don't you think that someone who comes here flaunting their Biblical understanding ought to be able to find a particular verse when given the keyword, book and chapter?

Kathi

Kathi and T8

look' this is the starting point ;

Quote

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,12:05)
Pierre,
The Son of God was always 100% the Son of God, He didn't become the Son of God and He never stopped being the Son of God when He also became the Son of David in the flesh. He was 100% the Son of God and 100% the Son of David since His conception in Mary. Before that He was 100% the Son of God. After the conception in Mary, He was 100% Son of God and 100% Son of David.

To become a man, the Son of God had to give up His glory that He shared with the Father, temporarily. He got it back after the resurrection.

Kathi

Quote
To become a man, the Son of God had to give up His glory that He shared with the Father, temporarily. He got it back after the resurrection

where is that scripture ;glory that He shared with the Father

Pierre

and i assumed that Kathi knew this verse;Isa 42:8 “I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another

Pierre

July 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm#254324

Participant

Pierre,
I am fully aware of that verse. The one saying “I am the LORD; that is my name” is Jehovah our God who is both the Father and the Son. Jehovah is the name of their unity. Both the Father and the Son will not give up their glory to anyone, the glory that they have with one another.

Jesus tells us that they shared a common glory and will once again.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

When Jesus walked the earth He was not receiving the glory that He had beforehand of the unity of who this represents:”I am the LORD; that is my name…”
This only furthers the case for a compound unity Pierre.

Kathi

July 29, 2011 at 7:27 pm#254333

princess

Participant

T, help me out here will you, without going through the whole thread, i just kinda skimmed through the last page, and this is what I am digesting.

LU states: Without the Son, God would not be Almighty or Father, imo. *hence is LU opinion

T8 states: Then you teach that God is not Almighty without the son. I believe this is very wrong. * hence T8's belief.

LU states: I don't teach that God is ever not almighty. I teach that He has always been almighty. *hence LU teachings.

So lets get this straight, so it is understood.
LU opinions do not match her teachings.

I really think there is something wrong here in this thought processing. You understanding what I am saying T.

and how can one think that a persons heart cannot be judged, when it is fully known that you can't.

see T, this is why i don't join in these conversations.
The tatic of off get them off track by slandering them is one that is used by a triad of people here.

So the next time T, just ask LU

1. is this your opinion
2. is this your belief

Perhaps it will help you better understand what she is trying to present. I know that both should correspond with each other.

much love to you T.

July 29, 2011 at 8:12 pm#254338