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Yes Kenrch let it rest please. Thanks.
So….
1) Let others decide for themselves regarding the way Nick exposed the PM.
2) Let others also decide for themselves they way Kenrch condemned Nick publicly and didn't go through the procedure that he said Nick should have gone through.
So back to the real issue:
Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,23:22) So back to the real issue: Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Go, t8?Is that not a bit drastic?
I would personally like to see us work and grow closer to one another and to Christ thru' the process.
Hi t8,
Clarification. I do not mean to imply that you or anyone else would prefer to see either person go by my comment above. It is obvious that most are being impartial and wanting things to work out favorably for all. This is about the Lord's body after all. Let wisdom and love prevail.
Quote (Cubes @ Sep. 22 2006,13:41) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,23:22) So back to the real issue: Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Go, t8?Is that not a bit drastic?
I would personally like to see us work and grow closer to one another and to Christ thru' the process.
Both sides have had their say and it does no good to rehash it over and over. My take is both side believe they're right, but in either case are they teaching a different Gospel? So I agree with Cubes that expelling is a bit drastic. Sometimes you have to just turn it over to God, he will provide justice.T8, what proof is there that you, who is Nick's friend is not involved? Can you prove you did not do any editting or change any conversation? At the time of the incident, I was not able to get on the forum for three to four days. When I was able to get back on, the converstation, as I recalled, did not read the same. Now, I was relying only on memory, yet there was another who told me also that he to thought the conversation had been changed. Now, if Nick did not have the power to do this, who did it if conversation was indeed changed? Yet, along with conversation, would it not make sense to also change dates and times to not arrouse suspicion?
I posted to t8 that I am going to pray on how the Lord wants to deal with this situation. I believe that this forum has become a den of deception. Yet, there are many who are faithful and true and their paths are straight. On these, I will pray the Lord keep to the day of his coming.
The work the Lord has had me do here is finished. His message is pure and has been proven and reproven that it is his Words and not the Words of men that came here by his messenger. And if it is his will that I move on, then I will go and leave this group without posting what proof I have been able to gather as to my accusation. If it is his will I say, then I will post it if it is a prerequist of my saying in the group under one condition and that is if I post it, that if I am forced to post it, that Nick be forced to leave the group. So t8, the ball is back in you park if the Lord deems it nessassary that I stay.
t8 has removed my editting ability. A sign of his constitution. God Bless you brother. I still love you. I am sorry if I made you angry, but you should not be allowing the flesh to take control. That is what this is all about. I forgive you.
Quote Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,23:22)
So back to the real issue:Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Go, t8?
Is that not a bit drastic?
Wow. Man did this get out of hand.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,18:22) Yes Kenrch let it rest please. Thanks. So….
1) Let others decide for themselves regarding the way Nick exposed the PM.
2) Let others also decide for themselves they way Kenrch condemned Nick publicly and didn't go through the procedure that he said Nick should have gone through.
So back to the real issue:
Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
t8, are we having fun?
2) Let others also decide for themselves they way Kenrch condemned Nick publicly and didn't go through the procedure that he said Nick should have gone through.Funny I don't remember Nick sending me a PM. Yes that's right I called for justice right out in the open and not behind someones back. Where is Nick? t8 you can judge me all you want just read the scriptures. But I'm not proud if I un-intentionaly hurt someone then I apologize. See how easy that is! The truth will stand! I didn't call for anyones head just an apology.
Again what was I to do everything was already out in the open scripture clearly states that what Nick did was wrong. Nick did nothing to me but disobey Jesus' command. Which he did openly so what was the secret. Your attempt to turn things around might fool some people but it doesn't fool God. Your not that foolish are you?
You do what you want t8. But remember God can't forgive unless one repents.
kenrch you have accused Nick of things in these forums and I take it that you didn't go through the process that you are saying Nick failed in. According to your own preaching and actions I think you should apologise, but I am not going to force you to as you are trying to with Nick.
Anyway, I thought you were going to lay the burden down and let others decide for themselves?
Quote (david @ Sep. 23 2006,19:32) Quote Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,23:22)
So back to the real issue:Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Go, t8?
Is that not a bit drastic?
Wow. Man did this get out of hand.
Looking for a resolution david. Otherwise the barking wil continue till the world ends. I am sick of the noise. Not just that, but it gives time wasters leverage and they will milk it for what they can.There is a job to be done here (Heaven Net) and the enemy is the one who is distracting that purpose.
Repentance no problem. If an accuser cannot provide proof, then I can only assume that the 2nd rule is broken and there should be consistency lest some feel that they are being favoured.
When someone makes an accusation, be prepared to back up your words, otherwise don't do it. I don't want to participate in unnecessary division in the body of Christ.
Slander is not welcome here and never will be. Repentance is welcome.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 22 2006,23:21) t8 has removed my editting ability. A sign of his constitution. God Bless you brother. I still love you. I am sorry if I made you angry, but you should not be allowing the flesh to take control. That is what this is all about. I forgive you.
Editing is given to those who can be trusted. I am not sure if I can trust you. Sorry but that is the reality now.In order to be trusted, you should first have evidence to backup what you say. I have seen members change their posts before, when they cannot wriggle their way out. I am still waiting for your evidence, but I am also wise enough to know human nature and I am not willing to take a risk and waste anymore time either.
It is not the flesh H, it is being cautious and I am not going to allow the possibility of more problems.
I ask you one more time, provide the proof that Nick deceptively edited his posts and then lied, or apologise to Nick. Either of these requests is not hard and they are indeed the honourable thing to do in this situation.
Otherwise I have no choice but adhere to the rules of this board and you know what that means.
I will give you 3 days to provide the proof. If you need an extention, then please ask.
I want resolution, so please do not delay.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 22 2006,22:41) Quote (Cubes @ Sep. 22 2006,13:41) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2006,23:22) So back to the real issue: Where/what post did Nick deceptively edit. I await the answer. If there is no proof then the accuser should go, unless he apologises. If Nick did deceptively edit a post and lie about it, then surely he has to go unless he repents.
I think that is fair. Obviously people want justice and this is it.
Go, t8?Is that not a bit drastic?
I would personally like to see us work and grow closer to one another and to Christ thru' the process.
Both sides have had their say and it does no good to rehash it over and over. My take is both side believe they're right, but in either case are they teaching a different Gospel? So I agree with Cubes that expelling is a bit drastic. Sometimes you have to just turn it over to God, he will provide justice.
I am not saying who is right seekingtruth, I am saying that if someone makes an accusation, then they should show the proof or not make the accusation in the first place. I also need to enforce the rules or things get out of hand.With regards to the process that Paul speaks of, the accuser here doesn't obey his own rules as he to has made accusations in these forums too and I take it that he hasn't gone through the process that he speaks of. Also I don't think it is a sin to mismanage something, and I do not believe that it was mismanaged either. There is a trail of posts that show a witness as to what was going on and they were public. So showing an accusation or sin to the Chruch is not a sin.
In the end if members have to be expelled for creating division and continued accusations, then I will do it, in order for the rest of us to get on with what is important.
Surely you can't be proposing that we just leave these guys to accuse and pull others down from here on in? Heaven Net was never setup to cater for these kinds of people.
That is not the mission here. The mission is to seek truth and be united in that truth. It is not to defend ourselves for the rest of our lives against angry and carnal minded people.
There are more important things at hand than trying to slander a brother. Yes accuse if the evidence is there, but do not slander. It's as simple as that.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2006,04:18) kenrch you have accused Nick of things in these forums and I take it that you didn't go through the process that you are saying Nick failed in. According to your own preaching and actions I think you should apologise, but I am not going to force you to as you are trying to with Nick. Anyway, I thought you were going to lay the burden down and let others decide for themselves?
I will lay it down if you would stop bring it up! Besides I did apologize the only one who hasn't is Nick. Why is that? Believe it or not I'm trying to help Nick with his problem with pride and have been trying to help him since day one while you are feeding the problem. As I have stated before I recognized Nick's problem because Satan once had me bound up with the very same thing. It is all in love! I don't want Nick to leave just apologize which would be a beginning of repentance and once again be humbled as a servant should be.T8,
I was not saying who was right and I do understand you need to enforce rules. I sure wasn't saying this should continue, quite the opposite I was asking both parties to “stand down” before others are ruined by listening.You said the mission was that we should be united in truth, and I agree, but we should also be united in love.
I've been slandered many times, a couple of years ago I was sued for infringement and breach of contract by a $60 billion dollar company. My company I had worked so hard to build was all but put out of business. I felt God had called me to minister by running the business in a way that glorified him.
I felt many people believed I had done something wrong. My integrity has always been important to me and being innocent (and the ones suing me knew it) I was being slandered. Even my investors felt I was guilty and fired everyone (myself included), and pulled all funding. I had to cancel a second honeymoon and spent my 30th wedding anniversary in court. One year later the judge found me guilty on one of the counts and the other party was looking for a remedy in hundreds of thousands of dollars (far more then I got), which just made all the more people believe I was guilty.
I was devastated and felt I could never do anything to prove my innocence. I turned it over to God knowing he knew I was innocent but figured my reputation was shot. It took one and a half years but the same judge that had found me guilty on the one count awarded the ones suing me $1.00 and declared me innocent on all others counts, but more importantly he chewed out the ones who had brought suit against me, I never believed this would happen.
I have since found out that my integrity was the talk of the town (most did not believe I was guilty after all) and how I reacted despite what was happening caused many others to glorify God.
My point on this long winded post is if we patiently endure when we are unjustly persecuted God will be glorified and He will set things right beyond our wildest expectations, if in His infinite wisdom, that is best.
Hi seekingtruth.
Thanks for your post and your wisdom brother.
I feel that we could spend our lives here defending ourselves against the accusations of others. I have been accused of being antichrist, and all sorts of other things. But yes you are right in that we can glorify God in the end. But I do prefer that these kinds of people didn't come here in the first place. That way we would be free to discover the scriptures together.
However I suppose that we should just accept that we will be opposed in every way. In a funny old way, accusation and persecution leads us to dig deeper into our beliefs so the result is the same in the end.
But the friction is the part I don't enjoy.
thx
kenrch, if Nick has a problem with pride, there are ways to help. As seekingtruth has said, love and truth go together.
Fighting pride with pride is non productive.
If you really believe that he is caught in pride, then love is the best way to win him over is it not?
If it turns out that you are wrong, it doesn't matter because you have demonstrated love and no one can righteously accuse you if you truly love.
But when it becomes a competition and reputations are trying to win, then how is that love and how is that truth?
I have said all along that if anything is going to win in these forums it should be the truth and not people. But what is truth without love as seekingtruth has rightly pointed out?
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2006,05:32) I feel that we could spend our lives here defending ourselves against the accusations of others. I have been accused of being antichrist, and all sorts of other things. But yes you are right in that we can glorify God in the end. But I do prefer that these kinds of people didn't come here in the first place. That way we would be free to discover the scriptures together. However I suppose that we should just accept that we will be opposed in every way. In a funny old way, accusation and persecution leads us to dig deeper into our beliefs so the result is the same in the end.
But the friction is the part I don't enjoy.
thx
Amen to that (especially the last line). It's never fun to endure trials but I have found that once I do you can relate better with a brother going through a similar trial, and have more wisdom to help. Wisdom, to a great part (at least for me) is gained through trials (it makes the Word come alive).Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2006,10:38) kenrch, if Nick has a problem with pride, there are ways to help. As seekingtruth has said, love and truth go together. Fighting pride with pride is non productive.
If you really believe that he is caught in pride, then love is the best way to win him over is it not?
If it turns out that you are wrong, it doesn't matter because you have demonstrated love and no one can righteously accuse you if you truly love.
But when it becomes a competition and reputations are trying to win, then how is that love and how is that truth?
I have said all along that if anything is going to win in these forums it should be the truth and not people. But what is truth without love as seekingtruth has rightly pointed out?
If I'm wrong I'm sorry my heart was in the right place believe me. You say I am wrong so be it but deep in my spirit I know what I did was of God. You and the others may never see it that way. I pray Nick comes out the winner in all this and realizes his problem and becomes a humble servant instead of using venom for words. If you and the others believe I'm a burden and not a contributor then I will leave the forum for the good of all.I await your reply
kenrch,
For my part I appreciate your contribution. We will all answer to God for the thing done in this body. If someones is wrong and you bring it to their attention by the steps laid out in scripture, then you've done your job and to go beyond that is “quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.”I love you brother, but I love others here also, and if for no other reason let it go for their sake. I would ask the same of all other parties.
Remember God did not prevent the wolves from entering in (I'm not choosing sides but the above is the best approach to real or perceived problems) leave it to God.
I hope and pray that you stay.
There are peacemakers and peacekeepers, peacemakers address the issue at it's cause, peacekeepers just try to enforce peace through manipulation, I pray this is not what I'm attempting. The intent of my post is not to have us ignore issues they need to be addressed but at some point we are “beating a dead horse” and it does nothing.
Open for correction.
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