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Georg,
YOU SAID: Jesus was our ransom, his flesh body that is, had that body been resurrected, it would have made the ransom void, and our sins would not be forgiven.
I don't know where you get your ideas from. You bring up many Scriptures yet seem to negate them with your opinions. It is as if you read the Scriptures and then read another source that tells you what to believe. However, in answer to your response according to the thread, I give you these verses to show that Jesus had the same body after the resurrection that he had when he died.
Mat 28:6 “He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He WAS lying.
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.
Mar 16:16 “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Luk 24:39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
Luk 24:49 “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
Jhn 20:20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
Jhn 20:25 So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
Jhn 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
Notice that Jesus wants them to look at his hands and feet and side, why? Because they saw him impailed on the cross and the holes were still there and he wanted them to see them. Thomas even was told to put his hand in his side…..
Professor
“””Georg,
YOU SAID: Jesus was our ransom, his flesh body that is, had that body been resurrected, it would have made the ransom void, and our sins would not be forgiven.
I don't know where you get your ideas from. You bring up many Scriptures yet seem to negate them with your opinions. It is as if you read the Scriptures and then read another source that tells you what to believe. However, in answer to your response according to the thread, I give you these verses to show that Jesus had the same body after the resurrection that he had when he died.”””Mainly from these scriptures
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
If Jesus died for our sins, and then was resurrected with the same body; why could God not have that done with Adam? why was it necessary for Jesus to die?
Mat 28:6 “He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He WAS lying.
This is why?
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Jesus) to see corruption (decay).
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.
You know, spirit beings have the ability to manifest them self as human beings.
Gen 18:1 ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
These were spirit beings, you may want to read the rest in your own Bible.
Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Can a flesh body go through walls? Jesus appeared to them inside the room with a flesh body so they could see him, they thought he was a ghost (spirit).
Jhn 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Why did Jesus showed them his nail marks? because they did not “recognize” him by sight.
Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
This is speaking of Jesus, would you say that this describes a glorified body?
Jhn 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
Again, Thomas did not recognise Jesus by sight, only after inspecting the wounds did he believe it was Jesus.
Jesus was a spirit being before he became man, after his job was done, God gave him back his true nature, spirit.Georg
Georg,
Where is this in Scripture?:
Jesus was #1)a spirit being before he became man, after his job was done, #2) God gave him back his true nature, spirit.
Georg,
YOU: Can a flesh body go through walls? Jesus appeared to them inside the room with a flesh body so they could see him, they thought he was a ghost (spirit).
Apparently he knew how to “teletransport”. Out of nowhere he appeared and that is why they thought he was a spirit.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 04 2010,08:39) Georg, Where is this in Scripture?:
Jesus was #1)a spirit being before he became man, after his job was done, #2) God gave him back his true nature, spirit.
Frankly, I don't think you're looking for answers, your looking for arguments; I hope you had your fun.Georg
George,
Do you see the mistaken use of 'Nature' for 'Form' in Dbf's post?Jesus always had a Godly nature, but was not always in the Form of God.
On earth, he was in the 'Form of Man' but had the both the nature of man, the capacity to sin, to be wounded, to be belittled, to feel physical pain, hunger, thirst, fear, etc, and also a Godly nature, loving rightiousness, knowing God his Father, having no Spiritual fear, full belief and faith.JA………..I Jesus existed in the (FORM) of GOD , can you describe that FORM to Us seeing no one have ever seen GOD. I do understand the nature of GOD, Is the Nature produced by his Spirit in us and Jesus. But FORM ? And another thing when did Jesus (EXIST) in This so called (FORM)> Paul was talking about Jesus' existence when he was on earth , not at any other time in his life as Preexistences try to imply. Please describe what the FORM of GOD IS LIKE> If you can.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene,
You coming in at the backend of a dialogue i'm having with George. He will know what my post means.Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 04 2010,23:46) George,
Do you see the mistaken use of 'Nature' for 'Form' in Dbf's post?Jesus always had a Godly nature, but was not always in the Form of God.
On earth, he was in the 'Form of Man' but had the both the nature of man, the capacity to sin, to be wounded, to be belittled, to feel physical pain, hunger, thirst, fear, etc, and also a Godly nature, loving rightiousness, knowing God his Father, having no Spiritual fear, full belief and faith.
Our nature is physical, human; our form is flesh, but as Paul said, not all flesh is the same.1Cr 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
That, you might say, is our form; we walk on two legs, have two arms, etc; our form is different then those of animals.
Obviously, no one can describe the form, or what God looks like, if that is what you mean.
Jesus, and the angels, have a godly nature (spirit); Jesus gave up “that” nature when he became one of us; like you said, in the form of man. As a man he had a godly character, not a godly nature, he was, after all, all human.
He had the same mind that he had as a spirit being, and knew who his Father was, where he came from, and why he had come.
That's how I would explain it.Georg
anyone
can you explain ;if Christ was resurrected with the same body and features that is ,WHY IS IT THAT THE ONES SO CLOSE TO HIM DID NOT RECONGNIZE HIM??
Jn 20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
Jn 20:15 “Woman,” he said, “why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
Jn 20:16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
Jn 20:20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and sideHERE THEY RECOGNIZED THE SIGNS LEFT BY HIS CRUSIFICATION.
Jn 21:4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
Jn 21:5 He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”
“No,” they answered.
Jn 21:6 He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
Jn 21:7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heardHERE IT IS THE SPIRIT OF JOHN WHO TOLD PETER IT WAS THE LORD.
Jn 21:12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.
Lk 24:13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem.
Lk 24:14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.
Lk 24:15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;
Lk 24:16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
Lk 24:17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast.
Lk 24:18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
Lk 24:19 “What things?” he asked.SO WICH BODY A NEW OR THE OLD FLESH FROM THE SACRIFICE ? IF IT IS SACRIFICED HOW THEN CAN IT BE REUSED ?
WHEN SOMETHING DIES IT IS GONE NO?
Pierre
Pierre
“””can you explain ;if Christ was resurrected with the same body and features that is ,WHY IS IT THAT THE ONES SO CLOSE TO HIM DID NOT RECONGNIZE HIM??”””
Good question, I have ask it several times, haven't gotten an answer yet.
Georg
Quote (Baker @ Sep. 06 2010,20:37) Pierre “””can you explain ;if Christ was resurrected with the same body and features that is ,WHY IS IT THAT THE ONES SO CLOSE TO HIM DID NOT RECONGNIZE HIM??”””
Good question, I have ask it several times, haven't gotten an answer yet.
Georg
hi GeorgI will try ,but it will take a little time so i can put the info together,
but you know that the body of Moses was never found,
to me i do believe Christ body the one he died with is gone and was dealt with. and he took another one ,Just as angels materialize in Human figure,this is why they never recognized him anytime at his presence the signs of his crucifiction where present ,and this is the important part.
for now have peace
Pierre
Pierre! Scripture tells me that Jesus took on the glorified body He had before the world was. John 17:5 says so…..The one part however that is different is that He now has immortality. He will die no more….Once for all the sins of the world….We now are under a new covenant in His Blood. Luke 22:20
He also gave us the great commandments listed in Math. 22:37-40 and magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount….However sin is not imputed to us…. that gives us no license to sin….Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus Ephesians 2:8-10 so no one can boast….
The glory belongs to our God and Christ Jesus our Lord, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS………IreneQuote (Baker @ Sep. 07 2010,02:50) Pierre! Scripture tells me that Jesus took on the glorified body He had before the world was. John 17:5 says so…..The one part however that is different is that He now has immortality. He will die no more….Once for all the sins of the world….We now are under a new covenant in His Blood. Luke 22:20
He also gave us the great commandments listed in Math. 22:37-40 and magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount….However sin is not imputed to us…. that gives us no license to sin….Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus Ephesians 2:8-10 so no one can boast….
The glory belongs to our God and Christ Jesus our Lord, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS………Irene
hi ireneyou absolutely correct ,that Christ is now glorified ,but i was talking about the body he had at the time when he appears to his disciples and on earth.that was my question,
but yes i agree with you.and more
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 06 2010,15:26) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 06 2010,20:37) Pierre “””can you explain ;if Christ was resurrected with the same body and features that is ,WHY IS IT THAT THE ONES SO CLOSE TO HIM DID NOT RECONGNIZE HIM??”””
Good question, I have ask it several times, haven't gotten an answer yet.
Georg
hi GeorgI will try ,but it will take a little time so i can put the info together,
but you know that the body of Moses was never found,
to me i do believe Christ body the one he died with is gone and was dealt with. and he took another one ,Just as angels materialize in Human figure,this is why they never recognized him anytime at his presence the signs of his crucifiction where present ,and this is the important part.
for now have peace
Pierre
PierreWhen I posed my question, it was not aimed at you, I meant in general, I had ask others, and not gotten a response.
Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 07 2010,09:06) hi georg it seems you will not receive an answer very few have true knowledge here.
Pierre
aren't you but a man?how sure are you in your own knowledge?
a fool would say, he knows…
a saint would be humbled and disgraced, only grasping onto faith.
rM
Mt 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Mt 11:26 Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasurePierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2010,16:14) rM Mt 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Mt 11:26 Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasurePierre
PierreYou can not argue with those who refuse to learn.
Georg
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