'Abomination of Desolation' – setting the record straight on what it is

[Ed J]

Hi Marty,

“In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them
that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the
(muslim) beast, neither his (islamic) image, neither had received his (false prophet) mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev 20:4)

1) islam beheads Christians for the witness of Jesus …(Proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God and Christ)
2) islam beheads Christians for “The Word” of God ….(speaking what the bible says about their religion)

Note: “The Word” and Jesus are not the same, YOUR religion has lied to YOU

[Ed J]

Hi Ed:

Hi Marty,
“The Rapture” will be quite “a sign” to those that are left behind – right?

Those who are left behind will have received the mark of the beast, and will be judged by “the seven last plagues”. There will be no second chance as some are teaching.

Hi Marty,

Sorry to be the guy to inform you, but ‘the rapture’ is a false doctrine – NO SUCH SIGN!

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall NO SIGN
be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be
three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment
with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and,
behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this
generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the
wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.” (Matt 12:39-42)

________________
God bless
Ed J

[942767]

Hi Ed:

Thanks for your advice, but I will believe the scriptures. The rapture is not intended to be a sign to the lost. It is intended to take God’s children out of this world so that he judge those who are lost and alive at his coming.

I have already posted the scriptures for you in a previous post.

[942767]

Hi Ed:

HI Marty,

Please give me your take on this… (Psalms 107:23-32)

I am not sure what you want to hear from me regarding this psalm. The essence is that men call out to God when they are in trouble, and he saves them. If every thing is going well with men, usually they don’t think they have a need for God, but when trouble comes then they turn to God asking for His help.

[Ed J]

Hi Ed:

Thanks for your advice, but I will believe the scriptures. The rapture is not intended to be a sign to the lost. It is intended to take God’s children out of this world so that he judge those who are lost and alive at his coming.

I have already posted the scriptures for you in a previous post.

Hi Marty,

The bible speaks of no such event, only misinterpretations of 1Thess 4:17.
You and I both know that if there was a rapture it would be quite a sign.
But unfortunately religion has lied to you – there will be no rapture.

Now back to subject.

1. What is the ‘abomination of desolation’
2. What happened 1,290 days before
3. What happened 1,260 days after

And please give dates for all these as I have done

Thank you
Ed J

[942767]

Hi Ed:

Hi Marty,

Matt 24:37-44 is about the “Feast of Tabernacles”
not “Pentecost”. You would do yourself well
to study the seven feasts of the LORD.

These scriptures don’t show anyone doing any celebrating. These scriptures are talking about judgment comparing the flood in Noah’s time to the end time judgment of those that are not in the ark, the body of Christ.

As born again Christians, we are living in temporary tabernacles, our current bodies praising God as we await our redemption and our spiritual body which will be our dwelling for an eternity.

[942767]

Hi Ed:

Note: “The Word” and Jesus are not the same, YOUR religion has lied to YOU

The testimony of Jesus is my confession that he is my Lord. The Word of God is that which God has spoken through his servants from the beginning including that which he has spoken to us in this last days through his Son.

Hebrews 1King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 12:

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

(I do believe that Islam is Anti-Christ because they do not believe the Father and the Son.) However, what I try to do is convince them that the bible is the Word of God and that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that he has given his life for whosoever will come to God with a repentant heart through him.

[Ed J]

Hi Ed:

Hi Marty,

Matt 24:37-44 is about the “Feast of Tabernacles”
not “Pentecost”. You would do yourself well
to study the seven feasts of the LORD.

These scriptures don’t show anyone doing any celebrating. These scriptures are talking about judgment comparing the flood in Noah’s time to the end time judgment of those that are not in the ark, the body of Christ.

As born again Christians, we are living in temporary tabernacles, our current bodies praising God as we await our redemption and our spiritual body which will be our dwelling for an eternity.

Hi Marty.

Sorry to inform you, but you will have to wait until the Resurrection
to get the body which you will be dwelling in for eternity; no rapture.

________________
God bless
Ed J

[Ed J]

(I do believe that Islam is Anti-Christ because they do not believe the Father and the Son.) However, what I try to do is convince them that the bible is the Word of God and that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that he has given his life for whosoever will come to God with a repentant heart through him.

Hi Marty,

Have any luck convincing them?

[Ed J]

Hi Ed:

Note: “The Word” and Jesus are not the same, YOUR religion has lied to YOU

The testimony of Jesus is my confession that he is my Lord. The Word of God is that which God has spoken through his servants from the beginning including that which he has spoken to us in this last days through his Son.

Hi Marty,

I agree with what you said, but what has that have to do with the lie religion has told?

Is Jesus the Logos? NO!
And I have given three reasons
so far using Scripture why he is NOT! …[b](Link to thread)[/b]

_________________
God bless
Ed J

[942767]

Hi Ed:

Note: “The Word” and Jesus are not the same, YOUR religion has lied to YOU

The testimony of Jesus is my confession that he is my Lord. The Word of God is that which God has spoken through his servants from the beginning including that which he has spoken to us in this last days through his Son.

Hi Marty,

I agree with what you said, but what has that have to do with the lie religion has told?

Is Jesus the Logos? NO!
And I have given three reasons
so far using Scripture why he is NOT!

Why do you call it my religion.  I don’t have a religion.  I agree that Jesus is not the Logos.  Have you not read my posts relative to this subject?

[Miia]

Matthew 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Hi Marty,

The verses you have quoted above Matthew chapter 24, verse one to 20 are in regard to Jerusalem. From the verse you bolded (21) to the end of the chapter regards the world. Therefore, the abomination of desolation is passed (it led up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD), but verse 21 onward regards us. I made a post a few pages back regarding the different words used. I’ll repost it and bold them.

 

THE END OF THE AGE

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (the age: aion: Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age.http://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm) And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you (you: the Disiples and early Christians) astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. (the end of what? End of the age) For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, (this happened to the Disciples and early church), and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the earth (the earth: oikoumené: Definition: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.http://biblehub.com/greek/3625.htm) as a testimony to all nations (all nations: Gentiles around Jerusalem http://biblehub.com/greek/1484.htm) and then the end (the end: of the age) will come.

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. (obviously, Jerusalem 70 AD)

————————————-

THE END OF THE WORLD

Then (after the destruction of Jerusalem which Jesus was just speaking about, now it is our times) there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world (the world: the word here is kosmos, definition: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.http://biblehub.com/greek/2889.htm) until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. (this warning about false christs is a repeat, firstly it was mentioned regarding the end of the age. Now again for the end of the world/ coming of Christ). So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.(That hasn’t happened yet). Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days (those days regarding the world) the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, (you both deny that heaven and earth will pass away) but my words will not pass away.

“But concerning that day and hour (that day and hour: the return of Christ and end of the world) no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken (taken away by death just like in the flood but this time fire) and one left (saved alive, then is the raising up/ rapture – see 1 Thessalonians 4)). Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

(Italics and titles my own)

[Miia]

No my friend the Church will not end, and neither will God destroy the Earth as Miia teaches.

 

Ed, when did I say that the church would end???

[Miia]

The bible speaks of no such event, only misinterpretations of 1Thess 4:17.
You and I both know that if there was a rapture it would be quite a sign.
But unfortunately religion has lied to you – there will be no rapture.

Hi Ed,

When Jesus returns, the world will be destroyed by fire, because that is what scripture says, and when I prayed and asked God how we would know that Jesus has returned, that is the answer I received, and it is scriptural. but God will give protection against the fire to those He chooses, and like the three men in the pit (Daniel 3) they will be the only survivors. Then Jesus will gather them up, and they will meet Him in the air. THIS IS HOW WE WILL KNOW IT IS THE REAL JESUS RETURNED, THERE WILL BE NO QUESTION.

23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Then will be the rapture for all that remains alive.
 
The Coming of the Lord

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left at the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

 

I am at the stage now where I have kind of grown tired of debate. I think I prefer to speak to those who understand. I  can LEARN more off them, (Lutheran, Orthodox, perhaps Catholic?).

 

 

[Ed J]

(1)I agree that Jesus is not the Logos. (2)Have you not read my posts relative to this subject?

Hi Marty,
1) Great!
2) I thought I have, but maybe not.

_______________
God bless
Ed J

[kerwin]

To whomever is concerned,

An except from “Aelia Capitolina, Jerusalem as a Roman Pagan City“.

Just as David built his altar on the site of the Jebusite altar some thousand years earlier, the Romans built two temples to displace Jewish and Christian worship at Jerusalem’s holy sites. On the Temple Mount Hadrian built a temple to Jupiter. Literary sources refers to two statutes on the Temple Mount, one of them of Hadrian. An inscription which was found in secondary use on the Mount refers to Emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161). On the traditional site of the crucifixion Hadrian built a temple to Aphrodite. This temple was torn down about 200 hundred years later by the Byzantines, who reclaimed the site for Christianity by building the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Under the church archaeologists found retaining walls built to artificially elevate the base of the pagan temple, just as Herod did when he leveled and expanded the Temple Mount.

[Miia]

That was quite interesting, thanks Kerwin.

It says:

(70 AD) The city was now desolate, the walls in ruins …… Jerusalem’s original Christian community, led by Jesus’ brother James, was expelled from the city before the revolt, in 66.

So, if the Christians left the city in 66 AD (after heeding Jesus’ warnings), add 42 months and we have 70 AD when Jerusalem was left desolate, just as scripture said.

[Miia]

When Jesus said regarding the temple ‘there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down’, he was of course correct.
Funny that people would assume Jesus tells the Disciples “not one stone”, and then goes on to warn them what would happen more than two thousand years later, with no word of warning concerning their own generation. No. Jesus was talking to the Disciples and warning the early church, of course. Why would he not.

[kerwin]

To whomever it may concern;

High School review of Marius Heemstra, The Fiscus Judaicus and the Parting of the Ways

While Heemstra overstates his case at times, he does substantiate his main thesis. The fiscus Judaicus did have a much greater impact upon Judaism and Christianity at the end of the first century than has been acknowledged by most other scholars. As such, Heemstra’s work should be commended to any scholars seeking to understand this era in Roman, Jewish, and Christian history.

[kerwin]

To whomever it may concern,

Wikipedia article on Ebionites

The earliest reference to a group that might fit the description of the later Ebionites appears in Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho (c. 140). Justin distinguishes between Jewish Christians who observe the Law of Moses but do not require its observance upon others, and those who believe the Mosaic Law to be obligatory on all.

[Author]

Posts