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To All………I have seen this idea of waht the word or a word is kicked around here over and over again. So let's see if we can settle that at least.
Strong starts of with…….> something said, (inluding the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; Spicifically (with the article in John) the Divine EXPRESSION (that is, Christ); -account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine dame X have to do, intent, matter, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing,+ none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work
Thayer………Has it……> 1) of speech
1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
1b) what someone has said
1b1) a word
1b2) the sayings of GOD
1b3) decree, mandate or order
1b4) of the moral precepts given by GOD
1b5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets.
1b6) What is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
1c) Discourse
1c1) the act of speaking, speech, skill and practice of speaking
1c2) the faculty of speech and practice in seeking
1c3) a kind or style of speaking
1c4) a continuous speaking discourse-instruction
1d) doctrine, teaching
1e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrativeAnd on and on it goes but the most simplest Understanding in my opinion is a word is an (INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE) Which comes forth from a Being rather GOD or MAN. It is the expression of His mind and therefore is part of his existence and being.
notice………..in none of these definitions do we see the word (Jesus) as being the WORD Himself, i am not saying Jesus did not (speak) the words of GOD to Us , but was He himself those word he spoke to us (NO) He was not and even said they were (NOT) HIS WORDS. IMO
peace and love to you All………………………gene
To All………Can anyone prove Jesus spoke His Own Words to us or was He quoting someone Else's words. If a word comes from you or me it (IS) part of OUR Existence being expressed by the utterance of those words, it comes from our minds “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS” and what (WE) think comes from our (own) reasoning. However If i were to quote your words or someone else's words then I can Not lay claim to them. Jesus could not have Been the Word because He Spoke someone else's (NOT) His Own Words. He did not lay claim the the words He Spoke as Being HIS.
Therefore John 1:1…………..Is speaking about GOD himself and the Word Was GOD HIMSELF, and the word was with GOD Himself, Just as your words are with you yourself and are an the expression of you thoughts. Not Jesus' the anointed one. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 17 2010,23:40) To All………Can anyone prove Jesus spoke His Own Words to us or was He quoting someone Else's words. If a word comes from you or me it (IS) part of OUR Existence being expressed by the utterance of those words, it comes from our minds “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS” and what (WE) think comes from our (own) reasoning. However If i were to quote your words or someone else's words then I can Not lay claim to them. Jesus could not have Been the Word because He Spoke someone else's (NOT) His Own Words. He did not lay claim the the words He Spoke as Being HIS. Therefore John 1:1…………..Is speaking about GOD himself and the Word Was GOD HIMSELF, and the word was with GOD Himself, Just as your words are with you yourself and are an the expression of you thoughts. Not Jesus' the anointed one. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………….gene
hi geneat the least a bat as radar,you have only darkness.
Pierre
Terricca………Again following your Father the accuser i See, If you disagree then produce the scriptures , instead of vomiting our your shame and accusing spirit on others.
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 17 2010,16:06) To All………I have seen this idea of what the word or a word is kicked around here over and over again. So let's see if we can settle that at least. peace and love to you All………………………gene
Hi Gene,Many here keep bolstering the traditions of men?
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.“HolySpirit“ = “Father: The Word“ … (Click Here)
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and
“The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I(Jesus) should say, and what I should speak.“The Word” is (אלהים) “GOD” (John 1:1)! Jesus is “A Word”!
“The Word” (Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 is the 86th prime
meaning [אלהים=86] “GOD” ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63 (YHVH=63)!The “HolySpirit” is “The Word”(of God)!
Hebrew↔Greek
(86)אלהים=ο λογος(86th Prime)
(ĔL-ō-Hêêm)God=The Word(Hō Lōgôs)(Lōgôs) [λογος]=373 means “Word”, and 373 is the 74th Prime Number!
(Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 means “The Word” and 443 is the 86th Prime Number. (John 1:1)
“God Word”=86 and אלהים=86 ĔL-ō-Hêêm both equal 86 and ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63 means “YHVH”=63.In English, the significant number (74) is attributed to JOSHUA=74, Messiah=74;
also in the following: JESUS=74, Cross=74, Gospel=74, עד=74, and even English=74.
Jesus Christ (74×32) also factors 74 in Greek Theomatically:
[Jesus] Ιησους=74(x12), [Christ] Χριστоς=74(x20).
[Son of Man] υιος τον ανθρωπου=74(x40).This symbol ( > ) means GREATER THAN in mathematics
The pieces fit together perfectly: “The Word” (86) > “Word” (74).
In English it's comparable to (The LORD JEHOVAH) > (Lord Jesus=74) is the “God Son”=74!
“The Owner” > “Owner “
JEHOVAH > Jesus
86 > 74Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2010,00:57) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 17 2010,23:40) To All………Can anyone prove Jesus spoke His Own Words to us or was He quoting someone Else's words. If a word comes from you or me it (IS) part of OUR Existence being expressed by the utterance of those words, it comes from our minds “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS” and what (WE) think comes from our (own) reasoning. However If i were to quote your words or someone else's words then I can Not lay claim to them. Jesus could not have Been the Word because He Spoke someone else's (NOT) His Own Words. He did not lay claim the the words He Spoke as Being HIS. Therefore John 1:1…………..Is speaking about GOD himself and the Word Was GOD HIMSELF, and the word was with GOD Himself, Just as your words are with you yourself and are an the expression of you thoughts. Not Jesus' the anointed one. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………….gene
hi geneat the least a bat as radar,you have only darkness.
Pierre
Hi Pierre, AMEN! Someone please turn on the LIGHT.Allegory: a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.
Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our god.”
Gene, In John 1:1 you'd be better off leaving “Word” as “Word” and utilize it as a Name. That way you won't get confused with “word” being an allegory or metaphor.
Who was THE BEGINNING? Jesus.
Who was in the beginning with God? Word.
The Professor
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 17 2010,00:40) However If i were to quote your words or someone else's words then I can Not lay claim to them.
GeneExactly, which means that the words you speak are not you.
So tell us Gene what word or words that you have ever spoken belonged to you? What words originated with you?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 18 2010,07:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 17 2010,00:40) However If i were to quote your words or someone else's words then I can Not lay claim to them.
GeneExactly, which means that the words you speak are not you.
So tell us Gene what word or words that you have ever spoken belonged to you? What words originated with you?
WJ
Hi WJ,If you think Gene's words aren't 'a person',
what makes you 'think' God's words are?
Seems 'your logic' is a bit FLAWED; No?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWj………Words are an (EXPRESSION) OF A PERSONS INTELLECT THAT HE UTTERS, RATHER HIS OR SOMEONE ELSE'S THEY STILL ARE EXPRESSION OF INTELLECTS THAT ARE (UTTERED). If they come from your mind or your precepts then that is you, if they are (quoted) then that is the mind or precepts of that mind that is being quoted. Jesus (QUOTED) to us GOD the Fathers Word not HIS OWN WORDS. Do you at least agree with that statement brother.
peace and love,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gene
To All……I mean if we can even agree on what a WORD REALLY IS, man we are screwed up!> Again A WORD is Simply an (INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE) By someone. THIS IS BASIC IT SHOULD BE A NO BRAINIER. A word proceeds from a mind it begins as a thought and then uttered and it is who the person really is “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS”. GOD and (His) words are one and the same. We and (OUR) Words are one and the same thing. If you exactly quote some one else's words That are exactly as the Words you quote. Jesus quoted GOD'S word to Us (NOT) His Word , GOD told Jesus not only what to say but How to say it.
peace and love……………………..gene
Without reading the posts here due to lack of time, I should point out something that needs to be said.
God has many attributes. Truth, life, wisdom, love, etc.
Sometimes God expresses these attributes in a living being besides himself.
e.g., wisdom was given birth and was the craftsman at God's side.
Jesus who is not God, said he was the Truth and the Life.
The word which is also in God, was WITH God and that Word that was WITH God was Jesus according to the apostle's testimony.
That same apostle also said that he was the Word of Life.So you can make all the arguments you like about attributes, and we should acknowledge the attributes of God, but when God expresses those attributes, then it is through a visible being which God is not.
How else does an invisible God show his attribute of life? He creates or begats life. How else does he show his truth? Perhaps through Jesus primarily and others too. Also remember that Jesus is the express image of the invisible God, and the fullness of God's nature in bodily form.
Do not pass this off so fast just because it might not agree with your theology. Give it thought at least.
T8………We to can come to the (FULL) Measure of Jesus also as scripture says. That is the purpose pf GOD , to bring us (ALL) tho that (FULL) Measure that is in Christ Jesus. This is our Hope in GOD. But you separate Jesus from our (exact) idenity by you false teaching of Preexistence. IMO
peace and love………………………….gene
Gene! I agree with t8 and the Professor, The Word of God in John 1:1 is not the only Scripture that shows us that it is or became Jesus.
Rev, 19:13-16 I have written this out before, yet you insist that it is your way or no way.
Tell me who else fits that description? He had a robe on dipped in blood and His name is The Word of God. In verse 18 He also is called KING Of KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And He will come again as that….. He was in Heaven with His Father by His own words. The Word of God became flesh, that is not the word of Jehovah. Jehovah's word never became flesh….So your theory does not fit….IreneHi Everyone,
Gene is right! Here is 'your' proof!
I have lined “Bible Truth”=117 up to help you to better
understand “Our YHVH”=117; the God of our fathers.John 1:1…
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.English ↔ Hebrew ↔ Greek
“Word of God” ↔ “God” ↔ “The Word”
“Word of God”(86) = (אלהים](86] = [ο λογος](86)th Prime Hō Lōgôs
YHVH(63) = ĔL-ō-Hêêm(63) = The Bible(63)
Spirit of God(117) = (117)יהוה האלהים = Bible Truth(117)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEdJ
You make an opinion and then throw around a few numbers as if somehow that makes your opinion legit.
But your post doesn't cut it with those who study the word. We require at least scripture, and it is also helpful to show the workings of clear thinking as to how you landed on your opinion. You have done neither.Also, Hebrew characters doesn't make your post authoritative either. It is not about appearances, but substance.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2010,02:39) T8………We to can come to the (FULL) Measure of Jesus also as scripture says. That is the purpose pf GOD , to bring us (ALL) tho that (FULL) Measure that is in Christ Jesus. This is our Hope in GOD. But you separate Jesus from our (exact) idenity by you false teaching of Preexistence. IMO peace and love………………………….gene
Only in your own head Gene.I certainly separate Jesus from me as a different person, but believe and teach that we can be like him.
Pre-existence has nothing to do with that point.
If Jesus emptied himself and came in the flesh, then he had the same start as us in that respect.
I get the feeling that you are making these points with the hope that one will stick. You need to think about what you say before you say it.
all
you can not help carnal views , the people who do not received God spirit of understanding will never see ,
and will always arguing about words,numbers or other carnal action and interests.Pierre
T8……..You argument is with scripture not me.
Eph 4:13…..> Till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of GOD, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
That pretty well sums it up. And T8 you do more then separated Jesus as a different Person, you separate him as a different KIND of Being, a preexistent Angle or demigod who preexisted and created everything himself and had all these preexisting advantages over us and some how you believe He dumped all of that and morphed himself into a human being, and passed himself off a truly one of Us, Your beliefs is not difference then Trinitarians only you just say He was not a GOD . Being truthful you have made Jesus your GOD, rather you realize it or not. In “Your HEAD” He is not a fellow Human Being to YOU, who GOD the Father has (PERFECTED) and Placed over us from the HUMAN RACE, but a demigod rather you realize it or not. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2010,20:42) T8……..You argument is with scripture not me. Eph 4:13…..> Till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of GOD, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
That pretty well sums it up. And T8 you do more then separated Jesus as a different Person, you separate him as a different KIND of Being, a preexistent Angle or demigod who preexisted and created everything himself and had all these preexisting advantages over us and some how you believe He dumped all of that and morphed himself into a human being, and passed himself off a truly one of Us, Your beliefs is not difference then Trinitarians only you just say He was not a GOD . Being truthful you have made Jesus your GOD, rather you realize it or not. In “Your HEAD” He is not a fellow Human Being to YOU, who GOD the Father has (PERFECTED) and Placed over us from the HUMAN RACE, but a demigod rather you realize it or not. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
What is the son of God to you gene?EDj………These people can't even realize that if JOHN meant to say Jesus in John 1 He would have simply written Jesus' name there. That is all they can do is force the text to meet their own dogmas.
Back to what a word is I maintain a Word (IS) Simply and (INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE) and is the exact representation of the PERSON WHO SPOKE THEM. They are on and the Same. IMOpeace and love………………………………………gene
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