A new creation not an old in jesus the anointed

Participant

Scripture states about the old creation:

Galatians 4:3(NIV) reads:

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So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world.

1 John 5:19(NIV) reads:

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We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Colossians 2:20(NIV) reads:

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Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:

Ephesians 2:2(NIV) reads:

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in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

About the new creation it states:

2 Corinthians 5:17-19(NIV) reads:

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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Hebrews 2:5(NIV) reads:

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It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

1 John 2:2(NIV) reads:

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He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 reads:

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And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Revelations 11:15(NIV) reads:

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The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelations 13:8(NIV) reads:

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All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

February 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm#174896

Participant

Romans 5:12-21(NIV) reads:

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Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here once more is a contrast between the old covenant of which Adam is the first human being and the new covenant of which Jesus is the first human being.

I also find it interesting that Adam is called a pattern for Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23(NIV) reads:

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But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Here we are once more told the same thing.

And last one of Paul’s hard to understand passages.

1 Corinthians 15:45(NIV) reads:

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So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Is Paul referring to Jesus? If so then he obvious is not making the point that Jesus was a Spirit as we know Jesus was and is a living being.

February 1, 2010 at 3:53 pm#174916

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Kerwin………..Good POSTS Brother. Those who have the SPIRIT or SEED of GOD (IN) Them are the Sons of the Living GOD (NOW)> WE are not of the world or its rule, but of GOD and (HIS) Rule. We are all ruled by the SPIRIT (intellects) in us rather of the WORLD of GOD. “FOR (greater) is HE that is in you then He that is in the WORLD”. We all need to think about those Posts more. IMO

February 2, 2010 at 6:38 am#175086

Participant

PS 52:1 Why do you boast in evil, O mighty man?
The lovingkindness of God endures all day long.
PS 52:2 Your tongue devises destruction,
Like a sharp razor, O worker of deceit.
PS 52:3 You love evil more than good,
Falsehood more than speaking what is right. Selah.
PS 52:4 You love all words that devour,
O deceitful tongue.
PS 52:5
But God will break you down forever;

truth and understanding is required in Gods word trough the hearth

February 3, 2010 at 8:38 am#175360

Participant

I am going to compare two scriptures and point out what conclude from that comparison.

Colossians 1:17(NIV) reads:

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He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

compared to:

2 Corinthians 5:17 reads:

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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come

We see from these that all things are in the Anointed One. We also can see it is obviously not speaking of the first creation for if it was what need to enter Christ once more.

In fact Hebrews 6:6 instructs us that if we are in the Anointed One and then fall away to be brought back again we a crucifying Jesus once more.

Hebrews 6:6 reads:

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if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

February 3, 2010 at 9:16 am#175370

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2010,19:38)

I am going to compare two scriptures and point out what conclude from that comparison.

Colossians 1:17(NIV) reads:

Quote

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

compared to:

2 Corinthians 5:17 reads:

Quote

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come

Hi Kerwin,

Your analogy starts with a Major flaw…
Col.1:17 refers to “GOD The Father” while 2Cor.5:17 refers to Christ.

February 3, 2010 at 9:16 am#175371

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2010,19:38)

I am going to compare two scriptures and point out what conclude from that comparison.

Colossians 1:17(NIV) reads:

Quote

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

compared to:

2 Corinthians 5:17 reads:

Quote

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come

1) We see from these that all things are in the Anointed One.

2) We also can see it is obviously not speaking of the first creation for if it was what need to enter Christ once more.

Hi Kerwin,

1) Explain how you see that?

2) What is not speaking of the first creation? Explain this as well?

Ed J

February 3, 2010 at 9:17 am#175372

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2010,19:38)

In fact Hebrews 6:6 instructs us that if we are in the Anointed One and then fall away to be brought back again we a crucifying Jesus once more.

Hebrews 6:6 reads:

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if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hi Kerwin,

That's something that sure needs to be avoided; huh?

God bless
Ed J

February 3, 2010 at 9:46 am#175379

Participant

Ed J wrote:

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Col.1:17 refers to “GOD The Father” while 2Cor.5:17 refers to Christ.

Could you show your reasoning? I concluded Colossians 1:17 refers to Jesus as he is the firstborn of a new creation and Colossians mention a creation previously.

Ed J wrote:

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Explain how you see that?

Both scripture speak of being in the Anointed One.

Ed J wrote:

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What is not speaking of the first creation? Explain this as well?

I tried to explain that already sin both scripture speak of being in Jesus and it is only after being immersed that we are in the Anointed One.

Ed J wrote:

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That's something that sure needs to be avoided; huh?

In this case I was using as support for believers entering the Anointed at immersion and not before.

February 3, 2010 at 11:28 am#175385

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2010,20:46)

Ed J wrote:

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Col.1:17 refers to “GOD The Father” while 2Cor.5:17 refers to Christ.

Could you show your reasoning? I concluded Colossians 1:17 refers to Jesus

Hi Kerwin,

In English we have “the subject” and “the object”.
In Colossians “the subject” is mentioned in verse 12,
which is “GOD The Father”, while Jesus is the object.
I will insert words into the text for you.

Col.1:12-22 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light(with Jesus, his Son):
13: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness(satan the great 'i am'),
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14: In whom we have redemption through his (Jesus=74)[God blood=74], even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who is the image of the invisible God(The Father: still the subject from verse 12), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(GOD The Father) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they
be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him(GOD The Father), and for him(GOD The Father):
17: And he(GOD The Father) is before all things, and by him(GOD The Father) all things consist.
18: And he(GOD The Father) is the head of the body(the body is Jesus), the church(we are the body of Christ):
who(Jesus) is the beginning, (and)the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he(GOD The Father) might have the preeminence.
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fullness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus=74) “cross”=74, by him(GOD The Father) to reconcile all things
unto himself(GOD The Father); by him(GOD The Father), I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21: And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your ('i am' polluted) mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22: In the body of his(Jesus) flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Let's examine verse 16 a little closer…
Look at what is being said here and you can see for a certainty it CANNOT be talking about Jesus!

16: For by him were ALL THINGS created, that are (1)in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
(2)whether they be thrones, (3)or dominions, (4)or principalities, (5)or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(1) Jesus could NOT have created his own Father!
(2) Jesus could NOT have created his father's throne!
(3) Jesus could NOT have created his father's dominion!
(4) Jesus could NOT have created his own principality!
(5) Jesus could NOT have created his father's powers!

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 3, 2010 at 12:04 pm#175387

Participant

edj

you are wrong about your explanation for ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together

it is Jesus he talked about

February 3, 2010 at 3:55 pm#175421

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2010,22:28)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2010,20:46)

Ed J wrote:

Quote

Col.1:17 refers to “GOD The Father” while 2Cor.5:17 refers to Christ.

Could you show your reasoning? I concluded Colossians 1:17 refers to Jesus

Hi Kerwin,

Let's examine verse 16 a little closer…
Look at what is being said here and you can see for a certainty it CANNOT be talking about Jesus!

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED J………..Excellent post, you are right on on this one brother. IMO, GOD the FATHER is the (ONLY) CREATOR of (ALL) THINGS including Jesus. Jesus said 'FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD, when are people going to believe this. GOD the Father said there were (NO) other GODS besides HIM and that He (ALONE and BY HIMSELF) CREATED The world and everything in it.

Good Post ED J……………….peace and love………….gene

February 4, 2010 at 7:14 am#175621

Participant

Let us return to Colossian 1:17 after being diverted over whether it speaks of God or of Jesus. I will go on under the conclusion it speaks of the Anointed One.

Colossians states that the Anointed One was before all things but is it referring to the first creation or the new creation that is in Jesus. We have previously pointed out both creations cannot be in Jesus as we would then be crucifying him twice by being immersed. Rather we are told that Adam is the first man, which is to say the first fruits, of the old creation while Jesus is the first fruits of the new creation. Romans 5:12-21

Romans 8:29(NIV) reads:

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For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

And

Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads:

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And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

And

Revelations 1:5(NIV) reads:

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Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

So when Colossians 1:15 states “he is the firstborn over all of creation” it seems plain that it means the new creation. We also know that Jesus was made Lord of everything in heaven and on earth after his resurrection and in this way is over all things. Matthew 28:18

February 4, 2010 at 9:57 am#175643

gollamudi

Participant

This is where the Unitarians fail to give right interpretations of scriptures. I have read many of such non-trinitarian books but they could not give me proper interpretation of col 1:12-17. They always say that the creation referred in verse 15 is the new creation. Where from this idea has come? Paul or the writer of Col never meant that way. Infact it was referring to the Genesis creation itself. Trinitarians believe that it was the Genesis creation. But they believe Jesus was not the first creation of God but he became first in rank(preeminence) of every thing God created. See for yourself in 1 Cor 8:6-8. Jesus was also involved in every thing God created. Therefore I differ with non-trinitarians in this regard. There are many other issues including the interpretation of Holy Spirit where non-trinitarians did blunders in interpreting scriptures.

Please think over
Adam

February 4, 2010 at 10:09 am#175647

Participant

goll

that verse is referring to people who come to be accepting the son of God as there savior,and recognize by that that he was send by God for that purpose.

because those people have change they behavior and practice what God want them to do ,this in why they become like a new CREATION because they have left the old and are reborn into a new personality

this is the right interpretation of Col;1-12-17

February 4, 2010 at 10:20 am#175651

gollamudi

Participant

Is it ? I never understood that way.

February 4, 2010 at 10:55 am#175656

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 04 2010,16:20)

Is it ? I never understood that way.

Have you been following my reasoning from the beginning?

February 4, 2010 at 11:32 am#175659

gollamudi

Participant

I meant you people are misunderstood.

February 4, 2010 at 12:52 pm#175665

Participant

goll

yes it is ,read from the begining and only read what is there ad nothing remove nothing ,it is that simple

February 4, 2010 at 12:59 pm#175666