A false view of matthew 4:4?

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2014,00:42)

MIke B.

Maybe this will work.

God has a mind;and his words came out of His mind.
His Word is the result of His thinking.
God and his mind are one. Can not be seperated.

So then Jesus IS actually God Almighty Himself?

YES or NO?

(Btw, Jesus has a DIFFERENT mind and a DIFFERENT will than his Father's. So your analogy is unscriptural.)

January 9, 2014 at 4:12 am#366793

Blocked

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 08 2014,06:02)

He had tried the straight out direct answer, but it's a little complicated, so it goes on and on,
and I jump in to help out too……….

Well, jump in more often, journey.

When I'm discussing this stuff with YOU, things are being answered. Things are getting LEARNED.

Not so much with Wakeup.

So if YOU can explain HIS thoughts better than the not-so-good job he's been doing, I'm all for it.

January 9, 2014 at 6:00 am#366798

Participant

mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]
Ok Mike, I'll jump in.

Quote

So then Jesus IS actually God Almighty Himself?

YES or NO?

A definate NO

Quote

(Btw, Jesus has a DIFFERENT mind and a DIFFERENT will than his Father's. So your analogy is unscriptural.)

Mike,

Yes and No.
Jesus will is to do the will of his Father.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus spoke everything that his Father told him to speak, when preaching the truth, but there was also times when he spoke on his own…”Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”

Jesus WAS the WORD of GOD when he was in heaven.
NOT THE WORD OF GOD WAS JESUS.
Because Jesus did not exist then.
Can you understand this?
Take your time and think about it before you blow up!

January 9, 2014 at 6:02 am#366799

Participant

The man Jesus only existed when he was born, when the Word changed into flesh.
First there was one, (just God), then there were two.
God and his Son.
God did not halve himself, or empty himself,
for God is whole.
Jesus had his Fathers chromosone.
He was really his son.

January 9, 2014 at 6:05 am#366800

Participant

Mike,

Can you please talk nicer to Wakeup if you are a real brother.
It doesn't bother him, but it bothers me.
Remember how Peter cut off the soldiers ear who captured Christ?
Well I feel like Peter sometimes when you guys talk down to Wakeup. He's has been very patient trying to explain this.
Please, for the love of the truth.

January 9, 2014 at 6:34 am#366802

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,16:05)

Mike,

Joueney.

The more they feel cornered,
the more agitated they get.You can tell when they get to feeling insecure,they start picking up stones.
That is the sign of weakness.
Their whole foundation has been shaken,and they
dont like that a bit.

wakeup.

January 9, 2014 at 5:36 pm#366825

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,11:34)

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,16:05)

Mike,

Joueney.

wakeup.

I ALMOST CRYING OF LAUGHING, :laugh:

January 10, 2014 at 12:18 am#366846

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,14:08)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2014,00:42)

MIke B.

Maybe this will work.

God has a mind;and his words came out of His mind.
His Word is the result of His thinking.
God and his mind are one. Can not be seperated.

So then Jesus IS actually God Almighty Himself?

YES or NO?

(Btw, Jesus has a DIFFERENT mind and a DIFFERENT will than his Father's. So your analogy is unscriptural.)

MikeB.

I leave that question for you to answer.

1.Are you in charge of your thinking?
2.Now who is telling who,who is in control of who?
3.Are you and your mind one,or two seperate existence?
4.Do you speak out your mind,or your mind does as he
pleases?

wakeup.

January 10, 2014 at 1:35 am#366853

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,10:36)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,11:34)

wakeup.

I ALMOST CRYING OF LAUGHING, :laugh:

I'm with Pierre on that one, Wakeup. YOU are the one getting “cornered” with your inconsistent and unscriptural claims.

We're the ones doing the cornering.

And the “sign of weakness” is the fact that you simply cannot, or will not, DIRECTLY answer the questions I have concerning the things you are trying to preach.

ANYTIME someone on this site avoids giving a DIRECT answer to simple questions, the rest of us here already KNOW it is because he either can't answer the question…… or won't answer it because he has a feeling what the follow-up question is going to be – and where the discussion is headed from that point on.

In other words, people with WEAK, UNSCRIPTURAL, or NONSENSICAL doctrines are the ones who refuse to give DIRECT answers to simple questions about those doctrines.

I, on the other hand, will give a DIRECT answer to ANY question about my scriptural beliefs, and I'll even throw in the scriptures that support that belief for free.

Now, I'm not sure why journey asked me to speak nicer to you – because I can't remember speaking MEAN to you. And I'm not aware of any “stone” that I've thrown your way.

Think of me as a reporter on 60 Minutes or something. I don't have to like OR dislike you, because all I'm trying to do is get to the bottom of the controversy in the most direct way I can. (For the record, I DO like you Wakeup.)

All I want is DIRECT answers. And since JOURNEY is the only one who gave DIRECT answers to the questions I've been asking you and asking you, I will try to continue this discussion with HER – and perhaps just leave you out of it.

Don't take offense to that. It's just that I've been getting NOWHERE with YOU. So I can either go through journey to solve some of the many contradictions and mysteries in your doctrine – or we can just drop the whole thing.

I've seen your most recent “answer” to my DIRECT question, Wakeup……. and it's not an ANSWER at all.

When you are ready again to give DIRECT answers to my questions, you and I can continue. Until that time, there is no need for us to carry on with this discussion – because we've been getting NOWHERE for a LONG TIME.

peace and love to you,
mike

January 10, 2014 at 2:06 am#366854

Blocked

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 08 2014,23:00)

Ok Mike, I'll jump in.

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

So then Jesus IS actually God Almighty Himself?

YES or NO?

A definate NO

Agreed! And thank you for that DIRECT answer, journey. Unfortunately, that answer leaves more questions. I'll start with just one.

Since Jesus was NOT God Almighty on earth, and since the Greek word “proskuneo” means “worshiped” AS WELL AS “did obeisance”, is it more sensible that the disciples, knowing Jesus was NOT God Almighty, “worshiped” him as if he was God? Or that they “did obeisance (paid homage)” to him as their Lord and King, and a high-ranking servant OF God?

Which one, please?

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 08 2014,23:00)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

(Btw, Jesus has a DIFFERENT mind and a DIFFERENT will than his Father's. So your analogy is unscriptural.)

Mike,

Yes and No.
Jesus will is to do the will of his Father.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

I see the scriptures that support the “YES” part. But which scripture tells us that Jesus and his God had the SAME mind and will? Where are the scriptures that support the “NO” part of your answer?

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 08 2014,23:00)

Jesus WAS the WORD of GOD when he was in heaven.
NOT THE WORD OF GOD WAS JESUS.

Again, thanks for being DIRECT and UNDERSTANDABLE. Unfortunately, those answers will once again lead to other questions.

1. How do you KNOW that “Jesus” wasn't his name BEFORE he was born of Mary? Which scripture tells us that?

Because there are plenty of them that tell us that “JESUS” is the one who came down from heaven, and that “JESUS” is the one through whom God created all things, and that “JESUS” is the firstborn of every creature and the beginning of the creation by God, etc.

2. You say that Jesus was the Word of God. Did he ever stop being the Word of God…….. like when he was on earth as God's Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb?

In other words, when Jesus was NOT God Almighty Himself, was he still the Word of God?

I have many more questions, but I don't want to bog you down all at once.

Please keep answering the questions directly, journey. It is quite refreshing for a change.

January 10, 2014 at 2:13 am#366855

Participant

Mike b.

Why dont you answer those I have just posted to you?
Why the silence?

1.Are you in control of your mind,or your mind in control of you?

2.Do you speak your mind.

3.Are you and your mind one?

4.Does your words come from inside your Mind?

5.What is the name of your word?

Please let us know what your mind is saying.

wakeup.

January 10, 2014 at 2:52 am#366867

Blocked

Wakeup,

1. Tough to say. It is my mind that decides whether or not I will get up in the morning and walk to my car and drive to work. So is my mind controlling my body? And who exactly is “ME”? Isn't “ME” a combination of my mind, body, spirit, and soul?

2. Yes, I METAPHORICALLY speak my mind. It is an idiom that means “say what you are thinking”.

3. I'd say my mind is a part of the whole “ME”.

4. Usually. I guess sometimes I speak straight from the heart, without involving my mind and thinking it out before I say it. A Christian comedian once said, “Sometimes my words come out before they get sanctified.”

5. “My word” is a figurative way of referring to my wordS – as in plural. For example, the saying, “A man is only as good as his word” doesn't refer to just ONE word. It is a figurative way of saying a man who actually DOES what he SAYS he's going to do is a good man. If his actions follow up on the wordS (plural) that he spoke, then he is an okay guy.

But neither my figurative “word” nor my literal “wordS” are people, and therefore have no proper name.

Now listen Wakeup, I'm not about to get all bogged down in a bunch of quasi-psychedelic philosophical mumble jumble. None of that crap is NEEDED to discuss the SIMPLE points I've been asking about the Word of God.

If you are unable or unwilling to answer my direct questions with DIRECT answers, then let me just continue this discussion with journey. I assume you both believe the same things anyway, right?

January 10, 2014 at 3:21 am#366873

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,12:52)

Wakeup,

2. Yes, I METAPHORICALLY speak my mind. It is an idiom that means “say what you are thinking”.

3. I'd say my mind is a part of the whole “ME”.

But neither my figurative “word” nor my literal “wordS” are people, and therefore have no proper name.

If you are unable or unwilling to answer my direct questions with DIRECT answers, then let me just continue this discussion with journey. I assume you both believe the same things anyway, right?

MIkeb.

Why do you say its all mumble jumble?

When it is fact.
You and your mind is one.
Your word always obeys you.
Your word can not perform by itself.
Your word has no name,but its called the word of Mike.
Or Mike's word.

I hope this answers the question.
God and his Word is one.
His name is Jesus, *WHEN* he was made a human being.

wakeup.

January 10, 2014 at 4:21 am#366883

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,20:21)

I hope this answers the question.
God and his Word is one.
His name is Jesus, *WHEN* he was made a human being.

Not at all, Wakeup. But don't worry about it. I'll get to the bottom of it with journey.

January 10, 2014 at 4:42 am#366887

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,14:21)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,20:21)

I hope this answers the question.
God and his Word is one.
His name is Jesus, *WHEN* he was made a human being.

Not at all, Wakeup. But don't worry about it. I'll get to the bottom of it with journey.

Mikeb.

State your reasons.
Why not at all?

wakeup.

January 10, 2014 at 4:58 am#366888

Participant

mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Which one, please?

Hi Mike,

You cannot correct us through the GREEK. Whether that definition is right or wrong, this is your first mistake and we cannot understand things of the spirit through MEN. You are going through MEN to God to gain understanding. This is your stumbling block. You have been given a measure of understanding, but the full truth is being withheld from you. You will say blah blah blah, just answer the question Journey, but the spirit in me speaks to the spirit in you brother.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The pharisees and the Jews judged Jesus for not washing his hands before he ate, You are doing the same, your washing of the hands is going to the greek, the so called experts. You are concentrating on the outside of the book, and not the inside.

Because of your stumbling block, you fail to realise the relationship between the Father and the Son. So a simple answer cannot be given to you.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

Jesus came preaching the FATHER. Jesus came to give light. God said, “behold my Son, hear ye him” We know Jesus is the WORD OF GOD. He said my Father and I are One.
You can't have one without the other Mike. If you worship God, you worship Jesus. If you worship Jesus, you worship God. They both go hand in hand together. If you are in trouble you can also call on the name of Jesus, he will hear.

There is the flesh Jesus who the world know, who died on the cross for our sins.
The world know this Jesus, as the son of God, a man.
This is how we first heard. Simple and true,
and then when we reach full maturity,
we learn it gets deeper than that.
There is the Jesus who was not only flesh, but he is the Word of God also.
THIS IS THE MYSTERY.
The spiritual side to Jesus who came out of the Father. THE WORD OF GOD.
We can only come to God through HIS WORD, and not another's word.
The Word of God which is now more powerful than flesh and directly connected to God.
It's God's will, his laws, his ways, his righteousness, his holiness, every thing he spoke and recorded for us in PRINT so we can learn and know him.
And it's in print so we can use as evidence, as a witness, to correct or rebuke.
We are not saved just because he died,
but his death opened the door to MERCY, and through that mercy we are given the opportunity to know him and change our ways to his ways, which are God's ways.

If they worshiped Jesus, they glorified him. They are not breaking the commandment of God. We are not to glorify any other but God, but God said this is ok, you can do it, he's my Son and I give him charge over you and all the angels, so worship him, you do not sin. He is ordained by God, his exact image. God called him God. He's acting on God's behalf. They are one in SPIRIT.

So, when someone who just finds out about the Lord comes and prays to Jesus for help or forgiveness, it' ok, for God sent him. When he matures he will pray to the Father through Christ, he will gain more understanding and he has not sinned.

So you will come back and say “answer the question journey, obeisance is worship, just giving honor”, and I will say no Mike, you really are allowed to worship Jesus, read the scriptures, because God said so and allows it too for those coming in to the kingdom, babes, and preparation for the Millennium when Christ is publicly crowned king of kings, and lord of lords. When all the glory and honour will be his.

January 10, 2014 at 5:21 am#366889

terraricca

Participant

j42

Quote

and you believe that you are now empowered over all others

your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said that wakeup and you are blood related ,

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context

your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV

now i am almost sure you would do that

January 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm#366908

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,15:21)

j42

Quote

and you believe that you are now empowered over all others

your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said that wakeup and you are blood related ,

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context

your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV

now i am almost sure you would do that

Quote

and you believe that you are now empowered over all others

You are making up things to make j42 look like
claiming power over others. Distasteful.
This is proof; and shows, the spirit that is in you is
dishonest and wicked indeed. I also can see jealousy at work.

wakeup.

January 10, 2014 at 5:49 pm#366918