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To all,
It sure sounds like some individuals here are stating God changes. I assure you that is not so. What God wanted of his people yesterday he still wants today.
The prophet Ezekiel tells us that God will forgive those who change their ways and do all that is righteous. That is true under the old covenant and it is still true under the new covenant. The difference is that under the old testament you could not be walk according to the ways of the Spirit because it was not given to the students of Jesus until after he ascended to heaven.
As I stated God does not change but now we have the spirit to accomplish what God commands of us and so have no need for the blood of animals.
That is what Jesus has accomplished for us just as he stated he would.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2009,08:42) To all, It sure sounds like some individuals here are stating God changes. I assure you that is not so. What God wanted of his people yesterday he still wants today.
The prophet Ezekiel tells us that God will forgive those who change their ways and do all that is righteous. That is true under the old covenant and it is still true under the new covenant. The difference is that under the old testament you could not be walk according to the ways of the Spirit because it was not given to the students of Jesus until after he ascended to heaven.
As I stated God does not change but now we have the spirit to accomplish what God commands of us and so have no need for the blood of animals.
That is what Jesus has accomplished for us just as he stated he would.
i have not flip flooped.jesus is the way, thats the bible not me saying that.
i've said that the ten has not ben abolished and that jesus magnified it and more to it is added, as you state the spiritual requirement.
its through jesus we follow now, his life was the showing of us how to do god's will, not just a written law,
jesus is the new covenant for his blood sanctified us all.
the covenant is new l. and our way is through jesus. you cannot accept jesus for what the bible tells.
your just not wanting to accept christ for all he is and did. thats your problem. trying to twist or imply what the bible says,
is also your problem.it first was all about following the ten commandments as to if you were doing god's will. however today the new covenant is with jesus and we need to do what he has instructed also.
you fail to recognize that and only care about the first handful of books in the bible. if you didn't you would listen to the scriptures pointing this out. i know banana and others and myself have posted up scriptures.
the god of isreal is what the pharoahs and all others new him buy. moses was given commandments for them to live by, and also to teach God's will(law).
when jesus came he showed exactly how to do that specifically not just words written down. but he also taught us more!
our covenant with christ is a preaching work and is not centered on the10 laws only.
new commandments – preach the good news, love one another, believe in jesus.
so we are now guided by christ ,not the10 commandments
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
if you deny or ignore anything about jesus you are not believing in him.
love is so important that it should be our driving force.
Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 13 2009,13:29) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 14 2009,08:27) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 13 2009,09:23) See what I mean Kerwin, banana is parroting and peace2all is flipflopping again. It's hard to talk to her cause she keeps talking both sides of the fence.
so banana shows you scriptures that tell you the truth, that makes them a parrot?you use your own personal outcomes to scriptures and not god's message. WHAT THAT MAKE YOU?
if you have a guide that shows you a way, then tht guide is replaced with a new one are you under that first guide even though the things told by the first guide is used?nope you'd be under the new guide since the old was replaced.
'Elohim changes?Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 12 2009,09:47) Quote (banana @ Dec. 13 2009,04:00) To all! We are not under the Old Covenant in Exodus 34:27-28
“Then the LORD said to Moses,”Write these words for according to the tenor of these words I have made a Covenant WITH YOU AND WITH Israel.”
VERSE 28 “SO He WAS THERE WITH THE lord FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS;HE NEITHER ATE BREAD OR DRANK WATER, and He WROTE ON THE TABLETS THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.The key here is that it is Covenant that God made with Israel. Now we are under the new Covenant in
Luke 22:20 …”This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.”Then Jesus gives us the Great Commandment in
Math. 22:37 Jesus said to him” You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”
verse 38
“This is the first and great commandment.”
verse 39
“And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 :On these two commandments hang all of the Law and the Prophets.”The Sabbath was never a commandment that God gave to us Gentiles, it is
Exodus 31:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.”
verse 17
“It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever……
We are first under the new covenant and then in
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through Faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Walk in the Spirit of God and you will not sin, and if we do sin, we have a Mediator Jesus Christ, so we can go to the Throne of God and ask for the forgiveness of our sins.
The older we get the easier it becomes to walk in the Spirit of God. Flesh is still flesh and we can't get away from that and if we think we don't sin, John tells us that the truth is not in us. Does that sound confusing? Not to me.
Irene
banana they don't care what we show them, they don't believe and will add their own view and opinons instead of accepting the bible's message.so many answers to questions in hte bible are very clear and easy to understand. also it wil be shown in many verses to make it even more clear that that is what it is. if its a resinant message and it fits all verses and pertains to teh topic in hand , then theres yuor answer. no need to try to come to a different conclusion.
if you don't accept god's words completely how can you love and serve him by not adhereing to him to the fullest, as what is required.
Do you accept 'Elohims word completely and in perfect truth, and serve him, while adherring to the fullest as required?i can accomplish my goal knowing my master has also been a servant (Ner Elohim) loving ELohim Lord Almighty, creator of all that breath, vibrate , illuminate.
knowing this i can detach the fetters of fault that bind me from doing Elah's true purpose.
there is no guessing who is who, and who is what. remove your he/him/his from this place and let known who is your God?
Quote The Old and New Covenants – The Two Covenants 'Elohim once wrote his laws to His children on cold stone tablets but now He writes His laws in them.
'Elohim gives us understanding to know and to believe His laws; He gives us memories to retain them; He gives us hearts to love them, courage to profess them and power to put them in practice.
The foundation of the New Covenant and when this is laid, our duty will be done wisely, sincerely, readily, easily, resolutely, constantly and with comfort for those who truly love Him.
Old Testament that Covenants made with 'Elohim were traditionally ratified with the blood of an animal sacrifice. Genesis 15:8-18; Exodus 24:1-8
We also find in the New Testament that the New Covenant was also ratified with sacrificial blood.
Hebrews 10:29 calls the blood of Yeshua HaMoshiach the “blood of the [new] covenant,” which sanctified us and so has made us holy.
Yeshua HaMoshiach mentioned the New Covenant during his last meal with his disciples.
The cup of wine represented “the new covenant in my blood.”
Luke 22:20The blood of Yeshua HaMoshiach, which is the blood of the New Covenant, was poured out for us at His crucifixion and ratified the New Covenant.
Most Christians have accepted the idea that the Old Testament encompasses the dispensation of works and that the New Testament provides for a dispensation of grace.
Under this garbled plan, people were saved by works in the Old Testament and by grace in the New Testament.
Does this make sense?
The Bible presents only one perfect plan for anybody to be saved and that is by grace through faith.
Will Heaven be divided between those who got there by works and those who got there by faith?
Every single soul will be a sinner saved by grace.
Those who entered into salvation in the Old Testament were those who trusted the merits of the blood of Yeshua HaMoshiach, and they demonstrated their faith by bringing a lamb and slaying it.
This looked forward in faith to the atoning, sacrificial death of Yeshua HaMoshiach.
We look back in faith to the very same sacrificial death and are saved in exactly the same way.
Those redeemed in heaven will be singing the same song of deliverance and exalting the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world.
This is grossly misunderstood and typical finds scriptures quoted out of context, if any are quoted at all, and is usually followed by ones personal thoughts and ideas.
You will find the Old and New Covenants explained plainly and simply using predominantly scripture and without ones personal thoughts but with just plain, simple Biblical truth.
Quote What was included in the Old Covenant? Keeping this very plain and simple, the Old Covenant had the Law of Moses (Handwritten Ordinances), which was written in a book by his own hand and the Ten Commandments, which were written in stone by the very finger of 'Elohim Himself.
The Law of Moses is also called the “Book of the Covenant” or “Book of the Law,” “Mosaic Law,” “Ordinances” and the “Ceremonial Law” etc.
The Ten Commandments is also called the “Two tablets of the Testimony,” “Moral Law” and the “Decalogue” etc.
The Law of Moses was stored in the side of the Ark of the Covenant and was a temporary law that was nailed to the cross as it was practised because of sin until Yeshua HaMoshiach came and took the place of this Law.
Deuteronomy 31:24-26 “And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the SIDE of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your 'Elohim, that it may be there for a witness against you.”
The Ten Commandments were stored on the inside of the Ark of the Covenant under the mercy seat and is eternal in nature and was NOT nailed to the cross as breaking this Law is sin.
Exodus 34:28 “And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables [stone] the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.”
Deuteronomy 10:5 “And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables IN the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.”
Quote What was included in the New Covenant? The ordinances (Law of Moses) and the Ten Commandments are two separate laws.
The verse (Luke 1:6) is before the cross and the second verse (Hebrews 9:1) is after the cross.
Luke 1:6 “And they were both righteous before 'Elohim, walking in all the Commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”
Hebrews 9:1 “Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.”
Now that Yeshua HaMoshiach has become our sacrificial Lamb and ended the worldly sacrificial sanctuary system, the New Covenant does not have or need the ordinances and now has only the Ten Commandment Covenant as observed in the above verse, which 'Elohim now writes in our hearts and minds.
Quote What does the Old Testament say about the New Covenant? The Old Testament always informs us through the prophets what changes are coming in the future as stated by the following scripture.
Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord 'Elohim will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
Here is what we are told about the New Covenant through Jeremiah the prophet.
Jeremiah 31:33 “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their 'Elohim, and they shall be my people.”
Many are quick to point out that the Old Covenant was made with ISRAEL in an attempt to abolish the Ten Commandments.
This is heresy that is easily abolished!
Who was the New Covenant made with?
Quote What does the New Testament say about the New Covenant? Here is the fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:33 in regards to the New Covenant.
It is astonishing how many people miss who the New Covenant was made with.
Hebrews 8:6-10 “But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day whe
n I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a 'Elohim, and they shall be to me a people:”So what about the Gentiles?
Today there is the Israel of 'Elohim (Galatians 6:16) and the Israel after the flesh (1 Corinthians 10:18).
The Israel of the flesh are those that are Jews by birth.
The Israel of 'Elohim is anyone who belongs to Yeshua HaMoshiach and is under the New Covenant.
There are many Christians who do not understand that if we are Yeshua HaMoshiach's then we are spiritual Jews and the Israel of 'Elohim.
The New Covenant was also ONLY made with ISRAEL.
If one rejects this truth then they cannot be under the New Covenant.
Note carefully the following scriptures:
Romans 2:28-29 “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of 'Elohim.”
Romans 9:6-8 “Not as though the word of 'Elohim has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of 'Elohim: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Galatians 3:28-29 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Yeshua HaMoshiach. And if you be Yeshua HaMoshiach's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
When the Jews rejected 'Elohim's message from Stephen (Acts 6:8-7:60) and stoned him, the following statement became fact.
He is not a Jew which is one outwardly, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly and so if we are 'Elohim's children then we are Abraham's seed and therefore children of Israel and heirs according to the promise.
Daniel 70 weeks or 70 weeks of Daniel has the proof.
The Bible tells us that Yeshua HaMoshiach came as the Mediator of a New Covenant Hebrews 8:6.
The teaching that the New Covenant abolishes the Ten Commandments reflects a gross misunderstanding of both Covenants.
'Elohim tells us that He altered the original Covenant and made “a better covenant, which was established upon better promises” Hebrews 8:6.
But you will note that nothing is said about it being established on different laws.
The law stayed the same.
There was however a weakness or fault in the original Covenant.
That fault was with the people, NOT with the law.
“For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” Hebrews 8:8.
It was “because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.” Hebrews 8:9.
With the Old Covenant, 'Elohim wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone.
It was external and not part of the thinking and motives of the people.
It was in their literature but NOT in their hearts.
With the New Covenant, 'Elohim writes His law “into their minds, and writes them in their hearts” so it will be our hearts desire to obey His law. Hebrews 8:10.
To enable people to internalise His law, to love it and obey it eagerly and willingly, 'Elohim makes this promise, Ezekiel 36:26-27 “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
Besides that fact that the New Covenant no longer has or needs the Law of Moses, where does the New Covenant say it is based on New Laws?
As you can see, it does not.
What was the problem with the Old Covenant?
'Elohim says it was the people because they did not obey it.
The problem was not with the Old Covenant Law but with the people themselves.
The Ten Commandments are to last as long as heaven and earth just as Yeshua HaMoshiach stated in Matthew chapter five.
Matthew 5:17-19.
Do we keep the Ten Commandments in the same way as Israel?
Not quite.
The Bible explains clearly that it is now not enough.
We now keep the Ten Commandments the way Yeshua HaMoshiach explained in Matthew 5:17-48.
We now find that Yeshua HaMoshiach has magnified the law just as prophesied in Isaiah 42:21 and informs us that we are not only to obey the Ten Commandments but we are now to teach them also.
The law did not change but it was magnified.
Example: From You shall not commit adultery to whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. No change to the law but it is magnified.
Quote How does the New Covenant relate to Law and Grace Under the Old Covenant, when an Israelite sinned, they had to obey the sacrificial Law of Moses to make reconciliation for their sin.
Under the New Covenant, we no longer need obey this old law as Yeshua HaMoshiach became our one and final perfect sacrifice.
So what do we do now when we sin?
It is now far more simple.
No longer do we need bring a sacrificial lamb to the temple priest and shed its blood.
Under the New Covenant today, we repent of our sin and believe by faith in Yeshua HaMoshiach's redeeming sacrifice that we are forgiven and by 'elohim's grace we are.
'Elohim's grace is His unmerited, undeserved favour that we receive when we repent of our sin, which is breaking the Ten Commandments.
1 John 3:4.
'Elohim's grace is a privilege we have as a result of our Lord and Saviour's sacrifice on the cross and is not a license to continue in sin.
If there were no Ten Commandment law we would have no need for 'Elohim's grace.
'Elohim's grace is preceded by the act of genuine repentance of our sin. Romans 6:1-2 and Romans 6:14-15.
Hi CON,
Of course it is not the negative ten commandments written of the hearts of reborn men but the positive reverse polarity.Con……….You have properly stated it, if only more could understand this. GOD (CREATES) RIGHT HEARTS, WE ARE A NEW CREATION, CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS. But men love self praise and seek their own righteousness, apart from the WORKS of GOD.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2009,18:27) Hi CON,
Of course it is not the negative ten commandments written of the hearts of reborn men but the positive reverse polarity.
When were the “Ten Commandments” ever negative?1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for 'elohim's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
Not one of those even remotely appears in a negative context, unless one is a sinner who practices iniquity, might be negative to him.
hi ron
Love as boundries, if you dont have any you will die,if you have Godly love you will live,
those are two boundries no???????
negatif means never,notTo all! It amazes me when you put up what Covenant we are under some of you still insist that we are under the Old Covenant, which we are not. Jesus magnified the Law and made it Holy. It is not the letter of the Law that we keep, it is written in our Hearts. Our thinking plays a big role in the New Covenant. And when you love someone you don't do any of the commandments. Also in
Exodus 31:16-17 tells us that the Sabbath was a Covenant that God made with the children of Israel and not with us Gentiles. And if you want to keep the Old you are to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:1-6
If we walk in the Spirit we do not sin. Is it easy, no. John also tells us if we think we are not sinners the truth is not in us. But because of Jesus Sacrifice sin is not imputed to us. Some might say that we don't have to ask for the forgiveness of our Sins, but that I do not agree with. It is not automatic.
With God's Holy Spirit we don't sin willfully. We are still in the flesh and flesh does Sin. Paul gives us a good example when He says:” I do what I am not to do, and don't do what I am to do.”
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 14 2009,23:59) Hi CON,
DO NOT is negative. It offers only boundaries.
Love is not. It offers motivation.
You should read the Law of Mosses as you are both both commanded to love your neighbor as yourself and also not to hate him. You can call the first a positive command and the second a negative one but they both are different ways of stating the same thing in my book. God gives us the spirit of Love but he also gives us the spirit not to hate.We should be careful to avoid arguments over wording though wording except when that wording becomes deceptive.
Hi KW,
The jewish ten commandments are under discussion.
Given to the Jews because grace was yet to be given to enable the law of love to be lived.Nick………I thought it was (YOUR) so-called FREE WILL CHOICES, that caused you to be enabled to keep GOD'S Commandments through the operation of FEAR. Interesting you seem to change to what ever meets you theologies at the moment. Now it is all about GRACE of GOD right. Grace of GOD and His CREATING US right, and self Works and self obedience through the medium of FEAR and (NOT) Compatible. You need to either chose one or the other which is it. Scripture says “we are saved by GRACE and that (NOT) of ourselves, Not by WORKS of LAW least ANY Should Boast”. Which side of the fence are you (REALLY) ON?
gene
To All ………..One thing we need to all remember the commandments (ARE) the HEART of GOD, Expressed to US. GOD CREATES (HIS) Heart in US in order for Us to walk LIKE HE DOES> It is A CREATION OF GOD (ALONE) THAT CREATES RIGHTEOUSNESS. ALL WHO DENY THIS ARE THIEVES AND ARE TRYING TO STEAL GLORY TO THEMSELVES, OR HAVE BEEN DUPED INTO BELIEVING LIES TAUGHT BY FEAR MONGERS WHO ARE COMPLETELY (FAITHLESS) and are only (SELF RELIANT) PEOPLE , posing as real Christians. The KEY is to remember WE ARE (SAVED) BY THE GRACE (God's influencing on the heart), he changes us by taking out the (STONY HEARTS) we are born with and Replaces them With HEARTS of FLESH (soft and loving Heart). TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS A (CREATION OF GOD) ONLY. Many profess GOD and Christ but can not let go of themselves and are still in bondage by their own WILLS.
peace and love to all the Israel of GOD………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2009,03:19) Hi KW,
The jewish ten commandments are under discussion.
Given to the Jews because grace was yet to be given to enable the law of love to be lived.
The Ten Commandments are merely a part of the Law of Mosses that God spoke out loud to the people of Israel. The later became frightened and begged that he would use Mosses as an intercessor for the rest. That does not make them any less important than the first ten.You have to discuss the whole law when you are discussing a part since context is important.
There should be a debate about the Sabbath day and if and how it is a moral requirement. I do not believe that the rest of the Ten are even debatable as far as being moral requirements. If you are disobeying them then you are not walking according to the ways of the Spirit. There are also moral requirement not mentioned in the Ten.
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