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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2009,14:41) Hi CON,
The schoolmaster is only relevant now for bringing Jews to Christ and as educational material for others.
Let go of that hand and take responsibility in a deeper way.What is Paul's purpose for inserting the schoolmaster in his teachings? Why does he warn his students that those who commit these acts are worthy of death?
Romans 1:28-32(KJV) reads:
Quote And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
hi all
no one force them (the wickets) to do what they want it is by there free will (choice) that they choose to do what is against the will of God.
it is also the free will of the ones who do not like the wicket ways because they understand that it does not produce any reward wort to look for,and realize that Gods will is the way to go to obtain rightfully the reward of live according to Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2009,23:10) Hi KW,
God meets carnal men where they are.
Your answer is rather vague. I believe that as for this particular case we are given the answer to my question with the words “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”In other words the restrictions serve as a sign post to tell you that if you have transgressed then you have crossed over the line and turn back before it is too late.
Jesus teaches us that the Holy Spirit is a schoolteacher when he tells us that it will “teach us all things”.
I also agree the law is our schoolteacher for we are taught that all Scripture is good for rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.
christ is the way now.
the ten was the way from moses. it was do these things or else. even if they did not commit sin in gods eye they still had the sin of adam.
jesus came and taking away the sin of adam by ransom and god forgiving man for it and his blood cleansed us.his ressurection gave us hope too.
we need to follow christs example and show our dedication to god by baptism and live rightous.
our eternal life in gods kingdom rely on following christs example and show our dedivcation to god almighty with baptism.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2009,23:14) Who here does not understand that those who walk according to the Spirit truly love their neighbor as themselves and so keep the law? Is there anyone who disagrees with that statement?
If so please speak up and say why you disagree.
If not then you must realize that in loving your neighbor as yourself that you do all that has ever commanded his people to do.
kerwin If you mean the Old Testament Law I disagree with you. If you mean the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, then I agree. He gave us the great Commandment in
Math. 22:37-40
It is the same then the 10 Commandments except the Sabbath day. It is a sign between God and the children of Israel and was never for us Christians.
Exodus 31:16-17Jesus also magnified the Law. We don't life by the letter of the Law but the Spirit meaning that if you hate your brother you have commited murder in your heart.
This is not the first time that I have written this down. I have given you and others Scriptures to prove what I belief in.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (peace2all @ Dec. 18 2009,17:13) christ is the way now. the ten was the way from moses. it was do these things or else. even if they did not commit sin in gods eye they still had the sin of adam.
jesus came and taking away the sin of adam by ransom and god forgiving man for it and his blood cleansed us.his ressurection gave us hope too.
we need to follow christs example and show our dedication to god by baptism and live rightous.
our eternal life in gods kingdom rely on following christs example and show our dedivcation to god almighty with baptism.
Quote the ten was the way from moses. The Law Existed Before Sinai (MOSES)
The law existed in heaven and was first challenged and broken by Lucifer. (Ps 103:20, Eze 28:13-17 compare 1Jn 3:8)
Some examples of pre-Sinai knowledge of the law (Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30)
Every sin committed is a violation of G-d's law. (Ro 4:15, 1Jn 3:4)
Some examples of pre-Sinai sin and knowledge of sin (Ge 4:7, Ge 18:20, Ge 39:9)
1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for G-d's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
The Law Was Formalized at Sinai
1. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Ex 20:3)
2. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy G-d am a jealous G-d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.” (Ex 20:4-6)
3. “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy G-d in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.” (Ex 20:7)
4. “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy G-d: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” (Ex 20:8-11)
5. “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy G-d giveth thee.” (Ex 20:12)
6. “Thou shalt not kill.” (Ex 20:13)
7. “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” (Ex 20:14)
8. “Thou shalt not steal.” (Ex 20:15)
9. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” (Ex 20:16)
10. “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.” (Ex 20:17)
The Law was Repeated in the New Testament
1. Do not have other gods (Mt 4:10)
2. Do not have idols (Ac 17:29, 1Jn 5:21)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (1Ti 6:1)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Mk 2:27,28, Lk 4:16)
5. Honor your parents (Mt 19:19)
6. Do not kill (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)
7. Do not commit adultery (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)
8. Do not steal (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)
10. Do not covet (Ro 7:7, Ro 13:9)
The Law was Amplified in the New Testament
The law is focused around love. (Mt 22:36-40 compare Lev 19:18 and Dt 6:5)
Commandments 1-4 define our relationship of love to G-d.
Commandments 5-10 define our relationship of love to other people.
Lust is adultery. (Mt 5:27,28, 2Pe 2:14,15)
Hate is murder. (Mt 5:21,22, 1Jn 3:15)
Fornication, uncleaness, covetousness, and other lusts are idolatry. (Col 3:5 compare Ro 7:7)
The Law is Perfect and Cannot be Changed
The law is perfect. (Ps 19:7, Jas 1:25 compare Jas 2:11,12)
The law is eternal. (Ps 111:7,8, Ps 119:143,144,152 compare Ex 25:16,21, Ps 119:160 compare Lev 26:46)
The law is unchangeable. (Dt 4:2, Ps 89:34, Mt 5:17-20 (context Mt 5:21,27,38, compare Heb 4:15), Lk 16:17 (context Lk 16:18))
If the law could be changed, Jesus would not have had to die for us. (Ro 4:25, 1Pe 2:24)
The Law is the Written Revelation of G-d's Character
Delivered directly by G-d to the people
Spoken by G-d (Ex 20:1-19, Dt 4:12,13, Dt 5:23-27)
The only part of the Bible written directly by G-d's own finger (Ex 24:12, Ex 31:18)
Other laws delivered indirectly to the people through Moses (Ex 34:30-32)
G-d refers to it as the Testimony (i.e., His Testimony). (Ex 25:21,22)
Placed the Testimony in the ark of the Testimony in the Most Holy Place (Ex 40:20,21 compare Heb 9:4, Rev 15:5)
Other (ceremonial) laws placed beside the ark (Dt 31:26)
The law reveals G-d's holiness and righteousness. (Ps 119:172, Ro 7:12)
The law reveals G-d's love. (Mt 22:37-40, Ro 13:8-10) (compare 1Jn 4:8)
The law reveals G-d's truth. (Ps 119:142,151) (compare Jn 14:6)
The Law Leads Us to Yeshua Hamoshiach, Who is the Living Revelation of G-d's Character
We are Not Made Righteous by Keeping the Law
A mirror cannot clean us.
Our works do not make us righteous (Isa 64:6, Jn 15:1-5, Ac 13:38,39, Ro 3:20,27,28, Ro 4:1-5, Ro 9:30-32, Ro 11:5,6, Gal 2:15,16,20,21, Gal 3:11, Gal 5:4)
Note: A “legalist” is a person who believes his good works make him righteous.
The Sabbath rest from works symbolizes righteousness by faith. (Heb 4:4-6,9-11)
The Plan of Salvation Has Always Been the Same
Faith in Yeshua Hamoshiach has always been the only means of salvation. (Heb 10:3-5, Heb 11:1-40 note verses 39,40)
In the old testament, the sacrificial system pointed forward to Yeshua Hamoshiach. (Ge 4:3-5, Ge 22:10-13, Heb 11:4)
In the new testament, we look backward to the finished work of our Saviour.
The blood of Yeshua Hamoshiach is the soap that cleanses us from all sin. (1Jn 1:7, Rev 7:14)
We are saved through grace, by genuine faith in Yeshua Hamoshiach. We are not saved by works. (Hab 2:4, Ro 4:13,17, Eph 2:8,9)
Grace – “The free unmerited love and favor of G-d.” (Webster's Dictionary 1828) (emphasis supplied
Grace was active in the old testament. (Ge 6:8, Ex 33:12, Ps 84:11, Zec 4:6,7)
The gospel was preached in the old testament. (2Ch 6:41, Eze 36:26-29, Jn 5:39, Jn 8:56, Ro 3:21,22, Heb 3:16,17 then Heb 4:2)
Enoch, the seventh from Adam prophesied about the Lord's coming. (Jude 1:14,15)
David prophesied about the Son of G-d. (Ps 2:7 compare Ac 13:33)
G-d does not change. (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8, Jas 1:17)
We Keep the Law Because we Love G-d
Our obedience and our works are a natural result of genuine faith in Yeshua Hamoshiach and love for G-d. (Ps 119:97-104, Jn 14:15,21, 1Jn 5:3)
The presence
of works is evidence that our faith is genuine, that Yeshua Hamoshiach lives in and through us. (Jas 2:17,20,22,26)Yeshua Hamoshiach is the source; we are the branches; our works are the fruit. (Jn 15:1-5)
It is not through our own power that we keep the law.
Yeshua Hamoshiach (living through us) enables us to keep the law. (2Co 5:21, Gal 2:20, Gal 5:16,22-25)
The law is written on our heart. (Ps 37:30,31, Ps 40:8, Jer 31:33, Eze 11:19,20, Eze 36:26,27, Mt 15:1-3,7-9, Ro 2:14,15, Heb 8:10 compare 2Co 3:3, Heb 10:16)
Love is the Essence of the Law
Love is the essence of the law. (Dt 6:4,5, Lev 19:18, Mt 7:12, Mt 22:35-40, see also Mk 12:28-31, Mt 23:23,24, Ro 13:8-10, 1Jn 5:2, 2Jn 1:5,6 (compare Jn 13:34)
G-d Expects Obedience to His Law
G-d expects obedience to His law. (Dt 5:32, Pr 28:4,9, Isa 24:5,6, Jer 7:8-10, Ecc 12:13, Hos 4:6, Mal 4:3-5, Mt 28:19,20, Jn 14:15,21,23, Jn 15:10,14, Ro 2:13, Ro 7:21-25, Ro 8:7,8, 1Co 7:19, Heb 5:8,9, 1Jn 3:4-10, Rev 22:14)
Grace did not abolish the law. (Ro 3:31, Ro 6:1,2,14,15, Ro 8:3,4, Jude 1:4)
The law is not obsolete. (Isa 42:21, Mt 7:21, Heb 8:10, 1Jn 2:3-6)
Yeshua Hamoshiach kept the law perfectly. (Jn 15:10, Heb 4:15)
The wicked are characterized by lawlessness. (Da 7:25, 2Th 2:3,8,9, 2Pe 2:7,8)
In the last days, G-d's faithful remnant people keep His law. (Rev 12:17, Rev 14:12)
We are blessed by keeping the law. (Dt 6:24, Ps 19:8, Pr 3:1,2, Pr 29:18, Isa 48:18)
There are no small sins. (Jas 2:10)
The fall of man and the curse of the earth resulted from one act of disobedience. (Ge 3:17-19, Ro 5:17-19)
Yeshua Hamoshiach died on the cross because of our sins, which are the breaking of the law. (Ro 4:25)
Imagine what the world would be like if everyone obeyed all the commandments.
The commandments are protecting walls, each commandment is indispensable.
Satan's widespread deceptions concerning G-d's law:
Satan tells us:
“You need not obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So take it off your list of priorities.”
Satan tells us:
“You cannot obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So stop feeling guilty about habitual sin.”
Satan tells us:
“You should not obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So keep away from all teachings that uplift G-d's law.”
We should keep G-d's law more and more, rather than less and less.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,13:49) Imagine what the world would be like if everyone obeyed all the commandments.
The commandments are protecting walls, each commandment is indispensable.
Satan's widespread deceptions concerning G-d's law:
Satan tells us:
“You need not obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So take it off your list of priorities.”
Satan tells us:
“You cannot obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So stop feeling guilty about habitual sin.”
Satan tells us:
“You should not obey G-d's law.”
The implication being:
“So keep away from all teachings that uplift G-d's law.”
We should keep G-d's law more and more, rather than less and less.
Hi Con,People really need to understand “The Truth” of your post here.
Good Job, Ron, well said.
Amen.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene @ Dec. 17 2009,14:32) 942767……..Grace is (GOD'S INFLUENCING ON THE HEART) GOD'S commandments are an expression of GOD'S HEART, they are eternal and never will be done away with. There should never be a question if we should keep them , the question is (HOW WE KEEP THEM) is it through the Works of LAW or how law works (forced compliance ) or the OPERATION of GOD which Creates in us the way to keep His commandments. No one will be in the kingdom of GOD believing GOD'S commandments are done away with. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Hi Gene:We have already covered this before, but there is no forced compliance. The Law is enforced and that is true, but the children of God are in right standing with God through faith both those who were under the Law of Moses and those of us who are in the body of Christ. They and we obey God because we believe.
But under the OT the blood of animals that was offered for the atonement of sin did not wash away the sin but was symbolic of the true sacrifice which washes away or sins when we repent never to be remembered by God again. In the OT, there was remembrance of the same sins year after year on the day of atonement when the High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies with blood for his own sins and for the sins of the nation of Israel.
In the NT, there will also be a day of judgment. The scripture states that judgment will begin at the house of God.
Love in Christ,
MartyIrene wrote:
Quote kerwin If you mean the Old Testament Law I disagree with you. If you mean the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, then I agree.
I was speaking both as they are not different as far as the moral code is concerned. The difference comes with the Spirit as one could not walk according to the Spirit until Jesus asked for it and it was sent by God so long ago at Pentecost.
Irene wrote:
Quote It is the same then the 10 Commandments except the Sabbath day. It is a sign between God and the children of Israel and was never for us Christians.
You are correct that the Sabbath day is a holiday for the children of Israel but it is also an act of love to a people who needed some time off from their toils. If you are a workaholic then you are living according to the spirit of this world and not the spirit of God.
Irene wrote:
Quote Jesus also magnified the Law.
I assume you mean glorified and enlarging in size seem not to fit as well. I am not sure I would use that word though Jesus has been glorified by God. I use “fulfilled” because it is through obeying Jesus’ teachings that we can walk according to the ways of the Spirit and when you do that you do all the Law requires.
Irene wrote:
Quote We don't life by the letter of the Law but the Spirit meaning that if you hate your brother you have committed murder in your heart.
I agree that the spirit is all important but we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and thus misunderstand the spirit.
942767…………Not sure of your point , because i believe what you wrote . Except I believe that the Judgment is (NOW) being carried out on the HOUSE of GOD. “knowing this Fiery Trial that has tried you as if some strange then has happened unto you”. IMO
The 613 commandments are contained within the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments are contained within The two great commandments (Love HaShem and neighbor as self).
This is why Yeshua said that all of the Torah hangs upon those two commandments.
ashermos………….Yes i agree the two great commandments are what carries the complete the total of all the commandments, even as a hinge of a door carries the door. , because they two great commandments are about LOVE for neighbor and for GOD, and we are told LOVE FULFILLS ALL THE LAW, “For all the law is fulfilled by one word , you shall love your neighbor as yourself”. If we do that we are keeping the commandments all of them. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 12 2010,03:18) ashermos………….Yes i agree the two great commandments are what carries the complete the total of all the commandments, even as a hinge of a door carries the door. , because they two great commandments are about LOVE for neighbor and for GOD, and we are told LOVE FULFILLS ALL THE LAW, “For all the law is fulfilled by one word , you shall love your neighbor as yourself”. If we do that we are keeping the commandments all of them. IMO
Every commandment is G-d instruction on how to love Him and our neighbor as self. That is what it means that the whole of the Law is love.Ashermoshe………….I agree , but they (ONLY) can be kept through the SPIRIT of GOD in Us, (the LOVE of GOD shed abroad in our hearts). We must be (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS) we can not create our selves unto good works, it must be a act of GOD, through GRACE (God's influencing on the heart). GOD by his spirit (causes) us to desire to do good works and perform them.
Therefore it is the Fruit of the SPIRIT that is produced in our lives. And of course the Spirit is not against the commandments of GOD , but fulfills them all. The problem is (WHOSE DOING THE WORK) IS IT OF THE FLESH OR OF THE SPIRIT. Many reject GOD by trying to establish themselves by their (OWN) Works and only have a form of righteousness, a outward appearance, like white washed Sepulchers but inward are full of dead mens bones. We need to all focus of the reasons we do the WILL of GOD is it because of FEAR or trying to be self righteous, is what we do based on the self , or is it based on the heart of love for GOD and MAN. LOVE fulfills the LAW. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 15 2010,02:51) Quote Ashermoshe………….I agree , but they (ONLY) can be kept through the SPIRIT of GOD in Us, (the LOVE of GOD shed abroad in our hearts). We must be (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS) we can not create our selves unto good works, it must be a act of GOD, through GRACE (God's influencing on the heart). GOD by his spirit (causes) us to desire to do good works and perform them. Shalom.
That is what Judaism taught all along. That the Spirit comes first, then the Action.
Good works are what should follow after Faith and Spirit, without good works faith and spirit means nothing at all.
So, yes.
Quote Therefore it is the Fruit of the SPIRIT that is produced in our lives. And of course the Spirit is not against the commandments of GOD , but fulfills them all. The problem is (WHOSE DOING THE WORK) IS IT OF THE FLESH OR OF THE SPIRIT. Many reject GOD by trying to establish themselves by their (OWN) Works and only have a form of righteousness, a outward appearance, like white washed Sepulchers but inward are full of dead mens bones. We need to all focus of the reasons we do the WILL of GOD is it because of FEAR or trying to be self righteous, is what we do based on the self , or is it based on the heart of love for GOD and MAN. LOVE fulfills the LAW. IMO The Spirit of the Torah is Chasidut, the deepest level of Torah. So it was always taught that the Spirit comes first before Action. Most people I know that observe, understand and believe this.
Outwardly observance is only real when it starts inwardly. That is what Judaism has taught all along. Yeshua was just highlighting that fact along with the Apostles.
You are right in that Love fulfills the Law, however, G-d gave us the instructions on how to love in order to fulfill the Law.
I think we're getting there on the same page.
hi gene
I tink you do not know what is the spirit of God or of Christ,the way you talk it seems you beleive in the trinity and believe that the Spirit of Christ and God are being .
………….I agree , but they (ONLY) can be kept through the SPIRIT of GOD in Us
could you explain your comment?
?? like through and in US
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