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- March 13, 2010 at 11:42 pm#183325NickHassanParticipant
Hi Jodi,
So the old perishable tent of Jesus miraculously did not perish.
Thus the promise shown about the messiah in Acts 2 was fulfilled by this miracle.
We do not expect the same miracle as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and we are given a new rainmentMarch 14, 2010 at 1:16 am#183333GeneBalthropParticipantNick……….Flesh and Blood by it self can not inherit the kingdom of GOD, But Flesh plus Spirit in it can, Our Souls can inherit the kingdom of GOD, Nothing Physical inherits anything it self. Why do you thinks it says fear Him who can destory (BOTH) (two things) In the GRAVE. The body, and spirit separated from it. Equals a destroyed being or (SOUL). Adam and Eve could have lived eternally the way they were created if they had not sinned. Why do you think GOD said to remove them from the Garden of Eden where the Tree of Life was, it was because they could have taken of it and lived for every and not died, as GOD Said they could have. Jesus has the Body he was raised with, only it is eternally alive and can never again die. His corruptible flesh put on incorruptible flesh Jesus is a MAN and Has a BODY. He plainly said that.
When are you going to start believing what is written Nick.
peace and love………………..gene
March 14, 2010 at 11:17 am#183390kerwinParticipantTerraricca,
I thought Paul was boasting about “a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. ” after all he also stated “I will boast about a man like that…” but you seem to believe I am mistaken.
The third heaven in one of seven according to the Jews of which Paul was one. He was quite familiar with the tenets associated with it while you are obviously not. I am sure his Jewish listeners were also familiar. I am not so sure of the Gentiles but assuming that the people in the church communicated as they are supposed they most likely knew the background as well.
Even Christianity knows something of the seven heavens but scripture does not go into any detail about them. We gave simply forgotten our roots though I doubt it is overly important to the message of gospel.
The Neo-Platoism, that such as you have adopted, though is a denial of the resurrection as a soul without flesh is a ghost and thus not a resurrected individual. That is my concern.
March 14, 2010 at 11:43 pm#183456NickHassanParticipantGB,
Flesh plus spirit=soul?
We are body soul and spirit so it seems you are muddled again.[1Thess 5.23]March 14, 2010 at 11:47 pm#183459NickHassanParticipantHi KW,
Are you offering Jewish mysticism as some sort of alternative foundation?
We seek to be raised clothed in Christ and not naked.
Ps 49 2cor5.3March 15, 2010 at 9:08 am#183516kerwinParticipantQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,06:47) Hi KW,
Are you offering Jewish mysticism as some sort of alternative foundation?
We seek to be raised clothed in Christ and not naked.
Ps 49 2cor5.3
Christianity is a mystic Jewish tradition which is rather obvious from reading scripture. The Jews at one time may have been more fond of mysticism than they are today. Jesus was definitely esoteric in his lessons which was one reason he spoke in parables. Matthew 13:34 He did speak plainly on occasion but that was more the exception than the rule, John 16:29.There is different kinds of mysticism and some, if not most of it, is garbage.
March 15, 2010 at 9:09 am#183518kerwinParticipantQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,06:43) GB,
Flesh plus spirit=soul?
We are body soul and spirit so it seems you are muddled again.[1Thess 5.23]
I agree with you Nick.March 15, 2010 at 12:10 pm#183523ElizabethParticipantQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,11:43) GB,
Flesh plus spirit=soul?
We are body soul and spirit so it seems you are muddled again.[1Thess 5.23]
NickYou body IS your soul, your spirit has to develop as your brain grows.
Georg
March 15, 2010 at 2:08 pm#183529kerwinParticipantQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,19:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,11:43) GB,
Flesh plus spirit=soul?
We are body soul and spirit so it seems you are muddled again.[1Thess 5.23]
NickYou body IS your soul, your spirit has to develop as your brain grows.
Georg
Psalms 31:9 and Psalms 63:1 are two scriptures that treats them as separate elements of a human being.March 15, 2010 at 6:32 pm#183537NickHassanParticipantQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 16 2010,00:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,11:43) GB,
Flesh plus spirit=soul?
We are body soul and spirit so it seems you are muddled again.[1Thess 5.23]
NickYou body IS your soul, your spirit has to develop as your brain grows.
Georg
Hi georg,
Really?
Scripture says that a body without a spirit is dead [Jas2]
so are healthy infants actually dead or only partly dead?You body is your soul? So when the body rots so does the soul?
March 15, 2010 at 6:52 pm#183541NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
Duplicated posts are deleted.March 15, 2010 at 7:25 pm#183546Jodi LeeParticipantSo at NO time can part of one post be put on another thread?
That's weird. I have seen you take a post from one thread, of mine even, and post it's entire content on another.
I have duplicated part of a post BEFORE and sometimes a whole post, and they have never been deleted before, could you explain why it is done so now? When did this apparently NEW rule begin?
March 15, 2010 at 7:41 pm#183547NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
It has happened before.
It is difficult enough to keep on subject without additions from other unrelated threads too.March 15, 2010 at 8:05 pm#183552Jodi LeeParticipantWell, I happen to believe with great conviction that it is fitting to the thread that I started, so I will just add to it and redue it a little if that is how you want to play it!
You have a lot of work on your hands if you are truly concerned about policing posts and deleting the ones you personally find off topic.
The pre-existence thread which is about the very identity of Jesus, HAS NOTHING TO DO, IN YOUR MIND, WITH 1 Corinthians 15:50/ Paul's teaching about inheriting eternal life? …huh, that's interesting.
March 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm#183554NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
Interesting.
We are to follow the man from heaven.
He will return in his new and imperishable body and those who are raised in the first resurrection will be like to him.March 15, 2010 at 8:46 pm#183557NickHassanParticipantQuote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 16 2010,08:05) Well, I happen to believe with great conviction that it is fitting to the thread that I started, so I will just add to it and redue it a little if that is how you want to play it! You have a lot of work on your hands if you are truly concerned about policing posts and deleting the ones you personally find off topic.
The pre-existence thread which is about the very identity of Jesus, HAS NOTHING TO DO, IN YOUR MIND, WITH 1 Corinthians 15:50/ Paul's teaching about inheriting eternal life? …huh, that's interesting.
Hi Jodi,
Yes you could do that.
But would you be happy with how it reflects on you?March 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm#183656Jodi LeeParticipantQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2010,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2010,14:37) Jodi Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
the arm of God is Christ.
t,I am glad you brought up this scripture. The Psalm says that “blessed is the man who puts his trust in the Son. Therefore, the Son is more than a mere man. Otherwise we would be “cursed” for trusting in Him
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. Psalm 2:12How can we be “blessed” for trusting in the Son if He were not God?
thinker
Here is another scripture for you TT.2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Nowhere is it said that it is against Christ to think of him as not being the One True God. We are told directly however that to say he is NOT Flesh is antichrist.
Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
All that Jesus accomplished was done not because he was God, but because he was a MAN of whom God was with having laid his Spirit within him.
We can certainly TRUST in a MAN whom God lays His Spirit upon.
March 16, 2010 at 5:38 pm#183673Worshipping JesusParticipantQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2010,19:15) Nowhere is it said that it is against Christ to think of him as not being the One True God. We are told directly however that to say he is NOT Flesh is antichrist.
JodiThis is a half truth and as Jack says a half truth is a lie.
Nowhere does the scriptures say that Jesus is “Only flesh”.
It says…
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ “ COME IN THE FLESH is of God“: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is “COME IN THE FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2, 3
John is clearly saying that Jesus the “Word of life” that was with the Father (John 1:1 and 1 John 1:1-3) has come in the flesh (John 1:14) and every Spirit that denys this is antichrist!
Blessings WJ
March 16, 2010 at 5:43 pm#183674Jodi LeeParticipantHebrews 7:26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah– 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Ezekiel 11:19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
The following are ALL TRUE statements.
The Christ who has come to us in the FLESH and was raised with FLESH, is an Eternal King of the seed of David. He has been spoken as being perfected through suffering, and this perfection came through the Spirit of God that was in Jesus giving him strength over his weak flesh. This strength through God's Spirit allowed Jesus who was tempted in every way as we are, to condemn sin in the flesh.
Scripture says that the New Covenant is in God putting His laws in the minds of man causing them to be His people. We see clearly that this is what God did for Jesus, and this is exactly why we are told that he is the mediator of a New Covenant, for he is the image of God's New Covenant. The Old Covenant, the Law, only proved weakness, however the New Covenant, the giving of God's Spirit to cause man to walk perfectly in God's statutes, IS SEEN through the MAN Jesus, and therefore if we believe in Jesus we have FAITH in the ONE True God the Father, knowing that we are promised to be heirs with Jesus, because He has given us that promise.
As Jesus BECAME perfected, we too shall be perfected. This perfection created in the MAN Jesus, is an Eternal Perfection. This perfection was NOT a perfection to last only between the time Jesus rose and the time he ascended, but for ALL ETERNITY!!
To declare that Jesus WENT back to the perfection he had before the world was as some other sort of creature and to state we will be like that creature is PURE antichrist doctrine.
What do we know of this creature? How was this spirit being son of God perfected that we might be made like he was? Also, if we are to become like the Jesus made before creation, then WHY all this human being business, why not just make us how He made him before time began?
SERIOUSLY people the doctrine of pre-existence is PURE and UTTER Garbage IMO.
The perfection done in the MAN Jesus was not done just to fulfill a promise from the OT, and then Jesus would go back into what he was before. The promise itself was made because that was the whole point of what God wanted to accomplish since before time began, create a heavenly MAN, a creature created by God that could exist in the image of Himself, having His righteous character.
Jesus HAS BEEN perfected forever!! NEVER WAS he PERFECTED BEFORE. And it is because of THAT perfection that Jesus sits at the right hand of God, and it is because of THAT perfection he is head over all of creation having been the younger now SET BEFORE all others having received all the rights of firstborn.
He was MADE master and Christ, he did not exist as such before and GO BACK to that position. That POSITION Of Christ and Master CAME out of what God accomplished in the human man Jesus.
March 16, 2010 at 6:08 pm#183675Jodi LeeParticipantQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 17 2010,05:38) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2010,19:15) Nowhere is it said that it is against Christ to think of him as not being the One True God. We are told directly however that to say he is NOT Flesh is antichrist.
JodiThis is a half truth and as Jack says a half truth is a lie.
Nowhere does the scriptures say that Jesus is “Only flesh”.
It says…
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ “ COME IN THE FLESH is of God“: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is “COME IN THE FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2, 3
John is clearly saying that Jesus the “Word of life” that was with the Father (John 1:1 and 1 John 1:1-3) has come in the flesh (John 1:14) and every Spirit that denys this is antichrist!
Blessings WJ
WJ,This is truly absurd. The whole point of the verse about antichrist was to rid deceivers who were saying he was something more.
People watched the MAN die, he was obviously seen as a man of flesh, after all, blood pored out of his body. The FLESH was obvious, it was rumors about him being something else that needed to be laid to rest. Pagans being converted not knowing the OT and the promises could have and would have easily seen the rising of Jesus as Jesus must being a god, but the TRUTH is that which ROSE FROM the DEAD was Jesus IN THE FLESH. Christ is savior through dying and rising on the cross, this savior came having been risen in FLESH, for the PROMISE you seem to want to IGNORE WJ, is that the Father spoke to the prophet David promising that his seed would not see corruption but become an eternal king.
He was FLESH PERIOD.
Luke 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
Jesus was NOT a spirit, he was raised a MAN of FLESH.
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