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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 13 2010,16:23) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote He was raised up in the tent he was born into.
That seems to contradict the teaching of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:42 which clearly states that during the resurrection of the dead the body is sown corruptible and raised incorruptible. The transformation from the corruptible to the incorruptible obviously happens before the person is resurrected from the dead but after they are dead. In Jesus’ case the change happened before his corruptible body saw decay but after it perished.
Hi KW,
The resurrection of the dead promised in scripture does not include the raising up of Jesus.That had already occurred.
Nick………What bible are you reading , If you think Jesus is not included in the resurrection of the DEAD, you are sadly mistaking my friend. Jesus is our exact same HOPE WE HAVE, in the EXACT same Manor. The only difference is His (BODY) did not corrupt or decay because he did not sin and the only his body died in the first place is because He took on OUR SINS. But non the less it was a BODY that was RAISED from the GRAVE, not a SPIRIT of Some kind as some think. Jesus yelled His Spirit to GOD when He died and recieved It back into an immortal body when he was resurrected, and this is OUR HOPE ALSO. THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.
Nick why do you find this so hard to understand?
peace and love…………….gene
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2010,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2010,14:37) Jodi Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
the arm of God is Christ.
t,I am glad you brought up this scripture. The Psalm says that “blessed is the man who puts his trust in the Son. Therefore, the Son is more than a mere man. Otherwise we would be “cursed” for trusting in Him
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. Psalm 2:12How can we be “blessed” for trusting in the Son if He were not God?
thinker
THIS is PURE ANTICHRIST!Notice the point of the following scripture has NOTHING to do with believing he is NOT man, but it has EVERYTHING to do with BELIEVING he is FLESH!
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
Notice it does NOT say that every spirit needs to confess that GOD has come to us in the flesh, but that Jesus has come in the flesh.
Matthew 1:21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
The human child born of Mary HIS NAME was JESUS (prior to this there did not exist a God who's name was Jesus, there only existed a promise of a man coming who would be Jesus). We are to believe that Jesus was in FACT FLESH. We are to believe that he is God's representative and is a human Mediator.
TT, does MAN ever mean something more than MAN?
This is a person speaking AFTER Jesus rose from the dead-
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
The MAN is the mediator but according to you we should have NO TRUST IN him?
Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors–not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Jeremiah 17:5 Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the Lord.
We are not to trust in the man that is following after his flesh. But we certainly can trust in the MAN who has been appointed by God and is being led after His Spirit.
TT your lack of understanding is truly amazing. You are saying that according to Jeremiah Jesus must have been God for us to be led by him? So when we are told that we need to believe he was flesh, how do you explain that? As well, aren't you saying then that if we are never to trust in any man then why did the Israelites follow Moses out of the wilderness? The scriptures were written by MEN, shall we not trust in those. Should the people not have listened or trusted in anything that Paul spoke? Good grief, your reasoning skills are truly baffling to me, I think you need to further explain.
Acts 13:38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Hi TT,
How can we be blessed for trusting in the Son if he were not God?How far will foolish logic take you?
Jn14.1
GB,
Is the mortal body he died in now become a tattered but immortal one??
No the old is not transformed into the new but new is put over the old.
You do not believe in the promise of a NEW and imperishable body?Nick…….I certainly do believe in a New and imperishable (BODY). I just do not believe we will has a Spirit without a body, that is what you believe, it appears. Jesus plainly said his resurrected Body was (NOT) a SPIRIT. Because a Spirit does not have Flesh and BONES. That is not to say the Spirit was Not (IN) that Body He had. Your and many others confusion, is thinking a SPIRIT (ITSELF) Is some KIND of BODY, it is NOT. A spirit is what animates a BODY. A Soul (IS) a BODY + SPIRIT In it. If you could come to see that Nick it would clarify much to you and others IMO. All things are animate by the Spirits that are (IN) them NICK.
peace and love……………………gene
Acts 2:29 `Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day; 30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne, 31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
God Promised David, according to the flesh Christ would be raised up, and Jesus was raised in fact without his flesh not having seen corruption.
Romans 6:9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
Jesus rose up with his flesh not seeing corruption, and IN that flesh death no longer has dominion over him, he can no longer die.
We all know that there exists NO scripture that speaks of another resurrection of Jesus, or Jesus being changed into some other sort of creature sometime after he rose from the dead, and neither are we of course given an explanation as to why that would even need to be necessary.
Paul teaches us that to inherit the kingdom of God we cannot rely on our own flesh, we need His Spirit. This is a perfect understanding to 1 Corinthians 15:50, and knowing that Jesus was resurrected having his flesh not see corruption and that Jesus said himself, AFTER he was raised to be flesh and bones, we see scripture show us that it is a body of incorruptible flesh that God has planned to dwell in His Kingdom.
Hi Jodi,
Yes Jesus did speak of another raising up for himself.
His being LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH
Jn3.14
Jn12.32Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2010,23:57) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 13 2010,16:23) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote He was raised up in the tent he was born into.
That seems to contradict the teaching of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:42 which clearly states that during the resurrection of the dead the body is sown corruptible and raised incorruptible. The transformation from the corruptible to the incorruptible obviously happens before the person is resurrected from the dead but after they are dead. In Jesus’ case the change happened before his corruptible body saw decay but after it perished.
Hi KW,
The resurrection of the dead promised in scripture does not include the raising up of Jesus.That had already occurred.
I am going to say that 1 Corinthians 15 disagrees with you as it reads:1 Corinthians 15:12-20(KJV) reads:
Quote Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,08:19) Hi Jodi,
Yes Jesus did speak of another raising up for himself.
His being LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH
Jn3.14
Jn12.32I have asked for scripture showing of another resurrection or for where it says Jesus received some other sort of body after being raised having his flesh not see corruption, or where it says he received no body at all… whichever one of the following it is you people believe.
The two scriptures you gave Nick show none of the above.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Numbers 21:9So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
the Son of MAN being lifted up is speaking of Jesus on the cross.
Are you trying to tell us that when Jesus ascended to heaven that is when he saved mankind?
John 12:27 “Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.” 29 Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
Jesus died on the cross he was lifted up onto!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,08:16) GB,
We in Christ will have a new body but not of earthly perishable flesh.
Right!The Flesh of Jesus did not perish, it did not decompose during his death, it was raised without any corruption.
We too will be raised with imperishable flesh.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote what Paul really says is not that flesh will be in heaven, what he says is that there are many flesh around and that they are different from each other, and like in plants the seed as to die to become something totally different of that seed like form,
You are certainly understanding Paul’s words different than I am. It seems to me he was merely providing examples of what he meant by the difference between “the body that will be” and the “seed he gives its own body”.
Paul implies elsewhere that flesh can enter the third heaven, as he is unsure if a man entered in the flesh or not, 2 Corinthians 12:2.
In addition Adam and Eve lived in Eden which is located in the third heaven under the name Paradise. 2 Corinthians 12:4.
KW
2Co 11:30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.
2Co 11:32 In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me.
2Co 11:33 But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
2Co 12:3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
2Co 12:4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
2Co 12:5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.so what Paul is talking about is boasting and that having knowledge who does not save us is not useful,
there is also knowledge given by God to those he loves but not to be given out to they others,this is for comfort from God to the ones he loves.the 3 heaven is not explained more ,but it is used by many to boast up there so called knowledge ,this only works with the weak ones, people who do not have much scriptures knowledge,
even less understanding.Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 14 2010,10:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,08:16) GB,
We in Christ will have a new body but not of earthly perishable flesh.
Right!The Flesh of Jesus did not perish, it did not decompose during his death, it was raised without any corruption.
We too will be raised with imperishable flesh.
Hi Jodi,
Cut and torn ?
It that your hope too?
A transformed old flesh body and not a new one put over it?Hi Jodi,
Those in Christ who are alive when Jesus returns, are they in the first resurrection?
In what way are they resurrected?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,10:42) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 14 2010,10:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,08:16) GB,
We in Christ will have a new body but not of earthly perishable flesh.
Right!The Flesh of Jesus did not perish, it did not decompose during his death, it was raised without any corruption.
We too will be raised with imperishable flesh.
Hi Jodi,
Cut and torn ?
It that your hope too?
A transformed old flesh body and not a new one put over it?
Before God brought the punishment of death to Adam and Eve, was their flesh cut and torn? No of course not, it was flesh that did not know death and death did not have any dominion over it.Adam and Eve when they sinned were not changed into flesh, they already were flesh, their flesh was changed from incorruptible to corruptible.
Hi Jodi,
So Jesus was raised in his old perishable tent.Do you think he is still in it ?
Has it been healed and transformed?
Or is he in a new heavenly non flesh body?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,10:47) Hi Jodi,
Those in Christ who are alive when Jesus returns, are they in the first resurrection?
In what way are they resurrected?
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed– 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.No matter if you are asleep or awake, at the time of resurrection the body of mortal flesh will be changed to immortal flesh.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2010,10:58) Hi Jodi,
So Jesus was raised in his old perishable tent.Do you think he is still in it ?
Has it been healed and transformed?
Or is he in a new heavenly non flesh body?
Nick, did I say Jesus was raised in his old perishable tent?When you can post back to me what I actually said then I will respond back to you, otherwise there is NO POINT in conversing with you. Because all you are showing to me right now is that you lack the ability to READ what is written, so your a waist of time.
I have ignored you before and I could happily do it again!
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