Seven Gentile Empires

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November 8, 2014 at 10:34 am#782814
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Introduction
The following is a presentation of an eschatological view that teaches the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast mentioned in the Book of Revelation. The purpose of this teaching is to present this theory as a possible interpretation that fulfills the prophecies regarding the seventh Beast on Earth, (actually the seventh and eighth kings spoken of by John). This Beast is an Islamic Empire and is said to be ruled by the Islamic Mahdi whose description uncannily matches the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible.
There are of course a number of popular end-time theories. Let’s first take a quick look at two popular eschatological views.
The Futurist View says that Europe is the Beast, the Antichrist a Jew, and the Mark of the Beast as a computer chip or bar-code implanted into people’s right-hand or forehead for the purposes of buying and selling.
The Preterite View interprets prophecies of the Bible as events that have already happened throughout history. This view usually features The Roman Empire, emperors, the Vatican, and popes as having fulfilled many end-time prophecies. I personally remain open minded on all the views out there and do think there is some merit with many of them, but obviously all cannot be right in their entirety.
An important thing to note before me move on to this new eschatological view is where other views place Islam. Many consider Islam to be important enough to play a part in the End Times, but they do not know where if at all it is mentioned in the Bible. This teaching places the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast.
The Islamic Beast Eschatological View
The Islamic Beast eschatological view for want of a better title is conjecture just like all other views. But it seems to tick all the boxes and is worthy of our consideration because the evidence is very compelling. Without further ado, I present the evidence that supports the Islamic Caliphate as the last Kingdom that belongs to the Beast that rises from the Great Sea headed by the Antichrist.
The AntiChrist
The Bible clearly states that antichrists deny the Father and the Son in 1 John 2:22-23:
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
The Quran states clearly in Quran 2:116
Who says “Allah has begotten a Son”?
Quran 10.68
They say, “Allah hath begotten a son!” Glory be to Him! He is Self-Sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this!
To understand how central to the Islamic faith it is to oppose the view that God has a son, these words are inscribed in the mosque at the Dome of the Rock where the Jews formerly worshipped YHWH:
“Far be it from God that he should have a son!”
Thus Islam is an antichrist religion according to scripture.
Who conquered the Roman Beast?
In scripture and history we see that each head on the Beast (kingdom) was succeeded by the next, i.e., Babylon was conquered by Persia was conquered by Greece was conquered by Rome. So it would be logical to think then that whoever conquered Rome could be the next Beast if we follow this pattern. However, many remain confused about who conquered Rome because they believe that the Roman Empire just fell into decline rather than being conquered by a succeeding empire. What many do not consider is that the Roman Empire had two legs, the western leg and eastern leg and this is even pictured in the statue of Daniel’s vision in Daniel 2:32-33:
“The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
While the western leg did indeed decline over time, the eastern leg continued to exist for another thousand years. Think of Constantinople rather than Rome. So while we may view Rome as the center of the Roman Empire, in the last period of this empire, the capital was moved to Constantinople in the east which is now modern day Istanbul in Turkey. This period of the Roman Empire is often referred to as the Byzantine Empire hence why there is some confusion as to how the Roman Empire was conquered. Rest assure however that the Byzantine Empire was still the Roman Empire. It is called by this name to identify this phase of the Roman Empire. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as being a different empire from the Roman Empire when its capital was Rome. The east did not conquer the west, instead the same empire just moved its capital from Rome to Constantinople. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire. and themselves as Roman citizens.
[caption id="attachment_770614" align="alignright" width="197"] The Ottoman Empire in 1795[/caption]
So who conquered the Roman (Byzantine) Empire? It was the Ottoman Empire which was actually the first Islamic Caliphate. So the seventh empire spoken of by John appears to have already been fulfilled, it was the Ottoman Empire. Known as a Caliphate, it initially took control of the region and it said to have reached empire status when it conquered the Roman capital of Constantinople. It subsequently became the capital of the Ottoman Empire and was renamed to ‘Istanbul’.
In case you think that the Ottoman Empire was not significant enough to be compared with the previous empires that make up the Beast, then know this. It reigned for a significant period of time, from 1299 to around 1924. It could be argued that the Ottoman Empire was more of a state until 1453 when it conquered Constantinople the capital of the Roman Empire. And at the height of its power, it controlled much of southeast Europe, the Caucasus, Western Asia, and North Africa, even as far south as the Horn of Africa.
More proof for the identity of the seventh kingdom
Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
While the popular view of the Beast is a revived Roman Empire, the above scripture (Revelation 17:9) shows us that the Roman Empire was only the sixth kingdom because that was the empire that reigned when John gave the prophecy, (five have fallen, one is). We can clearly see that there is still a seventh kingdom to come and also an eighth which is of the seventh (or seven). We also know that each kingdom/empire was succeeded by the next and that the Ottoman Empire conquered the Roman Empire and took over its capital.
Another significant feature of The Ottoman Empire was its length of rule. It reigned for 500 years or so over a huge swathes of land around the Mediterranean Sea. Its capital was Istanbul in Turkey which was called Constantinople during the reign of the Eastern Roman Empire. These two points are significant because Istanbul resides in modern day Turkey today and scripture itself actually tells us that Turkey is the location for the seat of the Antichrist and the Beast. It also says that the Beast arises out of the ‘Great Sea’ which is the Mediterranean Sea, we will read about this later. First take a look at Revelation 13:2:
The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
We can see that the Dragon (who is Satan) gave his throne to the Beast. So where is Satan’s throne located? Take a look at Revelation 2:12:
“To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘I know your works, and where you dwell… where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to my name, and did not deny my faith even in the days in which Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.
So where is Pergamum? It is in Turkey, the very same country where both the capitals of the Roman Empire and Ottoman empires were located. Is it a coincidence then that both the late Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire had their capitals in the very same country as the location of Satan’s throne?
Other popular views today regarding the seventh head/kingdom include: the British Empire and or the American Empire. But there is one simple verse in Daniel that rules out any other empire outside of the Mediterranean as being part of the Beast. The verse is Daniel 7:1-3
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.
According to most commentary on the term ‘great sea’, it is identified as the Mediterranean Sea. In fact if you google “The Great Sea” Google also tells you that it is the Mediterranean Sea. If this is correct, then we can see that the Beast or the last four empires are indeed from the Middle East and specifically around the Mediterranean, which by reason of this excludes empires outside of this region. In fact all seven empires had extensive coastline in the Mediterranean Sea, even Egypt.
Picture this. Just outside of Israel is a Beast that is ready to devour the Jews and occupy the promised land. It is not too hard to see what is happening here. God carves out a country for himself as we read in scripture, in order to demonstrate his power and existence to the Gentiles. Satan’s opposition to Israel (the promised land) is surrounded by a Beast that attacks and persecutes not only that nation, but all her offspring too.
Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.
This is one of the signs of each head of the Beast. They persecuted the Jews and even captivated them. We cannot say the same about The British Empire or the American Empire.
The seven kingdoms
Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession:
1. Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
2. Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
3. Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
4. Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
5. Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
6. Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
7. Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)
Note: Many of these empires existed at the same time, but the following empire defeated the previous empire in this list. The dates are approximate.
The Beast receives a deadly wound
Which of the heads then suffers a deadly wound?
“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”
We also read that this beast is referred with the following description: “whose deadly wound was healed”.
Understanding this, we see the history of the Ottoman/Islamic Empire as fitting that description perfectly. It ceased to exist in the wake of WW1 meaning that the whole seven headed beast actually died because all the previous heads of the beast existed in succession. So the beast is officially gone today. Over a century later, we have seen the attempted rise of an Islamic Empire when ISIS declared its Caliphate. It failed as we all know, but that is obviously not the end of the story. Many in the Islamic world long for an Islamic Caliphate.
[caption id="attachment_401657" align="alignright" width="250"] ISIS optimistic 5 year projection of new Caliphate[/caption]
Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,
Next we read in Revelation 17:11:
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
This perfectly describes the rise of a future Islamic Caliphate. If the Ottoman (Islamic) Empire was the seventh and the eighth comes from the seventh, then the rise of an Islamic Caliphate in modern times could indeed be the fulfillment of these scriptures. This means the Beast that once was will be again.
We further read in scripture that this whole Beast will be destroyed by a stone that struck the statue. That stone is the Kingdom of God and it will spread to the whole Earth. There are also a number of signs in scripture that also describe the nature of the Islamic Caliphate that we see on the rise today. If true, this means that Islam will be conquered by Christ and his kingdom.
What about a revived Roman Empire instead of an Islamic Caliphate
But what about the view that the Roman Empire will be the empire that comes back to life. This is a popular view and one that has been taught for many years. This of course is still possible and fits in the realm of this Islamic Eschatological view because most immigration to Europe is coming from the Islamic world. Also notice that the eighth king doesn’t necessarily mean it belongs to the seventh kingdom, but it could be all of the seven. Let’s read that verse again:
Revelation 17:11:
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
Does this mean seventh or all seven? I don’t know.
It could turn out that Europe is still part of this resurrected kingdom. In Daniel 2:43 we read that the feet are not just clay, but iron mixed with clay.
… You saw the iron mixed with clay–the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.
If the legs of iron were Rome and the two legs the East and West, then the last kingdom is a mixture of that iron but with clay.
Iron mixed with clay
Did you know that the word ‘mixed’ here is actually the word ‘arab‘ in Aramaic. Further, if the iron is the Roman Empire and the mixing of clay is infiltration or taking over by Arabs as we see with the Ottoman Empire’s takeover of the Roman Empire, then it could happen once again where Arabs/Muslims takeover parts of Europe and continue to hold the Middle East as they do today.
Perhaps those who predict a revived Roman Empire’ are correct. Accept it may not be ruled by Romans/Europeans, but Muslims who are immigrating and invading Europe in hordes. The Muslim population in Europe has a much higher birth-rate than the native Europeans who are in decline. It is immigration that bolsters Europe’s population and if Muslims in Europe become large enough, Europe or parts of it could become Islamic states in the future. If this were to happen, Israel could easily find itself surrounded by enemies much further afield too. Israel is of course already surrounded by enemies, but there may not be a sympathetic Europe to help protect them if the Islamic world were to invade Israel at some point. If Muslims could rule not only the Middle East but a future Europe too or large swathes of it, then that would only leave only the USA as a partner for Israel. While the USA could remain a friend of Israel in years to come, they may also reject Israel, or perhaps the USA itself could fall. The latter two would leave Israel on their own. Of course this is all speculation, but it is good to keep an open mind on this as there are many ways this could all play out.
Muammar Gaddafi once said:
We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.
Speech (10 April 2006), quoted in New York Sun (6 September 2009)
The Mark of the Beast
While traditional eschatology teaches that a computer chip or bar-code of some kind will be placed on/in the hand or forehead in the last days, Muslims already wear on their forehead their mark which is, “In the name of Allah”. Remember that the mark of the beast is not just a number, but is also both a name and a mark/symbol. See Revelation 13:16-17
“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
[caption id="attachment_770619" align="alignleft" width="150"] Allah in Arabic[/caption]
So what exactly does it mean when scripture says ‘name’? And could the creed of Islam really be the mark, the number, and the name. Scripture uses the word ‘name’ often to identify a person as you would well imagine, but scripture also uses that word to describe the essence or character of a person or thing. Just as the Old Testament says of the coming messiah that his name shall be called ‘Emmanuel’ (God is with us) he was not actually called by that name, rather its meaning or creed was used to describe the coming messiah. Likewise the creed or name of Islam is written on the foreheads of these radical Muslims.
The term “In the name of Allah” in Arabic resembles 666 (χξς) in Greek. It is possible that John actually saw in his vision the mark or name of Allah and it reminded him of the number 666 or he just wrote the symbol down as he saw it and translators wrote it down as 666 as it was the closest thing to the symbol
This view also could explain a puzzle. While most ancient texts say the number is 666, some say ‘616’ and nobody knows why. So what was it about this part of the text that caused some manuscripts to copy it as 616? What if John saw the Arabic for “In the name of Allah”? That could explain the confusion because he didn’t see a Hebrew number, instead he saw what looked like a number but was actually a name, and also a mark/symbol. “…except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
In the future, it is not hard to imagine an Islamic leader or prophet forcing people to wear the symbol or name of Allah on their foreheads and further barring anyone not identifying their allegiance this way as being barred from buying and selling in society thereby denying basic things like food, shelter, and medicine. People would either wear this mark or reject it and face hardship even starvation by rejecting it. A visible wearing of this mark would identify whose side you were on. (You also have to wonder how the Futurist eschatological view of a computer chip, RFID tag, or barcode as the mark could also be a name or a symbol?)
The abomination that causes desolation
What about the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel? Well look no further than a The Dome of the Rock. Remember that written on the wall of this mosque is “Far be it from God that he should have a son!”. The mosque supposedly sits in the holy place where the Jewish Temple stood and given that Islam denies the son of God, then it could be said that it is an antichrist temple in the place of the Jewish Temple. Further, the Hadith (a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors) say that the Mahdi (Islamic messiah to come) will eye Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock as his home. Perhaps one day the Mahdi will sit in this temple as Islamic prophecy teaches. That could certainly qualify as the abomination in the holy place.
[caption id="attachment_770345" align="aligncenter" width="530"] Jerusalem Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock Mosque[/caption]
Who is beheading the Christians?
Revelation 20:4
…And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Can you imagine Italians, Romans, or the Vatican beheading Christians during the tribulation of the last days? To be fair the Vatican could have done this in the past. Today it is exclusively Muslims who are beheading Christians and others. Beheadings and even crucifixions are being performed today by radicals of Islam. Decapitations of course are a recurring theme during the 1,400 years of Islamic history. The earliest biographer of Muhammad recorded the decapitation of 700 men from the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina by order of Muhammad in 768 C.E. (‘Abd al-Malik Ibn Hisham, The Life of Muhammad.) So why does Islam have a history of beheadings? You don’t have to look any further than their own so-called holy book.
Quran 47:4
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”
Quran 8:12
“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
It seems that the Quran encourages the killing of non-Muslims and in particular Christians and Jews. This ties in with what the Bible says in John 16:2.
but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. “But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
Who in the world kills Jews and Christians and by doing so think they are doing service to God? Is this not a perfect description for Radical Muslims today?
Who worships the dragon?
If Islam is Antichrist, then can Allah be the true God? While some consider it a name which just means God (including Arabic Bibles), it has to be said that Satan is also a god according to scripture, i.e., the god of this age/world.
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
So just because someone is called God or a god, that is not proof that it is the one true God because there are many so-called gods or false gods. So what kind of God are we talking about whose religion fits the Bible’s description of antichrist? And what is it that we see over 1 billion people doing before this God every day. In fact Islam required that Allah is worshipped five times a day with varying bodily positions performed including laying prostrate. In Revelation 13:4 we read:
they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”
Here we see that men will worship the dragon. Scripture reveals the dragon as Satan in the same Book of Revelation. The word ‘satan’ means ‘adversary’. The word ‘worship’ has a number of associated meanings with one being ‘prostrate‘ which means ‘lying on the ground with one’s face downward’. A perfect description of those who worship Allah don’t you think? Also bear in mind that the heads of the Beast or kingdoms that have made up the Beast in history cover an area of the world that is predominantly Muslim. So the majority of the Biblical world today which is also where the Beast resides, actually belongs to Islam. They deny outright that Jesus is the son of God which by biblical definition is how the Antichrist spirit reveals itself. They worship Allah five times a day and prostrate themselves before Allah. The question is begged, is Allah, Satan of the Bible? Well we know that the true God has a son, and Satan doesn’t have a son because he cannot procreate or begat. So if Allah doesn’t have a son, then he cannot be the true God because the true God has a son.
Who has declared war against the most terrible of nations?
Ezekiel 28:7-8
Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon you, the most ruthless of the nations and they will draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom and defile your splendor. ‘They will bring you down to the pit, and you will die the death of those who are slain in the heart of the seas.
Many think the above verse is talking about Islam and the Mahdi/ Antichrist. It says that he will declare war against the most ruthless/terrible of nations. Who are the most ruthless of nations today? The word ‘ruthless’ is synonymous with ‘terrible’. Translations usually use one or the other word. Terrible and ruthless in other verses is talking about being ruthless in battle. See Ezekiel 30:10-11 for example:
“I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. “He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain.
So who are the most powerful military powers today? Well that would have to be the USA and the West in general. And who today has declared war on the USA and the West? I can only think of one entity, The Islamic World. And notice that it is a coalition of nations or more than one nation that defeats this enemy. This could be describing the West. If this view is correct, then we could certainly be near the end of this age as there is already a war against terror or Radical Islam vs Israel and the West or the West vs Radical Islam. However, I hesitate to include this idea because it is not certain that this verse is talking about the time of the end or some other time after the prophecy was given. I continue to investigate this opinion as it might be an important clue.
The Mahdi as the Antichrist
In the Islamic world, The Hadith is a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors over the centuries. They contain Islamic teachings and prophecies. The Mahdi prophesied in the Hadith is a person whom Muslims await in a similar fashion as Christians awaiting the second coming of Christ. When you compare the descriptions and prophecies of the Mahdi with what is written in the Bible about the Antichrist, they seem to be talking about the same person or at least match the descriptions and prophecies of the Bible. Are they the same person?
- Both are military leaders
Both the Mahdi and the Antichrist are described as a powerful political military leaders.
- Both are stout
Both the Mahdi and Antichrist are described as being stout with unusual eyes. See Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. The Hadith says: Mahdi translates to ‘guided one’. His appearance will be the first sign of the third period. The Mahdi will be looked upon to kill Al-Dajjal and prepare for the reign of Jesus who will rule for a time after. The physical features of Mahdi are described—he will be of Arab complexion and average height with a large belly, large eyes and a sharp nose. He will have a mole on his cheek, the sign of the prophet on his shoulder. He will rule for seven years. His name will be announced from the sky. He will bring the Ark of the Covenant to light. His banner will be black and unstitched, with a halo. He will be helped by angels and others that will prepare the way for him.
Notice that his banner will be black. This is what we see when ISIS overtakes a new territory. They raise black banners because they are trying to fulfill this Islamic prophecy.
- Both sign seven year treaties
In the Hadith quoted above, you can see that the Mahdi will rule for seven years. Further, he will sign a seven year peace treaty Rasulullah [Muhammad] said: “There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans [Christians]. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadrat Haroon [Honorable Aaron – Moses’ brother] and will be upheld for seven years. (Tabarani, as related by Hadrat Abu Umamah, as quoted by Zubair Ali, p. 43 and Abduallah, p. 55) In Daniel 9:27 we read this: He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. In the Islamic world, it is acceptable to break a treaty, if you are advancing the cause of Islam. If the Dome of the Rock is the home of the Mahdi, (or even a rebuilt Jewish temple on this site) then him sitting in this temple could be the sign of the broken peace treaty which is the ‘abomination that causes desolation’ as mentioned by Daniel.
- Both change laws and times
[caption id="attachment_801310" align="alignright" width="150"] Makkah Clock Royal Tower[/caption]
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Compare Daniel 7:25 with the obviously fact that Islam seeks to impose Sharia Law and the halal mark and you have a similar description. Further, there is also an increasing voice in Islam to change Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) to Mecca time. The world’s largest clock was unveiled in 2010 in Saudi Arabia. Its first official duty is marking time during Ramadan. The clock looks very similar to Big Ben (which keeps GMT) except it is six times taller making it the third tallest building in the world. The sheer size of this clock is meant to dwarf Big Ben in a symbolic move to make Islamic Time more prominent than Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). Some have argued that GMT is the remnant of a colonial heritage, and it is time to turn over a new page. So the stage is already set for the Mahdi to move away from colonial laws and time to Islamic Sharia Law and Islamic Time.
- Both target Christians, Jews, Israel, and Jerusalem
Radical Islam today targets all who do not accept Sharia Law, but especially persecutes Christians and Jews. It is not hard to accept that the Mahdi would take this to a new level such as what we read about the Antichrist in the Bible. Further, one of the main missions for Radical Islam is to wipe Israel off the map. This is why Hamas and other Palestinian authorities often refuse to agree to any deal to live alongside Israel or acknowledge her existence. Matthew 24:16-21:
then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Daniel 7:25:
“He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.”
- Both honor a god of force/strongholds/war
It is clear that Radical Islam uses force or war to advance Sharia Law. It is justified in the Quran as a way to get people to worship Allah and obey Sharia Law. It would be assumed then that a future Mahdi would follow suit or take this to a new level. We read in the Quran the following: Quran 2:244 “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.” Quran 4:74 “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” Also, in Quran 4:76 “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…” In the Bible, we read in Daniel 11:38-39 But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. “He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; he will give great honor to those who acknowledge him and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price. It also says that the will not regard the God of his fathers. This could mean he is an offspring of Abraham, but an Ishmaelite, thus the God that he does regard could be Allah, not YHWH who is the God of Abraham.
This same verse in the KJV and Webster’s Bible Translation says God of forces, while the Young’s Literal Translation says god of strongholds. I like the latter as it describes Satan’s works that Jesus came to destroy. We are told a number of times that we can bring down the enemy’s strongholds and certainly Islam is a stronghold. Further, Paul uses the word ‘fortresses/strongholds’ in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, which he uses metaphorically to describe the spiritual battle before us: , NASB – Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses or NIV – For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
- Both do not honor the desire of woman
We all know about women’s rights in Islam. In Daniel 11:37 this trait is identified with the Antichrist: Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, … This verse seems to say that the Antichrist will not regard the desire of woman. While it is hard to know what that really means, taking it at face value seems to be the most accepted meaning. If that meaning is true, then it fits with the religion of Islam which has little regard for women in general.
The False prophet
We can see the connection between the Biblical Antichrist and the coming Islamic Mahdi, but scripture also mentions the false prophet. The Qur’an itself also prophesies the coming of the Islamic Jesus who is called “Isa Ibn Maryam”. Like the Bible, the Qu’ran says that he will return, but like all prophets in Islam, their Jesus is considered a Muslim.
According to the Hadith, the Islamic Jesus will descend in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi, He will fight against the Dajjal who is called the Antichrist or False messiah according to Islam. The Islamic Jesus will descend east of Damascus dressed in yellow robes. He will join the Mahdi and help fight against the Dajjal. Then the Islamic Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and at this point the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) will believe in him and will become part of Islam.
If the Antichrist of the Bible is the Madhi of Islam, then it seems logical at least that the False Prophet of the Bible is the Islamic Jesus. The idea is that if the Jews and Christians can be convinced that their Jesus is the true messiah, then they will convert to Islam. Now lets read about the False Prophet in Revelation 13:11-12
Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed
Notice that this second beast who is the False Prophet is likened unto a lamb. This is important because Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. So the false prophet is one who tries to mimic Jesus Christ, except he has two horns and speaks like a dragon. Further we know that the dragon is Satan, so the Lamb speaks like Satan. Satan means adversary, so this lamb will be adverse to the true Lamb of God.
The Bible and the Quran
It seems that after John wrote the Book of Revelation, Satan decided to counter the prophecies by raising up a false prophet who started a religion that was the counter of what we read in the Bible. It didn’t help Christianity that it had fallen into false doctrine and idol worship around this time. It was perhaps this falling away that helped Islam take hold. With consequent centuries, the Islamic influence grew and even ruled as an empire after it conquered the Roman Empire with the conquering of Constantinople which was considered Christian. From there, it was a matter of converting all the people of the Ottoman empire to Islam. Eventually the area become predominantly Muslim and even the original seven churches in Revelation became an area dominated by Islam. This was achieved by converting people and killing those who refused Islam.
The role of the Trinity
In Islam’s early days it may have appealed to people who were sick of idol and saint worship as well as the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity. The Quran gives a clue in 004:171 Rashad:
O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, “Trinity.” You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
It seems that the Doctrine of the Trinity was one of the Christian doctrines that they opposed and even though this doesn’t make the doctrine wrong, the doctrine is in the least, completely unnecessary and has caused much harm and division for Christians.
Even today, Christians preach the Trinity as a foundational doctrine, yet there is nothing in the Bible that says that they should preach the Trinity to anyone. Even many teachers whose eschatology is similar to this one still preach the Trinity. This is sad because it helps alienate Muslims and Jews from the gospel. It is an unnecessary stumbling block. Instead we should be preaching that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord. Look at Peter’s answer as to who Jesus was and look at the response from Jesus.
Matthew 16:13-20
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Simply put, this is the truth that we should be preaching with regards to who Jesus is because this is what the Father has revealed about his identity. To truly convert Muslims or religious Jews to Jesus Christ, they need only to believe who Jesus is besides required repentance etc. Muslims already accept that Jesus is the messiah, but reject that he is the son of God. In my experience it is not as hard as you think for Muslims to be converted and accept Jesus as the son of God and as the one whom God made both Lord and Messiah, (see Acts 2:36). However, they rarely accept the Trinity Doctrine and for good reason. It is not part of the gospel, it is not part of the elementary teachings of the faith, instead it was a doctrine that came centuries after the last book in the Bible was written. It may even have been this doctrine that helped Islam gain a foothold in this part of the world in the first place. Sadly it is still preached as being a requirement by many Christians today. If we want to convert Muslims and Jews with the gospel, then do not put unnecessary stumbling blocks in their way. To learn more about the Trinity Doctrine feel free to read this page.
That wraps up this presentation of this eschatological view and while it is quite different to more traditional views, it does explain a lot of prophecies well, where some of these other views struggle. However, it is important to remember that we would do well to consider new information and ideas that might come along in the future that could change everything. The last thing we should do as Believers in Christ is believe this or any other eschatological view wholeheartedly leaving us free to accept a future RFID chip in our bodies for example because our eschatological view does not accept a computer chip as the Mark of the Beast. Simply put, be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Further those who hold stubbornly to certain views can cause divisions over arguments regarding differing views. Remember, we should make every effort to be at peace with our brothers.
Facts to consider
To sum up this eschatological view here are some facts to consider.
1. The antichrist spirit exhibits a number of traits, one being that they deny the Father and Son.
2. Because Islam teaches that God has no son, they clearly and openly deny that God is a Father and that he has a son.
3. Islamic Caliphates are not only political entities, but they are also religious with their own laws and times.
4. The Ottoman Empire was the next empire after the Roman Empire. It conquered the Roman Empire.
5. We are told that their will be an eighth kingdom which is of the seventh or seven. See Revelation 17:11.
6. Rome was clearly the sixth kingdom. It was the one that was in existence, when John gave the prophecy. See Revelation 17:9-10
7. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as a different empire from the western empire. The east did not conquer the west. The capital moved from Rome to Constantinople. That period of the kingdom is called the Byzantine period.
8. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire.
9. Daniel sees the Beast rise out from the Great Sea. That is the name for the Mediterranean Sea in scripture, thus the kingdoms of the Beast are located around that sea.
10. Islam gained ground partly because Christianity had fallen into idol & saint worship as well as false teachings.
11. The Bible and Quran seem to teach the opposite of each other. It seems that one is the adversary of the other.
12. The Book of Revelation tells us that Satan’s throne was in Turkey, the very country that the Ottoman Empire had its seat of government. It was also the seat of the Roman Empire during the Byzantine period.
November 8, 2014 at 1:00 pm#782831
Wakeup
Participant
T8.

I stick to the prophesies if I were you. There we can fiend the truth.
Satan is preparing a great deception,so we should not hear what is said on the news or videos.
Use them only to watch the game he is playing.
I can see that the way is being prepared for the nwo and the false prophet.
Let us see what the scripture says, Revelation 13:1   And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
ONE BEAST COMING OUT OF THE SEA WITH SEVEN HEADS, BUT THE BODY IS *ONE* AND THE SAME.
THE HEADS ARE THE SEVEN EMPIRES. THE 7TH IS THE LAST. THE 8TH IS ALSO OF THE SEVENTH.
WE KNOW THAT THE OTTOMAN IS NOT THE LAST, BECAUSE IT IS NOT HERE. IT IS THE PAST.
NO ONE CAN CLAIM THE OTTOMAN IS HERE ,CAN YOU? NOTE THE 10 HORNS, NOT ONE, BUT TEN.
IF IT IS COMING,IT WILL BE FOR YEARS TO COME TO BE ESTABLISHED AS A SOVEREIGN EMPIRE.
THE SECOND COMING IS AT THE DOOR.
Revelation 13:2   And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
SATAN GAVE THIS TEN HORNED BEAST POWER (TEN HORN).
LEOPARD; LION; BEAR. FOR THIS MUST SEE DANIEL 7:1–6 DAN 8:5.
Revelation 13:3   And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
THE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED;   AND THE WORLD WONDER AFTER THE BEAST.
THIS IS THE TOTAL OPPOSITE TO WHAT THE WORLD THINK OF THIS BEAST.
DO WE WONDER AFTER  THIS GROUP OF REBBELS CALLED ISIS? WILL THE WORLD EVER WONDER AFTER THIS KINGDOM?
IF IT EVER BECOMES ONE?
Revelation 13:4   And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
WHO IS ABLE TO MAKE WAR WITH HIM? MAKE WAR WITH ISIS? OR THE COMING OTTOMAN?
I CAN NAME ONE DOZEN NATIONS THAT CAN MAKE WAR. IT IS HAPPENING NOW.
YOU THINK ISIS WILL COME ON TOP?
Revelation 13:5   And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty two months.
GOD HAS GIVEN POWER TO SATAN FOR ONLY 3/HALF YEARS. THEN THE COMING REV 11.
ISIS IS NEARLY OVER; OK, SO LET US SAY ISIS WILL TURN INTO A WORLD EMPIRE IN TEN YEARS TIME.(2025).
HE WILL ONLY LAST TO 2028 AND IT IS ALL OVER.
Revelation 13:6   And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
HOW CAN A PAGAN BLASPHEME AGAINT GOD? FOR HE DOES NOT KNOW THE TRUE GOD?
HOW CAN ONE BLASPHEME A NAME THEY DONT KNOW?
THE MUSLEMS DONT WORSHIP JEHOVAH; THEY **THINK** THEY DO.
ALLAH IS THEIR GOD; CAN BE ANY GOD.
THEY DO NOT BELONG TO THE JUDAIC CHRISTIAN BREED, LIKE THE ROMAN CHURCH.
HOW CAN ONE SIN AGAINST GOD, IF HE NEVER KNEW HIM. ONLT CHRISTIANS KNOW HIM.
HOW CAN A MUSLEM BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT? THEY DONT KNOW HIM.
AS FOR A CHRISTIAN IT WILL BE A GREAT UNFORGIVABLE SIN.
Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
POWER WAS GIVEN HIM TO SLAY THE SAINTS FOR?……….            3/HALF YEARS.
THE GERMANS ALSO HAD POWER GIVEN TO SLAY THE JEWS FOR A VERY SHORT TIME. 3/HALF YEARS.
ALL POWER COMES FROM GOD. HE BRINGS UP KINGS, AND HE ALSO BRINGS DOWN KINGS.
Revelation 13:8   And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
ALL THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH SHALL WORSHIP THE NEW REVIVED OTTOMAN EMPIRE??
AND GIVE UP THEIR NUCLEAR ARSENAL?
FOR HOW LONG? HE ONLY HAS 3/HALF YEARS ?? YOU BLINK YOUR EYES, AND THREE AND A HALF YEARS IS PAST.
Revelation 13:9   If any man have an ear, let him hear.
GOD SPEAKING: LET ANYONE HEAR THIS WORD. NOT SOME OTHER STRANGE WORD.
ANYONE CAN IF IT PLEASES HIM.
Revelation 13:10   He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
ANYONE CAUSES ANOTHER TO BE TAKEN CAPTIVE (SUCH AS WISTLE BLOWING) ; HE HIMSELF WILL BE TAKEN CAPTIVE.
HE WHO CAUSED SOME ONE KILLED; HE ALSO WILL BE KILLED. WE ARE DEALING WITH GOD HERE.
Revelation 13:11   And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
THIS BEAST CAME OUT OF THE EARTH. NOT THE SEA. HE HAD TWO HORNS.
THIS BEAST IS A PERSON. HORNS REPRESENT AUTHORITY AS KING. HE HAS TWO.
ONE IS AUTHORITY OVER SECULAR AFFAIRS; AND THE OTHER ONE OVER SPIRITUAL AFFAIRS.
HE IS THE FALSE PROPHET,COMING SOON. SOME SAY HE WILL COME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST.
SCRIPTURE SAYS FROM THE FAR NORTH. SOME SAY NORTH = TURKEY. THEY NEED TO SEEK THE SCRIPTURES MORE.
Revelation 13:12   And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
HE WILL CAUSE ALL ON THE EARTH TO WORSHIP THE FIRST BEAST WITH THE 10 HORNS. (DOES NOT FIT THE OTTOMAN EMP).
THE FALSE PROPHET WILL CAUSE THEM TO WORSHIP/ ADHERE TO THE SYSTEM. BY HIS ORDERS.
<tt><b>Revelation 13:13</b></tt> And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
THE FALSE PROPHET WIL BE GIVEN POWER BY SATAN, AND GOD WILL GIVE SATAN THE AUTHORITY FOR 3/HALF YEARS.
TO DO WONDERS. LYING WONDERS.
Revelation 13:14   And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
HE IS SATANS PRINCE; THE SON OF HIS WOMAN BABYLON THE GREAT; HE WILL DO ALL THE LYING WONDERS.
THE IMAGE IS HIM TO BE WORSHIPPED AS GOD.
Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
HIS LAWS WILL SPEAK, AND CAUSE THEM THAT DO NOT ADHERE TO THE LAW WILL BE KILLED.
THERE WILL BE ANNOUNCEMENTS MADE. ON THE NEWS,IN THE PAPERS.
Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
THE LAW WILL SAY THAT ALL MUST HAVE HIS MARK IN THEIR HANDS OR IN THE FOREHEAD. OR BE KILLED.
IF YOU DONT ADHERE TO THE SYSTEM YOU ARE SEEN AS A TERRORIST. THINGS ARE TURNED UP SIDE DOWN.
Revelation 13:17   And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
THAT MARK IS ABOUT BUYING OR SELLING. TRADE AND COMMERCE, JOBS.
THAT MARK MUST BE PHYSICAL FOR THE TRADERS TO SEE, AND GIVE THE OK TO BUY OR SELL.
Revelation 13:18   Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number Six hundred threescore and six.
WE CAN COUNT THAT MARK WHEN IT IS HERE WITH US.
It is up to the person to call this a cult. nothing written was in secret.
Everyone is free to come up with scriptures to debate this interpretation.

Shalom.
wakeup.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Admin.
November 9, 2014 at 2:11 am#782871
Proclaimer
Participant
Yes I will stick to prophecy, but I will also stick to signs. If you have a theology that ignores signs, then you are not open to the truth, but have become a peddler of a doctrine that ignores signs. When I am driving I do not ignore signs. Likewise I will post videos containing signs of the times and I will include talking about signs in my posts too.
If you think a theology that can answer all end-time prophecy questions makes it right, then I am here to tell you that this is not a sign of truth. Sure contradictions in a view clearly point to a problem, but many cults follow doctrines that they can answer with their view without contradiction. The JWs for example have an answer for almost everything. Your theory may be able to answer many questions, but that is no proof it is right. If you believe that England or the UK is the seventh beast or part of it, then I believe you are wrong. The British Empire did not succeed the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire did. History is clear about that. And if you think that the Ottoman Empire defeating the Roman Empire is not significant, all the while acknowledging that the other heads defeated the previous and the Beast always had a head that was living until the Ottoman Empire, then I believe you are intentionally ignoring a very great sign.
Also, the reason I have not engaged you previously in discussion on prophecy is because I cannot be bothered to debate anyone who I perceive would not change their mind ever, but would stick to his view no matter what. Such battles are lengthy and are hardly ever resolved and bear little fruit. I know this from personal experience. However, I admit it can benefit readers to see a view being slain, even if the person you are discussing with believes they are right even till the end. I guess others can see things more objectively because they are not suffering from their particular warped perception of things.
I started this topic about Islam, so I will debate with you and anyone regarding this topic. I still need to be 100% convinced of this view too, but I have little time to debate your current views as I think I know how this will play out. I bring up a good point and it will get mostly ignored and countered with a set predefined answer that is inadequate. Maybe I am being harsh here. If so, let’s just say that after debating many here, I have come to expect that good points just get ignored because of a predefined view.
I do very much like to discuss with open-minded people. Not double minded or stubborn minded, but those people who love truth and seek it with all their hearts. If you are the latter, I would spend time discussing things with you for sure. But from the little I have read from you which I know means it is not conclusive, you do seem to have your mind made up no matter what (like many Trinitarians). I could be wrong about you of course, but I really do get the feeling I am just going to get set answers to everything with little substance on discussing scriptures with possible different viewpoints.
As a man who searches the depth of a matter, discussing set answers is never going to cut it for me. So feel free to make a point at a time and discuss why this view is wrong with good evidence. I will be all ears. But posts that list a creed or large writing, I am not going to read myself. Not sure what others think, but I know that long-winded posts generally get ignored by many. They are just too hard to answer because an answer is nearly always much bigger than a question.
November 9, 2014 at 2:23 am#782872
Proclaimer
Participant
Again, a couple of your points I have randomly chose to answer.
- THAT MARK IS ABOUT BUYING OR SELLING. TRADE AND COMMERCE, JOBS.
  It is entirely possible that the Middle East could become an Islamic Caliphate whereby to show your allegiance to Allah and Sharia Law, you wear some kind of mark, number, and name of the Mahdi. It could even be technological device requiring scanners. At the moment, ISIS asks people what their view is. What religion they belong to. Upon the wrong answer (according to them) you are captured and taken away to be killed by beheading if you are a Christian or Jew and usually shot if you are a Shia. Even a headdress would be more efficient than that.
- THAT MARK MUST BE PHYSICAL FOR THE TRADERS TO SEE, AND GIVE THE OK TO BUY OR SELL.
  Okay I think I answered that above. Bear in mind that asking people what they believe and killing them for the wrong answer is inefficient. Some kind of physical mark may well be instituted to recognise those who swear allegiance to the Beast. There are a number of eschatological views that have compelling answers as to what the mark is. This view could be something like a physical mark, something worn around the head, or some technological device such as a chip that shows others whose side you are on. Could be as simple as “Allah is great” or the name of ‘Allah’ somehow being displayed around the head or on the hand. Something that shows others whose side you are on. Such people would then be afforded the ability to live in society. When I think about it, the way to flush our those who are not of your view is to institute a law that requires this for trading. Without it you would soon starve to death. Either way, take the mark and live now, but die for eternity later. Or refuse it and die now in the hope of eternal life.
November 9, 2014 at 3:22 am#782877
terraricca
Participant
t8
good post ,and we also have to consider the time line where those events take place
November 9, 2014 at 5:00 am#782879
Wakeup
Participant
t8.
The reason that my mind is set because it is in harmony with scriptures, and therefore a I can not change.
That would be the wrong thing to do. Until one can come up with solid scriptures to proof me wrong.
Then, I will definitely change. So far no one can come up with scriptures to proof me wrong.
I go, and judge by the scriptures. We all should judge by the scriptures; not opinion, and innuendos.
That is what the Word of God is for; to follow it, and go by it, and stick to it.
To wander off is a big mistake.
Can you answer EACH of these questions truthfully please. Or anyone.
1.Do you truly believe that the 7th beast is isis? (Explain the 10 horns)?(or any horn of isis today)?
2 Do you truly believe that isis will morph into the new revived ottoman? (with 10 horns)?
3.Do you truly believe that the world can not make war with the(beast), revived ottoman?.
4.Do you truly believe that the micro chip technology is specifically created for the muslems.
5.Do you truly believe that mecca only will be destroyed at the second coming.
6 Do you truly believe that the grapes put through the wine press would be only muslems.
7.Will the valley of Hinnom consist of only dead muslem soldiers?
8.What is your opinion regarding the British, Americans, Europeans, French, Russians. Chinese, Japanese?
Will they be subdued by the coming revived ottoman empire?
Because the scripture says: He will stamp the residue with his feet.
Rev 11 says: Jerusalem will be trodden by the gentiles for 3/half years. Will that be by the muslems?
Can anyone answer those questions in truth, and straight to the point?
Shalom.
wakup.
November 9, 2014 at 5:33 am#782880
terraricca
Participant
hi wakeup
i going to ask you one question ;and if you apply it you may see the true light ;
from all your explanations you give ;please remove your ideas,thoughts,and opinions ;and please then tell me or show us what is left ,
can you do that ?
November 9, 2014 at 6:22 am#782882
Wakeup
Participant
Signs Can be deceiving and lead one astray from the truth if those signs are not
in harmony with signs given in scriptures.
Satan has given us many signs to lead us astray from the true signs; given in scripture.
Many have come up with signs and all proven wrong.
The true signs to look for is given in scripture.
Do not look for signs outside the word of God.
I will leave out some verses to make it short as possible.
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
THIS IS A WARNING.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
MANY SHALL COME; THE MANY ARE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS PREAHING CHRIST. NOT MUSLEMS.
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
NOTE; NATIONS AGAINST NATIONS; KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOMS.(NOT A BUCH OF REBBELS).
Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
BE HATED OF ALL NATIONS; NOT ONLY MUSLEM NATIONS. THERE ARE MANY GOD HATERS AMONGST US.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
THESE PROPHETS ARE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS DECEIVING CHRISTIANS,NOT MUSLEMS DECEIVING CHRISTIANS.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
THE DOME HAS BEEN STANDING THERE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS? AND WHAT?
CHRIST WAS SPEAKING OF THE LAST DAYS. THE TIME OF THE END. THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED BY THE APOSTLES.(VERSE 3).
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
THE DOME IS THERE; ARE WE OR ISRAEL, TO FLEE?
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
GREAT TRIBULATION AS NEVER BEFORE AND WILL EVER BE AFTER.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
THOSE DAYS WILL BE SHORTENED,OR **ALL** WILL BE KILLED. ALL; INCLUDING MUSLEMS.
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
MANY SO CALLED CHRISTIANS HAVE DONE THIS. THEY HAVE DONE MUCH HARM TO THEIR FLOCK.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
YES, ALL FALSE SIGS,TO DECEIVE THE MANY.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
ALL WITH EARS MUST LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS, NOT WHAT SOME OTHER SAYS,WHO IS REALLY YOUR LORD?
ONE CAN NOT SERVE TWO MASTERS.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
HE SAID; BELIEVE IT NOT. DO NOT FOLLOW FALSE SIGN; FOLLOW TRUE SIGN WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
THESE ARE THE TRUE SIGNS TO WATCH FOR,AND TO TAKE NOTE OF.
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
THESE ARE THE TRUE SIGNS THAT CAN NOT LIE.NO FALSE PROPHET CAN SHOW THIS SIGN.
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
FOLLOW THOSE SIGNS AND YOU WILL NOT BE DECEIVED. AND YOU KNOW HE IS AT THE DOOR. THEN LOOK UP.
Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
THIS IS ANOTHER GOOD SIGN. BUT TOO LATE FOR THE MAJORITY.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
LABOUR SO YOU WOULD BE TAKEN,NOT LEFT.
Matthew 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
THE SERVANT FOUND SEEKING AND WATCHING; HE IS BLESSED.
Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
MANY SERVANTS SAY ,HE WILL COME IN ANOTHER HUNDRED YEARS.THE COMING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO.
LETS JUST EAT AND DRINK AND BE MERRY. DONT TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY. DONT GET OBSESSED BY IT.
Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
THOSE HYPOCRITES OUT THERE THINK THEY WILL GET SAVED, NO, THEY WILL COP IT. THAT IS WHAT JESUS SAID.
Sorry I had to use caps do’n’t know to do colours.
wakeup.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Admin.
November 9, 2014 at 6:48 am#782884
Wakeup
Participant
Terra.
No, what I want you to do is proof that it is all my own idea, and opinions.
Intil you can do that, I will follow and stick to the scriptures.
I will only change my interpretations if some one can come, and proof me wrong.
I am holding tight to the written Word, no one can take me away from it.
Not even the devil himself can.
I am waiting for you or anyone to come; not with stones, but with scriptural proof.
I know some hate to hear the truth, because it is not in them.
wakeup.
November 9, 2014 at 6:54 am#782885
Wakeup
Participant
Terra.
Instead of ranting and making noises.
Why don’t you truthfully answer those questions. Why?
wakeup.
November 10, 2014 at 12:21 am#782924
Proclaimer
Participant
On the contrary Wakeup, signs are not deceiving. They are very important. We are told to watch and people have been rebuked for missing the signs.
WE KNOW THAT THE OTTOMAN IS NOT THE LAST, BECAUSE IT IS NOT HERE. IT IS THE PAST.
You only say this because you have believed for so long that the last empire is yet to come. When the prophecy was given, it was yet to come. It came, it reigned the Middle East and parts of Europe for 500 years or so. It was Islamic which is of a religion that denies the son the very sign of an antichrist.
Now it looks like the Beast that died is coming back to life. An Islamic Caliphate (empire) has already been declared, it is called the Islamic State. However it plays out, this empire is rising again. Whether Iran defeats ISIS or not, the signs in this part of the world are significant. When all the kings were removed, I posed the question, what will take its place. What will be revealed. My answer was an Islamic Empire and this is now what is happening.
Wakeup, the danger of subscribing to a theology and ignoring signs is you can be left behind. You can miss important events. We are told to watch and we are told that we will know the season but not the day or hour. We know because we see the signs.
November 10, 2014 at 4:53 am#782926
terraricca
Participant
wakeup
Terra.
Instead of ranting and making noises.
Why don’t you truthfully answer those questions. Why?
wakeup.
go back a few years and you will see we have discuss this and I have answered those questions ,
November 10, 2014 at 4:57 am#782928
terraricca
Participant
t8
on Islam ,you can also add that it was the image of the Catholic roman empire religion at the time of Muhammad ,the Islamic way was the same way as well to convert people with a sword,Eradicate all opposition ,
November 10, 2014 at 9:51 am#782943
Proclaimer
Participant
Yes Terr, there are many ways we can view these things. While I still think Mystery Babylon could be Rome and in particular the Vatican, they do teach that Jesus is the son of God while Islam rejects it. On that basis alone, Islam is the Antichrist of the two. But yes, the Vatican has been a significant player in history and has certainly martyred many believers and has spread her false doctrines to the ends of the Earth making her subjects drunk.
Mystery Babylon is the mother of false religions and both Islam and Roman Catholicism teach false things to the masses. They may both be daughters of Babylon.
November 10, 2014 at 10:24 am#782944
Wakeup
Participant

First of all; I never said to ignore signs.
What I said was follow the signs in the scriptures. not signs given by the world.
How can the 8th muslem empire morph out of the 7th,muslem empire, if there is no 7th.muslem empire?
There must not be a gap; what more a gap of 500years.
There is no gap in the image of Daniel, it is continues. From the legs right down to the feet without any break.
Can you name the 7th muslem empire today? No you can not. Because there is none.
But we know that the british empire is here today. The 8th has to come out of this last empire, not of one that was 500years dormant.
Do you deny that the british is an empire? And is here? Not any past empires. But an existing empire.

wakeup.
November 10, 2014 at 10:30 am#782945
Wakeup
Participant
t8.

Can you please answer those eight questions in follow order?

wakeup.
November 10, 2014 at 11:07 am#782955
Camillia
Participant
Camillia.
Thank you.can you state the ones that you can not agree with?
Perhaps I could clarify them.

Wakeup. You just had some good points, and I liked that post, but there are things I would not agree with which we have been over before.
I do not believe Islam is the beast of revelation. They are far too weak to fulfill the picture revelations paints of the end-time world dominant beast.
The question we should ask our self is: what power dominates us on the other side of the world (because the whole world will follow the beast it says). Islam definitely no. imo.

November 10, 2014 at 11:29 am#782961
terraricca
Participant
t8
I have kept my distance of those things ,for it seems to me that the entire book of revelation seems to deal with one thing ,by on the other hand that one thing seem to be entangled with it ;
for it is first the kingdom of God that has to be viewed and all others are the objects of preventing that kingdom to flourish,
through all the ages from Christ until now their is no change ,but the people are still coming out of the world and submit themselves to God through Christ ;what in reality is the fulfillment of the prophecy ;Dan 2;44
and we still waiting for the number of the saved ones to be completed so that God can move to the new age ,or next sequence ;
but the rest of revelation is to point out what the world does to prevent those who wishes to come in the kingdom ,
if we look at revelation and at Christ parables of the kingdom it will tell as much more ,just a thought
November 10, 2014 at 11:57 am#782967
Proclaimer
Participant
What I said was follow the signs in the scriptures. not signs given by the world.
The very signs we are talking about are in the world. The Beast, Antichrist, False prophet, etc, are all of this world.
Scripture has highlighted things that take place in the world beforehand so we will not be deceived.
So I repeat and reinforce what I said to you before. I am watching for signs and there certainly appear to be many today. Things can happen to change a persons view forever. Be open and teachable. God did not reveal every detail in the past. Much information coming to light coupled with scripture will show us how we are to respond during this wicked age. Do not underestimate signs they will tell you what season we are in.
November 10, 2014 at 12:14 pm#782971
Wakeup
Participant
Camillia.

I agree with your view.
The image in Daniel has no gaps in it.
After the two legs there was the two feet with no gap in between.
It is continues. The 7th empire must be here to morph into the 8th empire,which is the last kingdom of man on earth.
The 8th will rule only for 3/half years, the shortest empire ever(the 10 toes). Then the second coming.
Plus; the 7th and the 8th had 10 horns.
Can not put the faulty puzzle in by force.
Cheers.
wakeup.
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Seven Gentile Empires

Introduction

The Islamic Beast Eschatological View

The AntiChrist

Who conquered the Roman Beast?

More proof for the identity of the seventh kingdom

The seven kingdoms

The Beast receives a deadly wound

What about a revived Roman Empire instead of an Islamic Caliphate

Iron mixed with clay

The Mark of the Beast

The abomination that causes desolation

Who is beheading the Christians?

Who worships the dragon?

Who has declared war against the most terrible of nations?

The Mahdi as the Antichrist

Both are military leaders

Both are stout

Both sign seven year treaties

Both change laws and times

Both target Christians, Jews, Israel, and Jerusalem

Both honor a god of force/strongholds/war

Both do not honor the desire of woman

The False prophet

The Bible and the Quran

The role of the Trinity

Facts to consider

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Seven Gentile Empires

Introduction

The Islamic Beast Eschatological View

The AntiChrist

Who conquered the Roman Beast?

More proof for the identity of the seventh kingdom

The seven kingdoms

The Beast receives a deadly wound

What about a revived Roman Empire instead of an Islamic Caliphate

Iron mixed with clay

The Mark of the Beast

The abomination that causes desolation

Who is beheading the Christians?

Who worships the dragon?

Who has declared war against the most terrible of nations?

The Mahdi as the Antichrist

Both are military leaders

Both are stout

Both sign seven year treaties

Both change laws and times

Both target Christians, Jews, Israel, and Jerusalem

Both honor a god of force/strongholds/war

Both do not honor the desire of woman

The False prophet

The Bible and the Quran

The role of the Trinity

Facts to consider

Recent Replies

TOPICS

Forums

Forum Topics

POPULAR WRITINGS

Study Tools

ABOUT THIS SITE

Navigation

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