Upon this rock, Jesus Christ built his Church

Balancing Rock Girraween

For many Christian denominations, the foundation of their faith is usually a version of the Trinity Doctrine in some form. But is this doctrine really the true foundation of the Church? Let’s take a look at the actual foundation that Jesus Christ built his Church on.

Matthew 16:13-18
13 Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 They said, “Some say You are John the Baptist and some say Elijah and others say Jeremiah or one of the early preachers.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of Jonah, you are happy because you did not learn this from man. My Father in heaven has shown you this.
18 “And I tell you that you are Peter. On this rock I will build My church. The powers of hell will not be able to have power over My church.

Read the above clearly. Jesus did not build his Church on Peter. He built it on the truth that Peter spoke concerning the true identity of Jesus Christ. And what was that truth? That Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ.

Peter did not say that Jesus was God or one member of a triune God, yet that is the foundation for many. So what is it that tries to fight against the true foundation? Is it not the Gates of Hell that is trying to prevail against this truth. But for what benefit is there to attack the true foundation of the Church, which is the Body of Christ?

Here is the thing. Roman Catholics believe that the foundation was Peter and this is where their line of Popes supposedly comes from. They also believe that the foundation of their faith is the Trinity Doctrine. Not only are they wrong, but their fruit over the centuries proves that this tree was not good.

So which is it? The Catholic faith or the true faith?

Many do not realise that they side with the Catholic faith. However, it is true that this faith and foundation cannot sustain eternally any work built upon her.

For they labour in vain those who build on another foundation.

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 8:6: for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

He also wrote in Ephesians 4:5-6: one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

And Jesus said it so clearly in John 17:3: Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Are you willing to believe the truth about who God is and who Jesus is over any contrary tradition that was passed down to you?

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  • #803035
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8……BY MAN CAME SIN AND BY THE “MAN” JESUS CHRIST IT WAS PAID FOR, I HAVE “NOTHING” AGAINST JESUS, THE CHRIST who died for my sins, but the world, as well as you, DOES NOT RECONIZE GOD THE FATHER WHO WAS “IN” JESUS RECONCILING THE WORLD CREATED TO “HIMSELF”. What you believe completely DESTORY’S the work of GOD “BEING DONE “IN” THE “MAN” JESUS CHRIST, BY HIS ANOINTING SPIRIT. YOUR BELIFS MAGNIFY JESUS, AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FATHER, JESUS is a man , he said he was around 80 times or so, those ARE NOT my words, But his, and where did i ever say he is “JUST” A MAN. He’s a MAN who GOD THE FATHER USED FOR A SPECIAL PURPOSE, and that purpose was to fulfill GOD THE FATHERS, PLAN FOR ALL HUMANITY to reconcile us back to him. In him is GOD’S purpose for us all, i hardly think that is saying he is “just” a man, he is a man, but a particularly “IMPORTANT” man. In him is all of our destiney, if you can see it. IMO

    T8, YOU STILL HAVE NOT COME OUT OF “ALL” THE FALSE TEACHINGS ABOUT JESUS YET. IF YOU CAN’T SEE HIM AS A HUMAN BEING YOU SIMPLY DO NOT SEE HIM, NOR HOW HE RELATES TO US ALL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

    #803041
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Again, no one is denying that God was in Christ. God can after all be in us too, so this part of your post is moot.

    John 1:10
    He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

    See how you do not recognise Jesus Christ.

    If you say the world was not made through him, then you obviously do not recognise him. You are as blind like the world is as to who he is.

    Many people in the world believe in a Jesus Christ. Some say he didn’t exist, but of those in the world who believe he did exist, they have varying views. Accroding to some he was a madman, a good man, a muslim, still others say that he was a reincarnated soul,  and some say he was a historical figure. The world has many views about him. But he is the one that God made the world through. You do not recognise him as being the agent by which God made the cosmos. That is what John is saying to you.

    Why is Jesus the one by whom God redeemed creation? Because he is the very agent by which he made everything, whether thrones, powers, people, or the physical realm.

    #803058
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8….. IT IS “NOT” A MOOT POINT, The “HE” being mentioned there was GOD THE FATHER, IT WAS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST. Everyone who saw JESUS RECONIZED HIM, THEY DID NOT RECONIZE GO THE FATHER , WHO CAME TO HIS OWN PEOPLE “IN” JESUS,

    Tell me this T8, “WHO” do you see actually speaking?, in LUK 13:34 AND Joh 2:10, was it GOD THE FATHER, OR JESUS ? Can you see it was the FATHER SPEAKING THROUGH JESUS’ MOUTH FIRST PERSON?, You or no one else has produced one place IN THE OLD TESTEMENT where there was any ACTUAL activity of JESUS shown in scripture before his berth on this earth.

    SCRIPTURE SAYS, God who in times past spoke to us through the prophets, has in these ladder days spoken to us through a SON. SO THIS IS HARDLY A MOOT POINT. That is who they and you do not seem to reconize . IMO

    EVEN the apostles did not recognize GOD IN JESUS, that is why he had to keep telling them over and over the Father was “IN” HIM, finally Thomas got it when he said “My lord “AND” MY GOD”. Do you really see that GOD THE FATHER WAS IN CHRIST JESUS? Jesus said if you don’t believe the Father is “in” me then believe in the miricals, he said that because only GOD COULD DO THOSE MIRACLES, and he wanted to RELATE to them how GOD THE FATHER, who was “IN” him was doing those mircales.

    What you are doing T8, is robbing GOD AND PAYING JESUS. Like the saying goes rob PETER AND PAY PAUL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene

    #803059
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Terricca……..The kingdom of God is not physically setup on this earth yet, that will not happen till Jesus returns with great power, and that is what was being mentioned there in Daniel brother, all the kingdoms of this world and there ties to the past will be desolved at his return. That is the stone that will smite the remittances of beast and completely destory it, brother. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene

    #803061
    kerwin
    Participant

    to all,

    Rock is a symbol and like any other symbol it can be used in multiple instances to mean multiple things. Claiming that because the symbol rock means one thing in one passage means it has to mean the same thing in another passage is flawed reasoning. Scripture is not based on flawed reasoning as Jesus did not lie when he stated Scripture is not broken.

    From the context the rock Jesus is speaking of is belief faith that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the living God”.

    Matthew 16:15-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    #803062
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8….. IT IS “NOT” A MOOT POINT, The “HE” being mentioned there was GOD THE FATHER, IT WAS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST. Everyone who saw JESUS RECONIZED HIM, THEY DID NOT RECONIZE GO THE FATHER , WHO CAME TO HIS OWN PEOPLE “IN” JESUS,

    Sorry Gene, regardless of what that verse is saying, no one here has concluded that God was not in Christ. No one said that. You are the one who said it.

    #803063
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    It is better to not put words in other people’s mouths as that is a false witness.

    We all believe that God was in Christ redeeming the world to himself. I personally have never said otherwise.

    This truth renders much of you last posts above as useless within the context of the topic at hand.

    #803065
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I believe you are absolutely correct in your last post kerwin.

    Also your last post I believe is also correct Gene.

    Wow. Double happy.

    #803069
    terraricca
    Participant

    Gene

    Terricca……..The kingdom of God is not physically setup on this earth yet, that will not happen till Jesus returns with great power, and that is what was being mentioned there in Daniel brother, all the kingdoms of this world and there ties to the past will be desolved at his return. That is the stone that will smite the remittances of beast and completely destory it, brother. IMO

    first Jesus receive all the powers from his father before he was lifted up to heaven ;Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    Paul also confirm this ;Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
    Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

    when Jesus return it means that our time and space is over and changes will be coming according to God’s will ,in Daniel 2;44 it talks about a rock that comes from a mountain ;we know the mountain is God mountain ,the rock we know is Christ that came down from the father ,this happen at Jesus conception by the power of God ,when the appointed time came, Jesus present himself to John the Baptist to start the full fulfillment of all the scriptures regarding the Christ /anointed one ,to prove that he was the one that was to come to save the remnant of Israel ,and by this action God set up a kingdom (believers)for himself by destroying all others (non believers),pictured by the statue describe in Daniel ,it says that those king will remain for a while but their destruction will happen(in time) and their powers removed(this as already happen) ,this became all true after Jesus death,what the scriptures did not say is how long would it take from beginning to the end of it all ,but clues were given ,

    so the rock in Daniel will not fall at the end for he has fallen in the setup of the kingdom (Da 2:44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.) and as always progressed to the end /to the wrath of God for the unbelievers ,

    why is it said IN THE TIME OF THOSE (MEANING ALL OF THEM) FOR SINCE THE BEGINNING ALL FOLLOWING KING ARE TAKING THINGS FROM THE PREVIOUS ONES ,

    NOW THIS IS MY QUESTION TO YOU ;WHY IS THIS SAID ;”It(KINGDOM OF GOD) will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end,

    #803072
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    St.Paul declared that rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Christ,and Christ preexisted in many forms but has been reincarnate in these last days as a Son for us.

    #803077
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    AndrewAD…….Your getting the christo’s, mixed up with the man Jesus the CHRISTO’S , THE ANOINTING OF GOD WAS IN ALL THE LEADERS OF ISREAL IN THE WILDERNESS AND IT DID FOLLOW THEM. No scripture say that that anointing was JESUS. That is an assumption all have who believe Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.

    peace and love to you an yours. ………..gene

    #803082
    942767
    Participant

    The rock is the foundation upon which the church is being built. It is the Word of God that came to us by Jesus Christ and the Apostles that is why the Lord includes the Apostle Peter, when the Father revealed to them that he was the Christ the Son of the Living God, and “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”.

    Here is another scripture pertaining to the foundation.

    1 Co. 3:

    9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

    10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

    11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #803090
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Marty……..Right on, the power that builds the church is the power of God the Father to get into the minds of those he calls and reaveal the truth to them, he is the “ROCK”, Jesus was refering to. When he said ” UPON “THIS” ROCK, I SHALL BUILD THE CHURCH AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAL AGAINST IT”.

    peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene

    #803091
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Dear Gene,

    St Paul declared Christ to be the rock and St. Matthew and Jesus declared St. Peter and his declaration of faith to be the rock.The name Peter as you well know means rock.He was no longer that Simon but rather Peter,and Jesus nor Paul called the Father a rock.

    As for the preexistence of Christ you must explain away many verses by St.John, St.Paul and others to deny it.I did for awhile think like you do about this through the teachings of Dr.Buzzard and others but imo it doesn’t stand well,while according to many verses in the synoptics it does stand well.

    All blessings to thee and thine as well.

    #803098
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Andrew AD, your post is what I would have posted if you had not.

    There are a number of instances of the word ‘rock’ in scripture. Saying that they all mean the Father or the son has to be incorrect. Peter was a rock too, albeit more of a stone. Additionally, we are all like rocks being shaped to fit into the building not made by human hands.

    #803102
    942767
    Participant

    Hi AndrewAD:

    You say:

    St.Paul declared that rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Christ,and Christ preexisted in many forms but has been reincarnate in these last days as a Son for us.

     

    But this is the scripture:

    1 Corinthians 10King James Version (KJV)

    10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    And so, the scripture does not say that Christ followed them in the desert, but that they which preceded Christ drank of the same spiritual drink that followed them (that is Christ came into existence after they did). The spiritual drink is the “Word of God”. They that were under Moses were given the Law, the Ten Commandments. Jesus stated that he came to fulfill the Law, and obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #803110
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…….There is only ONE true rock. And that is GOD THE FATHER, the word CHRIST, means anointing, and that anointing is of GOD and was on Moses and the seventy elders of Israel, that anointing was also on THE MAN JESUS, the anointed or messiah of GOD. THE WORD CHRIST does not always mean the man Jesus. That anointing or christos was the holy spirit of GOD. IT FOLLOWED AND LEAD ISRAEL IN THE WILDERNESS, it’s what lead Jesus and it also leads the childern of God. Jesus had a ROCK, and it was not himself, we need to have that same “ROCK” he had. IMO

    T8 scripture also say that God is the “only” ROCK. Psa 18:31, Psa 62:2 and 6 ,Deu 32:3-6, 2 Sa 22:32, AND on and on it goes,

    pease and love to you and yours. …………..gene

    #803111
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Dear Marty,

    Yes Paul does say the Rock that followed them was Christ. He doesn’t say the rock was the law or the ten commandments.

    Paul talks about “the law’ quite a bit in his letters as well as Christ and contrasts them in many ways,so why do you try to say he meant the rock that followed them was the law or as you say”the word of God”? If Paul meant the law in this instance he would’ve plainly said so.

    #803146
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    TO ALL…..Jesus said he could do “nothing of HIMSELF” the FATHER who was “IN” HIM, “HE” DID THE WORK. The Father was the “ROCK” Jesus himself, trusted in and told us to also. IMO

    peace and love to you all and yours. ……………gene

    #803147
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    You are confusing the symbol of a rock used in one passage with the same symbol used in another.

    God is the rock of the people before and after Jesus’ church came to be. There was no reason to lay that foundation again in order to build the church. Peter expressed his faith the Jesus is the Christ, the chief Son of the Living God. For that Jesus named him the rock. Even though he bears the name of the rock Peter is not the rock upon Jesus builds his church nor is God, who is the foundation that already was laid. The rock that the church is built on is faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. If no faith in God then no Jesus Christ. If no faith in Jesus Christ then no church.

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