The Trinity Doctrine is an unnecessary stumbling block

In scripture we never read about people preaching the Trinity or insisting that people believe it in order to have true faith in God.

Over the centuries many Christians have diverged and insisted that people believe in the Trinity as the foundation of true faith in God. While this belief indeed is the Roman Catholic Faith, Christians should never make this doctrine a requirement as it only proves to alienate people from the way.

In scripture we are told that stumbling blocks are inevitable, but woe to the them that lay them. Think about it, if you insist on this doctrine and it keeps a person from receiving the son of God, then you have contributed to blocking the way of salvation to that person.

We should be wise and stick to teaching what is written. God sent his son into the world to save men. He died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right-hand of God and interceding for us. This is written.

Keep it simple. Simplicity in Christ. He is the son of the living God, the messiah, and the one whom God made Lord. There is no point in insisting on things that are not written, especially if they become the deal breaker from them receiving the son of God.

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Viewing 20 posts - 661 through 680 (of 907 total)
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  • #818728
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @jael

    Challenge accepted!

    In Isaiah 8, Jehovah is prophecying to Isaiah about Jehovah of hosts who is going to be the stone of stumbling. This ‘Jehovah of hosts’ is identified by Peter as Jesus in 1 Peter 2.

    Isaiah 8:12-15
    11 Jehovah spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,
    12 Say ye not, A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people shall say, A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be in dread thereof .
    13 Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
    14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
    15 And many shall stumble thereon, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

    1 Peter 2
    6 For in Scripture it says:
    “See, I lay a stone in Zion,
    a chosen and precious cornerstone,
    and the one who trusts in him
    will never be put to shame.”
    7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
    “The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone,”
    8 and,
    “A stone that causes people to stumble
    and a rock that makes them fall.”

    You, Jael, also stumble over this stone. You do not understand Jesus/Yeshua as the Jehovah of Hosts from Isaiah 8:13.

     

    #818729
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @jael

    Jael, you asked me this:

    LU, ‘Jesus… First works of The Father.’!

    Where do you get that from in the Scriptures?

    Are you saying that GOD made Jesus?

    If you would read my post correctly, t8 was speaking about that and I was asking him to show us where he specifically got that thought so that I could address it.

    Fyi, I do not believe that the Father made Jesus. I believe that the Father begat Jesus who always existed.

    #818730
    Jael
    Participant

    LU, ‘The Father begat Jesus who always existed’!!!

    What an amazing concept…

    Lu, you are adding impossible none sense to human reproduction.

    Your thoughts are so mixed up you are forced to Create even greater mixed up thoughts to cover the first… This is reminiscent of compromised concepts (basically, trying to cover one mis-invention by yet another – and mismatched – mis-invention!)

    This inevitably leads to the ‘snake biting its own tail’, viz: If Jesus already EXISTED as an eternal being, how could he be then created?

    Lu, you seem incapable of letting go of the tail you have just bitten – your own!!

    Lu, where is your creative support from scriptures that shows where Jesus was existing as an eternally unborn baby in God and yet always existed as a fully formed ‘GOD’ inside ALMIGHTY GOD: the Father?

    In your response please include your definition of the TITLE ‘GOD’ and the difference between the Father, who Jesus states is ‘The ONLY TRUE GOD’, …The Almighty God…, and Jesus, who is called ‘Lord’.

    (I’m not after a thesis, just an understanding of where you are going wrong with your ideas: basically, you cannot explain with truth who Almighty God is with reference to Jesus as Lord unless you become creative with your mis-conceptions)

    #818731
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @jael

    I have shown you where the Son is called the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning. Therefore, He always existed.

    I have shown you that begetting does not necessarily mean created but merely bringing something forth from one place to another. Nothing can be brought forth from one place to another unless it already existed in the first place.

    I have shown you where the Son says that He has come out of the Father.

    He is called the Firstborn over all creation who was used to create all things through. Therefore, He must have come out of the Father before creation.

    I have shown you that He has been identified as YHVH of hosts.

    You do know that the Son is called the Lord of lords…YHVH is the Lord of lords. YHVH is the God of gods. The Father is God, the Son is Lord. Put it together.

    Do you not see that the Son is worshiped and receives the same glory, honor and praise as the Father in Rev.5?

    Perhaps the reason this all seems so amazing to you is because you have not let this concept of ‘true Son’ pierce your heart.

    Think about it…God is YHVH and YHVH = The God of gods + The Lord of lords. That is two who are one. Can two perfects be any less than one in spirit, purpose or essence? NO! If they were not one in spirit, purpose and essence, they would cease from being perfect.

    Please read this thoughtfully before you respond. Think it through. You put a lot of words down that I never have used. For instance, I have never referred to the Son as an unborn baby within God the Father. I have used the term ‘offspring’ though, who was eternally within the Father and then begotten from the Father.

    Is the Father less than perfect? NO

    Is the Son less than perfect? NO

    There you have two who are perfect in every way, both having the highest essence. One is the offspring from within the other. How did the Son get there? The same way the Father got there…they always were. This is beyond explainable.

     

    #818733
    Jael
    Participant

    LU, thank you for as much as you just said… I now fully understand your delusion.

    But what happened to response to the part where I asked you to define the title  ‘GOD’ and who is ALMIGHTY GOD if Jesus is only ‘Lord’?

    #818734
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @jael

    The true God is defined as YHVH and YHVH is the God of gods and the Lord of lords.

    #818737
    Jael
    Participant

    So, Lu…

    Who is ALMIGHTY GOD?

    Who is ‘The ONLY TRUE GOD’?

    #818738
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @jael

    YHVH

    #818741
    Jael
    Participant

    Yes, Lu. Jesus said that the only way to gain eternal life was to believe (and believing means complying with the commandments and doctrine of God that he brought from the almighty God: the Father) in his ‘father, the only true God, and Jesus, the Christ’.

    Lu, do you believe that the Father, is that ‘Only True God’: YHWH?

    And do you believe in Jesus, ‘The Christ of God Almighty’?

    #818742
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Yes, Jael, I believe that the Father is the only true God, YHVH,  together with the Son and their Spirit.

    I believe that the Son is Jesus Christ from within the unity of the Almighty God.

    #818743
    Jael
    Participant

    Oh, and by the way… The Stone…

    You say the stone talked about was Christ Jesus.

    What is the meaning of the name, ‘Peter’?

    Is it not ‘The Stone’??

    So what would be your conclusion now: that Peter, was  Christ Jesus? Or that ‘the Stone’ previously and afterwards mentioned was Peter, the Apostle?

    Afterall, wasn’t there a mention of Peter being the foundation (stone) of the oniony church?

    #818744
    Jael
    Participant

    LU, you cannot say that the Father is the only true God … ‘Together with….’.

    It is clear that you are realising your grave error. I urge you to consider deeply the ideas you are obviously misappropriating as your ideology.

    ‘together with THEIR SPIRITS’?

    lu, schoolgirl error. Now there are SIX ALMIGHTIESaccording to your floundering ideas:

    1) The Father…

    2) The Son…

    3) The Holy Spirit…

    4) The spirit of (1)

    5) The Spirit of (2)

    6) The Spirit of (3)

    Oh dear!

    In addition, there are others who are called ‘GOD’ – Can you name any of them?

    #818745
    Jael
    Participant

    LU, you said that Jesus said he ‘came out of the Father.’

    Is my English bad or were the words, ‘I came out FROM the Father.’

    Jesus stated that he was taught by the Father… that he could do or say nothing except what he saw and heard the Father tell him.

    You say Jesus was that Same Almighty God: YHWH, yet Jesus had to WAIT to be taught, WAIT to see that which was the fathers words and deeds. How does this demonstrate Jesus as ALMIGHTY YAHWEH?

    Did Jesus BECOME MIGHTY YAHWEH by being taught by YAHWEH?

    (Caution!! These are leading questions!! Oh did Idaho that!!)

    As a child, Jesus ‘Grew in stature (power) and wisdom (knowledge) [concerning Almighty God: Yahweh: the Father]’.

    Can anyone teach Almighty God?

    Oh, Lu, the Holy Spirit… Do you say IT is a person?

    I read that the holyspirit is the spirit of THE FATHER: The Spirit of Almighty GOD’. It is ‘THE FATHER’S SPIRIT:

    ‘I will put MY SPIRIT ON HIM’, says Yahweh.

    #818746
    Jael
    Participant

    Please, Lu, in your response to my last question please relate it to prophecy in Isaiah 42:1 and the timely realisation in Matthew 12: 17-21.

    Who is the prophecy about and who confirmed that prophecy at the latter time?

    #818748
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jael , your mind is racing. Slow down and find that most pressing question that you want to ask me and then I will address it here. Until then, I will pick a question of yours and address it in the one on one discussion thread that I made to keep my answers collected in a more comprehensive manner, if and when I have time.

    Thanks!

    #818753
    Jael
    Participant

    No,Lu: this thread is where I desire to see the responders show their ideologies and theologies concerning the issue raised in the thread question and theology.

    Your thread is where you discuss your questions

    concerning your thread questions and ideology.

    #818755
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jael,

    Please read my last response to you more slowly and respond to what I asked of you in the first part.

    Thank you.

    #818761
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    LU, ‘The Father begat Jesus who always existed’!!!

    I know. Ridiculous for a number of reasons.

    1. It is an oxymoron;
    2. It is a denial of the very definition of ‘begat’;
    3. It is a denial of sonship and fatherhood;
    4. No such concept or language exists in scripture. It is more the realm of Greek philosophy;
    5. It is like saying: “the cold hot” or “the slow speedster”.
    6. Just plain dumb.

    Meddling with perfection does not lead to better than perfection, but less.

    #818777
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @t8

    You are still clueless of the term ‘begat.’ If the act of begetting takes something that exists and moves it to another place, then obviously the actual begetting does not make something come into existence.

    Also, an eternal Father would require the existence of an eternal Son. Without an eternal Son, there would not be an eternal Father.

    The oxymoron is what you seem to believe in…a fatherless, eternal father.  That is what is plain dumb, my friend.

    #818779
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So born, begotten, begat does not mean come into existence?

    The son comes from the Father because he was begotten.

    But your view is that Jesus is an extension of God. Another limb or something.

    Perhaps a substance that contains two persons like the Trinity with one less member.

    But the head of Christ is God and the head of the woman is the man.

    Would you argue that the woman is eternally begotten from the man?

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