The Trinity Doctrine is an unnecessary stumbling block

In scripture we never read about people preaching the Trinity or insisting that people believe it in order to have true faith in God.

Over the centuries many Christians have diverged and insisted that people believe in the Trinity as the foundation of true faith in God. While this belief indeed is the Roman Catholic Faith, Christians should never make this doctrine a requirement as it only proves to alienate people from the way.

In scripture we are told that stumbling blocks are inevitable, but woe to the them that lay them. Think about it, if you insist on this doctrine and it keeps a person from receiving the son of God, then you have contributed to blocking the way of salvation to that person.

We should be wise and stick to teaching what is written. God sent his son into the world to save men. He died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right-hand of God and interceding for us. This is written.

Keep it simple. Simplicity in Christ. He is the son of the living God, the messiah, and the one whom God made Lord. There is no point in insisting on things that are not written, especially if they become the deal breaker from them receiving the son of God.

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June 29, 2016 at 7:04 pm#815363
hoghead1
Participant
Hi, again, t8′
I am saying all three are God, simply because Scripture affirms the Deity of each, though no metaphysical description s to how this could be. I don’t understand your question about the Father. Could you be more specific? What id you mean be referring to the Father of God? I’m interested. I have thought of something like that, but that is another story, and probably what I have thought about isn’t what you meant here, anyway.
June 29, 2016 at 10:03 pm#815366
NickHassan
Participant
Hi hoghead,
The god you offer us is not the God of the bible.

June 30, 2016 at 10:32 am#815374
kerwin
Participant
Hoghead1,
Matthew 19:26 is more and the Koine Greek is a little more vague as like most Koine Greek is implies more than modern English. It essentially states “… in the presence of on the other hand God whole possible.”
You can object to Jesus’ claim because clearly God cannot be tempted by evil but he was well aware of that when he uttered his words. Other objections may be true as well but they are just as absurd in the long run as Jesus did consider that he was saying they were covered in the meaning of his words.
On the other hand I must confess that because time and space existed I do not know what is and is not possible for him except that he cannot be tempted by evil. I am not even sure he lived before time which could be like him from eternity to eternity. I do know he lived before the beginning of creation and the ages of creation but little is said of that “time”. Discussing it is but esoteric and vain speculation.
June 30, 2016 at 10:49 am#815375
kerwin
Participant
Hoghead 1,
Ho do you except the doctrine of the trinity that is full of impossibilities after all in claiming Jesus is God it essentially claims the impossibility that God is tempted by evil and so disagrees with James that claims he cannot be.
To balance that and other ways Jesus is different to God it introduces the impossibility that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human and so put the non-God characteristics on Jesus the human so to claim that Jesus the God posses them despite claiming Jesus Christ does.
These contradictory teachings exist only the support the impossible claim that three Gods are one God. The Hindus and Gnostic’s do it better though both the latter teachings are confusing to me.
June 30, 2016 at 11:38 am#815376
hoghead1
Participant
Hello, Kerwin,
I have no trouble with the notion that God can experience temptation. I could put no faith in a God who didn’t experience temptation. Such a God would never understand us who do feel temptations.
After the Council of Chalcedon, in 451, classical christology centered on the doctrine of the two natures of Christ. Accordingly, Christ has two separate, independent natures. There is his human nature, which can change, experience emotion, suffer, be tempted, etc. There is his divine nature, the God part, which is wholly impassible, cannot change, cannot experience emotion or suffering, etc. For my part, I reject this notion. I think it presents only an aloof, cold, indifferent Deity.
June 30, 2016 at 12:15 pm#815380
hoghead1
Participant
Hello again, Kerwin,
Afraid I don’t get your point here. Also, I am wondering how much background you have in Greek. If you are fluent, that’s one thing. If no, that’s OK. too, but you really have to keep such references down to a minimum. With biblical languages, if you are in for a penny, you are in for a pound.
June 30, 2016 at 12:29 pm#815382
kerwin
Participant
hoghead1,
You do not have to be fluent in Koint Greek to do what little I did as I simply looked up what is written in biblehub.com Interlinear translation and they English synonyms for the Koine Greek words. I wrote down the later though I may have missed subtleties of the actual word it does impart the essential meaning.
June 30, 2016 at 1:03 pm#815384
hoghead1
Participant
Hi, Kerwin,
That’s more or less what I thought you were doing. Well, you can certainly do that kind of thing if you want to. It’s OK. Many do go online for a quick read. But that’s all you a really get: a quick read, nothing really in depth. Also, many online sources really aren’t very reliable, to start with. So it really isn’t a very solid way to go about studying the Greek texts.
June 30, 2016 at 1:07 pm#815385
hoghead1
Participant
Hello, Nick,
As you appear to be taking up a second career as an Apostle of the true faith, I would strongly suggest you do not leave your day job.
June 30, 2016 at 4:46 pm#815389
NickHassan
Participant
Hi hoghead,
Why follow the fools who do not know God and devise nonsense
when the Son has revealed Him and calls you out of tradition to follow him?
June 30, 2016 at 6:05 pm#815390
hoghead1
Participant
Good point, Nick. That’s why I make it a point not to listen to you.
July 1, 2016 at 1:03 am#815398
GeneBalthrop
Participant
headhog1…..Interesting you accuse me and others of using inflammatory wording, seems anyone who opposes you inflames you, and you may be right, but i believe you use that to get out of answering scriptures presented to you, and you seem very comfortable using inflammatory remarks to others like you have just did to Nick, INTERESTING , does the word hypocrite mean anything to you? Are you so much into yourself, that you placed yourself above others here, you come here wanting respect for you, all the while not respecting others, shouldn’t you first get the beam out of your own eye first so you can see clearly to remove tbe splinter from your brothers eye? Remember what we are told, “pride goes before a fall”.
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
July 1, 2016 at 3:17 am#815400
NickHassan
Participant
Hi hoghead,
Yes you have no interest in the truth only an intellectual fascination with the foolish theories of men.
Control is the issue as The Spirit always discomforts those who need to be in control.
Walking that way you will be unlikely to be known of and know God.
July 1, 2016 at 11:14 am#815412
Proclaimer
Participant
I have no trouble with the notion that God can experience temptation. I could put no faith in a God who didn’t experience temptation. Such a God would never understand us who do feel temptations.
What God are you talking about HH. God cannot be tempted.
God
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Son of God
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet he did not sin.
Note the difference between God and Jesus Christ as to temptation. If Jesus is God, then you have a Jesus who cannot be tempted and can be tempted. If Jesus is God you have all kinds of contradictions like that.
July 1, 2016 at 4:46 pm#815432
hoghead1
Participant
Hello again, t8,
What kind of God do I have in mind? A God who is truly omniscient and therefore can empathize with any and all creaturely feeling, feel the feelings in all creatures. When we feel tempted, yes, God also feels that temptation. That doesn’t mean God goes along with us, however. A successful therapist must be able to se the world through the eyes of his or her client. That doesn’t mean, however, the therapist has to agree with the client.
July 1, 2016 at 5:50 pm#815441
NickHassan
Participant
Hi hoghead,
Should we design our own god?
July 2, 2016 at 3:56 am#815450
kerwin
Participant
Hoghead1,
I have to disagree as Lexicons are considered an authority of Koine Greek and Hebrew languages. Biblehub.com like most cites use one compiled from multiple Lexicons that are considered authoritative in the field. Like any work of research it does have it flaws due to various reason though the largest one I find is its poor format as it jams its definitions together. It also has problems with vagueness but that common with other lexicons and dictionaries as well.
The interlinear version for Koine Greek is well done but their version for Hebrew is lacks details I find important.
There commentary is from well known that aged Commentators.
They are Trinitarian and that bias is obvious.
As a source they are about the best quality we are liable to have easy access to.
July 2, 2016 at 10:53 am#815455
hoghead1
Participant
Hi, Kerwin,
If you are not really familiar with biblical languages, then I suggest you don’t try and get into setting up some kind of argument based on the Greek text. Going online and grabbing up something quick from some online site is no way near adequate. The minute I see something like that, I know some amateur has jumped in way over his or her head. Anyhow, you don’t need to go in that direction, to start with. Where you should start is a firm study and reading on the history of the Trinity, carefully noting the biblical references. Short of that, I know of no serious scholar who would even begin to take you seriously. I don’t. That’s not being arrogant, that’s just being practical. Had you taken the time to do a careful study, you would have found that the Trinity is in fact implied in Scripture, which is why it became a central teaching in Christendom. You would have also found there are many problems with teh Trinitarian formulations, true. However, these have to do with finding a suitable metaphysical framework, which the Bible does not provide. Your goal, however, seems to be to demonstrate that the Trinity is not at all in the Bible. That simply is a ridiculous hypothesis, to start with.

July 2, 2016 at 12:18 pm#815458
GeneBalthrop
Participant
hoghead… So implication takes president over fact, interesting formulation you offer. Lets throw away the sound teachings of scriptures for philosphies “implyed”, by trinitarians thelogians. What end does that led to? An acceptience of your Teachings? In your mind You have positioned yourself “over” others, when in fact it only proves you haven’t begun to understand the truth written in our scriptures, IMO.
You might be able to pass yourself off as a “great” trinitarian teacher to those who don’t know the scriptures, as those thousands of confused tritarian sites all over the world are. But here and any unitarian site you will have a tough sale, we have done our research way before you ever dawned here.
peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
July 4, 2016 at 2:11 am#815511
GeneBalthrop
Participant
T8…..While God can’t be tempted by evil, he can be tempted by foolishness according to JESUS’ response to Satan, “you shall not tempt the LORD your God”. So while evil itself can not , perhaps other things can.
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
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