Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

Viewing 20 posts - 401 through 420 (of 25,961 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #51116
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,18:31)
    Hi Oxy,
    That is one approach when what you teach is your own doctrines.
    Another is to check them against what is revealed.
    Then you may learn to abide.
    Our lord told us to.


    Pity you don't take your own advice Nick.

    #51125
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    Do you see any truth in these verses Nick?

    2 Thessalonians 2:10   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  
     2:11   And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:  
     2:12   That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  
     2:13   But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:  

    Joh 9:41  Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.        ???

    #51144
    Unisage
    Participant

    Quote (Oxy @ April 30 2007,21:45)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,14:18)
    Hi CB,
    So you say there are three persons in God and one of them is The Father.
    Then you say all have the office of Father but are unable to show three.
    So the Father is just a a meaningless office to you and God is not a father?
    Actually God is the father of Jesus by His own Spirit.


    Nick, here is a Scripture that might help you.

    Joh 14:26  But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

    If the Holy Spirit and the Father were one and the same, would the Father send Himself?  And would the Father travel under His alter ego, ie the Holy Spirit?

    And if the Holy Spirit is not an identity in His own right, why did Jesus say whom instead of it?

    I have quoted the following Scripture also in the past, but you seem to prefer to put your own interpretation on it.

    Joh 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.

    The Holy Spirit is called He six times in this one verse and these are the words of Jesus.

    He is the Spirit of Truth
    He will come
    He will guide
    He will speak
    He will hear
    He will announce

    What more do you need?


    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?

    #51145
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ May 02 2007,00:44)
    Do you see any truth in these verses Nick?

    2 Thessalonians 2:10   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  
     2:11   And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:  
     2:12   That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  
     2:13   But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:  

    Joh 9:41  Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.        ???


    Hi CB,
    The measure you apply to others will apply to you
    but you teach what is not written.
    What gives?

    #51146
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?

    #51147
    Unisage
    Participant

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,07:24)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?


    The point is simple what you say dont line up with rest of Scriptures.

    Show me a Verse when Jesus died his Human Spirit join with the Divine Spirit.

    Who was in the depth of the Earth? Where was the Father? What happen to the Holy Spirit. And I cant find a verse where a human and a Divine Spirit join togeather.So what happen to the Human Spirit that Jesus has?

    #51150
    Unisage
    Participant

    Oxy

    Who is really the Holy Spirit? Do you think that the Holy Spirit is a Person?

    Then who is Jesus Christ? Is he the same as the Holy Spirit?

    Are you saying that the Father is really the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ?

    But what happen to the Human Spirit of Jesus?

    Does this sound confusion to you? It would make me confused to if I was in the trinity.

    #51154

    Hello

    Since the “Logos” is Spirit!

    Question for the Arian followers, (those who do not have a Trinitarian view).

    How do you reconcile the folowing scriptures from an Arian view?

    Rom 8:
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    1 Cor 3:16
    Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    2 Cor 6:16
    And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    1 Cor 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*.

    Eph 2:18
    For through him we both have access *by one Spirit* unto the Father.

    Eph 4:4
    There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    2 Cor 3:17
    Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty.

    2 Cor 13:5
    Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    Jn 14:16
    And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    Jn 16:7
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    As you can see these scriptures state there is the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit, Spirit of Him, His Spirit, Comforter all gloriously united together as One Spirit, which Paul calls the Spirit of God.

    When someone accepts Jesus into their heart does the Spirit of Christ or God or the Comforter come to live in them?

    How many Spirits do they recieve?

    Blessings!  :)

    #51156
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    Ther Spirit of God in Himself, in Christ and in us, unites us in that ONE SPIRIT

    #51168

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,08:33)
    Hi W,
    Ther Spirit of God in Himself, in Christ and in us, unites us in that ONE SPIRIT


    NH

    “The Spirit of God in himself.”

    Where is this written?

    ???

    #51169
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    God is a spirit being. Do you do agree God has a Spirit? He speaks of it often.

    Jl 2
    ” 28 “And afterward,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your old men will dream dreams,
    your young men will see visions.
    29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
    I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

    So God is speaking here of HIS Spirit which He POURS OUT-From where?

    Did you think God's own spirit was a separate entity from God Himself ? What a bizarre thought. we are told about God and His Spirit and how they relate in a similar way to us in 1 cor 2

    10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    James 2 says about life and spirit relate with us.
    26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    So if you think God does not have a spirit then how are we made in His image?

    #51183
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:33)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,07:24)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?


    The point is simple what you say dont line up with rest of Scriptures.

    Show me a Verse when Jesus died his Human Spirit join with the Divine Spirit.

    Who was in the depth of the Earth? Where was the Father? What happen to the Holy Spirit. And I cant find a verse where a human and a Divine Spirit join togeather.So what happen to the Human Spirit that Jesus has?


    Why don't you show me where I have EVER said that a human spirit has joined up with a divine spirit.

    I think you have confused me with someone else, or you have confused something I've said.

    #51186
    Unisage
    Participant

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,12:20)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:33)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,07:24)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?


    The point is simple what you say dont line up with rest of Scriptures.

    Show me a Verse when Jesus died his Human Spirit join with the Divine Spirit.

    Who was in the depth of the Earth? Where was the Father? What happen to the Holy Spirit. And I cant find a verse where a human and a Divine Spirit join togeather.So what happen to the Human Spirit that Jesus has?


    Why don't you show me where I have EVER said that a human spirit has joined up with a divine spirit.

    I think you have confused me with someone else, or you have confused something I've said.


    This is what you quoted

    Quote
    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die? But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    #51188

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,10:14)
    Hi W,
    God is a spirit being. Do you do agree God has a Spirit? He speaks of it often.

    Jl 2
    ” 28 “And afterward,
          I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
          Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
          your old men will dream dreams,
          your young men will see visions.
    29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
          I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

    So God is speaking here of HIS Spirit which He POURS OUT-From where?

    Did you think God's own spirit was a separate entity from God Himself ? What a bizarre thought. we are told about God and His Spirit and how they relate in a similar way to us in 1 cor 2

    10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    James 2 says about life and spirit relate with us.
    26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    So if you think God does not have a spirit then how are we made in His image?


    NH

    No I dont believe God is Spirit who has a Spirit.

    Where is this written!

    There is “One Spirit”!

    :O

    #51191
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    When God pours of HIS Spirit does He pour another person??

    #51208

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,12:43)
    Hi W,
    When God pours of HIS Spirit does He pour another person??


    NH

    When you drink of the “One Spirit” Who is it that lives in you?

    ???

    #51209
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    The ONE Spirit of God enlivining His Son the Christ,
    and those in Christ's body on earth, making them ONE in HIM.

    #51221
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,12:32)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,12:20)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:33)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,07:24)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?


    The point is simple what you say dont line up with rest of Scriptures.

    Show me a Verse when Jesus died his Human Spirit join with the Divine Spirit.

    Who was in the depth of the Earth? Where was the Father? What happen to the Holy Spirit. And I cant find a verse where a human and a Divine Spirit join togeather.So what happen to the Human Spirit that Jesus has?


    Why don't you show me where I have EVER said that a human spirit has joined up with a divine spirit.

    I think you have confused me with someone else, or you have confused something I've said.


    This is what you quoted

    Quote
    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?


    I said I imagine Jesus, having been resurrected from the dead, was reunited with his spirit. This was not stated as a fact, but rather as a thought, which you seem to have misinterpreted.

    #51222
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,12:35)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,10:14)
    Hi W,
    God is a spirit being. Do you do agree God has a Spirit? He speaks of it often.

    Jl 2
    ” 28 “And afterward,
          I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
          Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
          your old men will dream dreams,
          your young men will see visions.
    29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
          I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

    So God is speaking here of HIS Spirit which He POURS OUT-From where?

    Did you think God's own spirit was a separate entity from God Himself ? What a bizarre thought. we are told about God and His Spirit and how they relate in a similar way to us in 1 cor 2

    10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    James 2 says about life and spirit relate with us.
    26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    So if you think God does not have a spirit then how are we made in His image?


    NH

    No I dont believe God is Spirit who has a Spirit.

    Where is this written!

    There is “One Spirit”!

    :O


    Hi W,
    Is the ONE Spirit the Spirit of God?
    Is this the ONE SPIRIT that filled Christ?
    So does the ONE SPIRIT also include Christ?
    Is Christ the man filled also with himself as Spirit?
    Is this ONE Spirit a person in God?
    Is this person in God also the Spirit of God?
    Was Christ filled with three as one Spirit?
    That makes four.

    #51223
    Unisage
    Participant

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,20:34)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,12:32)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,12:20)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:33)

    Quote (Oxy @ May 02 2007,07:24)

    Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,07:17)
    So if Jesus has a divine Spirit and a Human Spirit.When he died where did the Human Spirit Go? Where did the Holy Spirit Go? And where was the Father?


    Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit as we are when we receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit always is and therefore obviously does not die.  I would imagine that He would remain with the risen Lord?

    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?

    The Father remains where the Father is and always was.

    Was there a point to this question?


    The point is simple what you say dont line up with rest of Scriptures.

    Show me a Verse when Jesus died his Human Spirit join with the Divine Spirit.

    Who was in the depth of the Earth? Where was the Father? What happen to the Holy Spirit. And I cant find a verse where a human and a Divine Spirit join togeather.So what happen to the Human Spirit that Jesus has?


    Why don't you show me where I have EVER said that a human spirit has joined up with a divine spirit.

    I think you have confused me with someone else, or you have confused something I've said.


    This is what you quoted

    Quote
    As for His human spirit, where does anyone's human sprit go when they die?  But Jesus lives again so I imagine they have been reunited?


    I said I imagine Jesus, having been resurrected from the dead, was reunited with his spirit.  This was not stated as a fact, but rather as a thought, which you seem to have misinterpreted.


    If its not in the word of God.Then why would you even think it?Thats how alot of people get into trouble.That is misleading regardless.

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