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Basic logic

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  • August 4, 2015 at 10:13 am#801647
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Kerwin……I can honor anyone that does not mean I worship them. I believe T8 is wrong. I realize worship contains honor, in some aspects, but it certainly is not the exact same word. I don’t believe you believe it is either. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

    August 4, 2015 at 10:21 am#801648
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    It is not the same word but rather it means the same thing as honor in some uses. A thesaurus will reveal that much.

    In this verse worship is used to mean honor as David is not God.

    1 Chronicles 29:20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

    August 4, 2015 at 1:04 pm#801663
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Let test your words @GeneBalthrop.

    Kerwin……I can honor anyone that does not mean I worship them. I believe T8 is wrong. I realize worship contains honor, in some aspects, but it certainly is not the exact same word. I don’t believe you believe it is either. IMO

    While you already understand that the word worship contains honour, let’s look at legitimate uses of the word ‘worship’ as it is scripturally applied to both God and Man.

    Old Testament

    God

    ‘Shachah’ is translated as worshiped in the following verse:

    Genesis 24:26
    Then the man bowed down and worshiped the LORD,

    Man

    ‘Shachah’ is also used in relation to bowing down to King David in 1 Kings 1:23.
    And they told the king, saying, Behold Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground.

    New Testament

    God

    ‘proskuneo’ is translated as worship in the following verse:

    Revelation 7:11
    All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

    Jesus

    ‘proskuneo’ is also translated as worshiped in the following verse:

    Matthew 14:33
    Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

    Man

    ‘proskuneo’ is again translated as worshipped in the following verse:

    Revelation 3:9
    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    You see Gene. I didn’t come up with this stuff myself. It is simply observance of scripture and not trying to change the truth of that. It is the same word worship applied legitimately to God, Jesus, and man. Translators often use different English words for the same word ‘proskuneo’.

    I await your rebuttal or admittance that you are wrong on this. Please don’t ignore it. It is good to get a resolution. People can learn from that.

    Thanks.

    August 4, 2015 at 1:15 pm#801665
    princess
    Participant

    lost of love

    the most beautiful words I have read. harmony when you speak them T, it is a truth just those words are not in scripture T……now what do we do?

     

     

     

    August 4, 2015 at 1:34 pm#801671
    terraricca
    Participant

    those words are in scriptures they are even part of the first commandment ,and

    RO 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    RO 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

    August 5, 2015 at 1:14 pm#801752
    princess
    Participant

    T, you are a dear, the words are not found in scripture. it could be how you feel or express your love for Christ & God. does that make the words less truthful because they are not found in scripture? for some most definitely, for others they could relate, to some they may think you have gone mad. All in all T, it is you, who you are how you express your thought (in pure form).

    parroting is for the birds, tell me what is your hearts desire that is where the real truth lays. Not chapter and verse. Truth has no age, no form of writing. it just is. we know it when we read it, hear it, sense it. we are human not in the flesh, human in nature.

    August 5, 2015 at 1:35 pm#801753
    terraricca
    Participant

    Princess

    the truth is something we can live by if we do then we can talk and understand God words ,we are living in the flesh for our soul is of the spirit type ,so we have to make a choice living by the flesh or by the spirit ,the nature of human is a expression invented by those that live according to the flesh and enjoy it and so find satisfaction in it ,but this is not the truth and so not living by the truth ,you have to pick living by the spirit to come to the truth ,our senses are only tools just like our hands and legs

    August 6, 2015 at 12:09 pm#801810
    princess
    Participant

    when you speak of the flesh T, what do you mean?

    the hand doesn’t steal, the foot doesn’t take the wrong path. to not have your spirit and flesh in line with each other, you will be in a constant Pauline state.

     

    August 6, 2015 at 12:26 pm#801811
    kerwin
    Participant

    Princess the conscious, subconscious. and unconscious minds but even they are linked to other parts of the physical, soulish, and spiritual human being.

    August 6, 2015 at 1:31 pm#801812
    terraricca
    Participant

    princess

    the flesh is the external shell that needs to be taken care of ;like eating/sleeping/drinking/think/work/build/reproduction/socialise/communicate/remember things/defend from others/wear cloths/need shelter/live to stay alive ,and the alikes

    the spirit soul in that flesh does not need any of those items except one THE FLESH BODY for without it the soul is dead (sleeps) the above items can make people slaves to their direct needs and wants and so live to what is called according to the flesh ,while living according to the spirit is doing for others what you want others do for you even if they do not do it ,resist the will and needs /wants of the flesh ,obey your creator for he knows what his creation needs above all things,true life

    August 9, 2015 at 11:14 pm#801929
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    the spirit soul in that flesh does not need any of those items except one THE FLESH BODY for without it the soul is dead (sleeps)

    The spirit gives the soul life and the living soul animates the body. A body without a soul is a hunk of dad flesh. A soul without the spirit is not a living soul.

    August 10, 2015 at 1:42 am#801935
    wilsunphi
    Participant

    “If the Holy Spirit fathered Jesus”

    Hi t8,

    It has been a while. How have you been? (Congrats on the upgraded site btw.)

    I was just skimming through the pages when i noticed the above quote. I feel using the word ‘fathered’ here is unbiblical because even though Mary became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Father is the one who fathered Jesus. May seem like nitpicking, but felt using the word ‘fathered’ was wrong.

    Wilson

    August 10, 2015 at 4:39 am#801936
    terraricca
    Participant

    t8

     

    the soul is the spirit given by God to us all the living man or angels ,the body is to bring that soul to life ,

     

    this is why it says “the soul that sin will die ” this is also why it says “do not live by the flesh wants” but by the spirit for either one can take over the soul,it is up to us to make the choice which

    August 10, 2015 at 8:17 pm#801981
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    terraicca, if we are to live by either the spirit or the flesh and can be led by either, then what part of us exactly can be led by the Spirit or by the flesh if we are only composed of spirit and flesh? Is the spirit led by itself and if the flesh dominates our life, then is the spirit led by the flesh? Or what?

    August 10, 2015 at 8:21 pm#801982
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @wilsunphi

    Yes I upgraded the site partially with some help from code that I was able to purchase. But there is a speed issue when lots of people are logged on at the same time. I am working through these issues one at ta time to get the site faster.

    August 10, 2015 at 8:25 pm#801983
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi wilsunphi.

    Yes I can see your point about the word fathered, because to father someone can mean to treat with the protective care associated with a father  or assign the paternity of a child. (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/father)

    Do you have a suggestion as to what word I could use?

    The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

    Actually I am glad you brought this up because I noticed that it says, “the power of the Most High”. Is that a reference to the Holy Spirit or is the Holy Spirit and power of God two rather than the same?

    August 11, 2015 at 1:11 am#801986
    terraricca
    Participant

    led by the spirit of truth of God that is ;you seem mixing the spirit soul of man with the spirit of God ,

    August 11, 2015 at 4:35 am#801988
    wilsunphi
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    The word fathered usually means that one person can be called the father of another. I felt i should point out that statement since only God the Father is called the father of Jesus in the Bible. We see in the Bible that in many places the Holy Spirit comes with the power of God. I haven’t arrived at a conclusion about the separate personhood of the Holy Spirit. From the Bible we see that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, proceeds from the Father and rests on the Son. I prefer to closely stick to the text and not read beyond it, to prevent blaspheming. I also think taking a position on this matter is not necessary for salvation. As the Bible says
    ‘This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.’

    August 11, 2015 at 9:16 am#801992
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Good stuff wilsunphi. I then just need a word that describes the Holy Spirit as replacing a natural father in the conception of the messiah. I chose fathered, but as you point out it can mean a number of things.

    August 11, 2015 at 9:25 am#801993
    kerwin
    Participant

    Wilsunphi,

    Nice name. Is the phi symbolizing the golden ratio?

    God created all thing via his Spirit for he spoke his word and the Spirit moved and all things were created that have been created.

    Just as God made Adam from the earth so too did he make Jesus from the seed of David and formed him within her womb. Just as the Spirit hovered over the water so too did it hover her as Jesus was made of her. He developed from that point of being a conceptus, a new human being, onward; in the same way other human beings do.

    In this way his Father is David, Abraham, Adam, and then finally God whom created Adam from the earth.

    There is another way God has children as flesh is born of flesh and spirit is born of Spirit. A child is born of the Spirit when they receive the Spirit of his Son into their heart. Scripture tells us Jesus was the first to receive that Spirit into his heart and only through him may anyone else receive it.

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