Rightly dividing the word

Sponges

Here is something really obvious, yet many do not understand it.

If you soak a sponge in vinegar, then you can extract vinegar from a sponge. But if you do not soak vinegar in a sponge, then you will extract that which is originally in the sponge. Likewise, if you start with your mind being convinced of a doctrine, then no matter what the evidence against it, you will find a way to point it to your doctrine. And so it is if you start with the Trinity Doctrine, then you will twist scripture toward the Trinity and ignore all the scriptures that you cannot twist.

In the same way, if you start with a belief that there is no God, then all science will point you to there being no God. It is called starting with the conclusion or having your mind already made up. Instead, we need to let evidence lead us to the conclusion, anything else is bias.

What would happen if you started with humility and read the scriptures so as to learn the truths of God contained within? You would then renew your mind and with that renewed mind, you could gain an ever-increasing depth of understanding in scripture, enabling you to consume the meat of the Word, and to rightly divide the Word. This would further enable you to teach the word with all faithfulness toward God and with a good conscience.

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Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 79 total)
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  • #776623
    DavidL
    Participant

    Thanks terraricca…Umm no that’s not what I think, in fact I’m sure t8 said that he believed the Trinity when he was first saved….and it was not until later (when he delved into writings outside of Scripture), that he has now come up with this theological concept denying the Godhead…and absolute Deity of Christ (which is so obvious portrayed in Scripture)…I mean, just read John 1:1 with no preconceived ideas or no theological teaching – common, it’s really quite straight forward and simple..

    Do you really need a whole list of verses…? How about Isaiah 9:6…?! Revelation 1:8….how would you read these two verses with no outside influence – just you and the Holy Spirit…..?

    #776624
    DavidL
    Participant

    Isaiah 9:6 –
    “For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

    Revelation 1:8 –
    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    There are so many verses like this that get strangely overlooked or explained away to suit those that have become indoctrinated against the Trinity in Scripture, through extra-Biblical teachings…

    #776625
    Admin
    Keymaster

    One point you make is true and the other is not.

    It was scripture that was the final nail in me believing that there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Reading the second century father’s (or those after the Apostles) writings about Jesus being the first work of the Father and the Word that came from God and was with God, came many years later. I wanted to understand what these men thought about John 1:1 and they believed that the Word was Jesus and that he came from God and is not God himself.

    #776626
    DavidL
    Participant

    Colossians 2:8-10:
    “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority.”

    #776627
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Wrong again DavidL. Strangely overlooked? Wrong, they are addressed not ignored.

    Supporting the Trinity Doctrine – The Trinity Doctrine



    We do not ignore scripture because we do so at our peril.

    You ignore this:

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    As you can see, the one doing the ignoring is you. Please address this scripture. Until then, we can only assume you are opposing Jesus because you oppose us for believing what he said.

    #776628
    DavidL
    Participant

    ‘For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form’….please just read that with no outside influence or preconceived notions…(if you can)..

    #776629
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8 – I was actually corresponding with terraricca…you have this habit of over-riding all my discussions with other people…

    I know how you explain all these verses away to mean something other than what we would naturally understand and receive in our hearts from the Holy Spirit..your tactics are so obvious – you don’t fool me one bit..! It is what all cults do to justify their false teachings..!! they twist the Scriptures round from what they so obviously say, to mean something completely meaningless, but something that no longer opposes their own theological lies….!!!

    He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. – Proverbs 15:32

    #776630
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    That is not the way ,David,if you read the scriptures you read the whole scriptures first before you can open your lips to say any thing,if you do it must be a question not a explanation,so your question on Isa 9 and rev 1:8 can be explain if you read the scriptures with the question in your mind,in 53 years I now can not count how many times I have read it,but as a good guess 40 about,some books as many times as 100 times,and always ask at almost every verse ,why,how,when who,where ,I only start to teach about 4years ago,because truth was more important to me than arguing on things I did not understand plainly,you see I came to the conclusion that everything is written in the scriptures and if you do not understand some thing it is because you do not have the knowledge of it. And so you have to read the scriptures again to improve your understanding,that God gives to those that love him ,and so seek him and his wisdom, simple question first :why do you think God has made his words written ??? Was it God that made it either prophetic ,poetic,literal,??? Or was it the man with the pen,? If it was God why ??
    If it was God how can you prove it ? For whom was it written ?? How come so many bibles but so little true interest in it from the owners of bibles ?? What are the fundamental truths in the scriptures ,you know those we can not change and will never change,forever,

    #776631
    DavidL
    Participant

    yes t8 – am also waiting for an answer – what translation of John 1:1 do you accept (wording please)…

    #776632
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I will gladly answer your question. But you have two outstanding questions to answer and if you can answer me, then I think it fair and I will answer you.

    1) You say I am an Arian for believing in Jesus words “eternal life is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”. And you say I am Arian because I believe as Paul instructed that “for us, there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ”. So the question is, how exactly is this Arian? Why am I under his influence as you say. What exactly is Arius’s doctrine that I am preaching?

    2) How is this verse meant to be read. You say that when we are born-again, that we are then able to read the true meaning of scripture. While I agree with that statement, you also deny that the Father is the only true God as Jesus said. So my question was this:
    How exactly are we suppose to read these words of Jesus when he said, “this is eternal life, that we may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent? There are three things here.
    a) Eternal life
    b) only true God
    c) And Jesus Christ.

    Please cover the three points and explain how they are suppose to be read and what these words really mean. This is a fair question.

    #776633
    Paul
    Participant

    Hay DavidL, how about answering my questions….!.?

    Without the correct translation, just as john 1:1 appears in the KJ, tell me how that proves a trinity?

    #776634
    DavidL
    Participant

    Paul – who said John 1:1 proved the Trinity..?

    What I said from the start is that everyone who denies the Trinity has to change John 1:1..and re-interpret a whole host of other Scriptures (like t8 has done) to fit their man-made doctrine..

    If KJV is incorrect then why can’t you say which translation you actually prescribe to…?

    #776635
    Admin
    Keymaster

    So you admit that John 1:1 doesn’t teach the Trinity. We agree.

    Now for my two questions.

    #776636
    DavidL
    Participant

    Anastas – I’m not sure how you can read, ‘the Word was God’, ‘I and the Father are One’, ‘before Abraham was, I Am’ etc. and not see Jesus equal with the Father…(unless influenced by man’s theology)…!

    The Deity of Christ is not some theological dogma reserved for Catholics, nor a revelation of secrets (as you say), but rather GOD WITH US is THE gloriously progressive vision that increases in manifest intensity throughout the whole volume of Scripture..!

    Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning GOD..”

    John 1:2 “He was with God in the beginning.”

    Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” declares the Lord God, “the One who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 21:6,7 “Then He said to me, ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.”

    #776637
    Paul
    Participant

    David – what man made doctrine am I coming up with and why do I need to change john 1:1.

    Answer a few questions for me please…..

    1. Is the trinity doctrine man made?
    2. Did it not come out of the council of nicea?
    3. Was the council of nicea a council of men, a council chaired by men, and decisions derived by men?
    4. What other scriptures am I changing?

    You keep referring to john 1:1, if it is not to support your trinty, what are you referring to it for?

    #776638
    Admin
    Keymaster

    DavidL, your view of John 1:1 and a few other scriptures are in direct contradiction with the rest of scripture. It is you who has to wrestle with this. Whereas, when you believe rightly that there is one true God the Father, and Jesus is the one who God made Lord and messiah, then there are no contradictions.

    #776639
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    David

    We know that every bible manuscript as been touched by men to include their own views ,based on their lack of good understanding of the language of old,they took some liberties to make some of the scriptures lean toward their own church,this is why it takes good knowledge in the scriptures to be able to see which is true to God words,and purpose,
    This will show the true way to the true understanding of his written word,

    As for the trinity ,their is no such a word or hint to it, scriptures is very direct and clear :God his one God,and God his alone God,and Christ is the son of God and so God the father his The God of the son,
    This alone would make you never believe in the trinity, So all becomes men made story about the trinity, of cause you can make some verses to lean by twisting the truth a bit but this would brake the previous scriptures that says the opposite , so if you believe it that the trinity is true that would make you a declared opposer to God’s word,if you can live with that s fine to me ,I will certainly not do that ,but we all are free to chose our ways ,and pay the prize for that choice,

    The talk to try to justify what is false ,as to be done with the scriptures ,and for what is truth would be the same. Principal, but unless you give full power to the written scriptures and believe them ,you are living in a limbo ,not knowing we’re you are going or what you believe to be true,or you may not care for any of it ,and just see which is more of an interest to you,in this action you would have sold your soul to the devil,

    #776640
    Admin
    Keymaster

    @ DavidL,
    You said: “The Deity of Christ is not some theological dogma reserved for Catholics,”

    The Catholic Faith is this: “The Trinity Doctrine”. Yet you take some comfort in that other denominations hold the Trinity Doctrine too. Well the answer is that the Catholic Church had it first. The Catholic Trinity that is, and it is the one you believe word for word. It took root during the Dark Ages at the height of her power and when scripture was denied and doctrine came from this establishment. The world has been drunk ever since and even before that because it is an ancient doctrine.

    It is worth noting that Babylon is the Mother of Harlots. Thus, she probably has more than a few daughters or offspring. So yes, the RCC is not the only one under that influence as you say, I mean you admit you are too, and there are heaps of denominations built on that foundation.

    #776641
    DavidL
    Participant

    Paul – first you use the word ‘prove’ – then the word ‘support’…

    John’s revelation of Christ ‘proves’ His Deity…which directly ‘supports’ the Trinity..

    If you lay aside the Greek grammar argument for a minute and remember that John was Jewish (not Greek)…it becomes apparent that not only is the conclusion of that argument foreign to Jewish thought, but that Johns first utterance directs our attention immediately to Genesis 1:1 and places Christ (as the Word of God) here in the first four words of the Torah – with God…as God..!

    This revelation confirms the words of David, Isaiah, Thomas, Paul etc.

    So the Deity of the Son is revealed in the first verse of Scripture, and the Trinity in the second…”And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

    This of course is denied by those who see the Trinity as just a doctrine of the Catholic Church..but maybe it is good to realize that not everything the Catholic church believes is false – as they do acknowledge the Virgin birth, and the Resurrection of Christ etc..!

    #776642
    Admin
    Keymaster

    No one is denying that Jesus is divine. But we are denying that he is THE divine. The Most High God is his Father and Jesus is his son. This is the testimony of Jesus and scripture. We accept it. And our faithful brother Paul said, “for us, there is one God the Father” and we concur.

    Whereas you are trying to coax us into “For us, there is one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You are changing the truth of God into something you desire.

    I am going to have to side with Jesus and Paul on this issue DavidL. And so will anyone else who hears Jesus words and wants the truth more than pride in one’s own understanding and traditions.

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