Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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Viewing 20 posts - 281 through 300 (of 1,323 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #300491
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,
    Messenger=Angel.

    So to you the words are entirely interchangeable.
    So any witnessing verses that could call Jesus an angel?

    Perhaps heb 1?

    #300498
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ June 02 2012,05:52)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2012,08:52)
    John the Baptist does not PREPARE Jesus Christ.
    This is the only time Jesus is called the MESSENGER so any witnesses do not exist for developing theories he was an ANGEL.


    What part of messenger and angel being the exact same word in the Greek do you not understand. Is this fact really that hard to grasp? For most it is something that can be understood immediately.


    T8;

    Are you making the point that even if Scripture calls Jesus a messenger(angel) it does not mean he is a being composed of spirit?

    #300659
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,13:56)
    Hi t8,
    Messenger=Angel.

    So to you the words are entirely interchangeable.
    So any witnessing verses that could call Jesus an angel?

    Perhaps heb 1?


    Nick. Scripture uses one word. That is what I am saying.

    This has a number of connotations that few have thought about.

    Just as a young girl was to conceive and we think virgin, yet scripture says a young girl.

    What does this mean, that Mary was the young girl and likely a virgin given her age and what we read.

    Similarly, Jesus is not an angel as in the Seraph or Cherub sense, but was certainly one in the  messenger sense.

    So instead of being blinded by the possibility that Jesus is a Cherub which I don't see anyone saying here, have you thought that the Angel of the LORD may not be a Cherub or Seraph either. When you read about the Angel of the LORD, he is always described as different to the angels that accompany him. He is different to them and is special and wonderful.

    Scripture uses the same word that we use for messenger and angel. Get use to it. Jesus, John, Men, Cherub, and Seraph are called angels in scripture. Ignoring that doesn't make it go away.

    It is not true when men say that Jesus is not an angel. Scripture differs to this view plain and simple. If a man differs to scripture, then it is not scripture that should change is it?

    #300660
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2012,14:41)
    T8;

    Are you making the point that even if Scripture calls Jesus a messenger(angel) it does not mean he is a being composed of spirit?


    Hi Kerwin. No I wasn't making that point.

    :)

    #300662
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ June 02 2012,10:50)

    Quote (Ed J @ May 31 2012,01:12)
    Hi T8, you got the story confused.
    The messenger of the covenant is Jesus.

    Malachi 3:1 mentions both, John the Baptist:
    the messenger that shall prepare the way, for the
    messenger of the covenant which is Jesus Christ the Lord.


    Edj.
    Are you joking with me? If not, then you are the one who is confused.

    This is exactly what I was saying all a long.
    Because you disagreed with what I was saying, I assumed that you denied that Jesus was called a messenger in this scripture because you said it was about John the Baptist and not Jesus at all, when I was saying that both Jesus and John were being referenced.

    It appears you are now saying that indeed Jesus was a messenger too which is the same as saying that Jesus was an angel as the English words messenger and angel are the same Greek word.

    Why does everything take so long to establish here. If we read what others are actually saying then it would be much easier for all.


    Hi T8, perhaps it was only a matter of miscommunication then.

    It least my post was clear enough for you to see we were agreeing all along.  :)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #300664
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2012,05:52)
    Hi Ed,

    Mal 3:1
    Behold, I will send my messenger (John the Baptist), and he shall prepare the way before me(God):

    and the Lord (God ), whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple(God as Spirit in Jesus Christ), even the messenger of the covenant (Jesus Christ),

    whom ye delight in: behold, he(My Spirit) shall come, saith (God) the “LORD of Hosts”[Hosts of angels].

    John the Baptist does not PREPARE Jesus Christ.
    This is the only time Jesus is called the MESSENGER so any witnesses do not exist for developing theories he was an ANGEL.


    Hi Nick,

    I guess I was mistaken thinking that T8 was disagreeing with us.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #300711
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ June 03 2012,18:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2012,14:41)
    T8;

    Are you making the point that even if Scripture calls Jesus a messenger(angel) it does not mean he is a being composed of spirit?


    Hi Kerwin. No I wasn't making that point.

    :)


    T8;

    It seemed like you were.

    What do you believe is meant when Scripture declares that World to come is not subject to angels?

    #300721
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,
    Jesus is called once a messenger [?angel] and that is enough for you to build on?
    You really think he is the ANGEL of the Lord despite Heb 1?

    #300810
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ June 03 2012,23:18)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,13:56)
    Hi t8,
    Messenger=Angel.

    So to you the words are entirely interchangeable.
    So any witnessing verses that could call Jesus an angel?

    Perhaps heb 1?


    Nick. Scripture uses one word. That is what I am saying.

    This has a number of connotations that few have thought about.

    Just as a young girl was to conceive and we think virgin, yet scripture says a young girl.

    What does this mean, that Mary was the young girl and likely a virgin given her age and what we read.

    Similarly, Jesus is not an angel as in the Seraph or Cherub sense, but was certainly one in the  messenger sense.

    So instead of being blinded by the possibility that Jesus is a Cherub which I don't see anyone saying here, have you thought that the Angel of the LORD may not be a Cherub or Seraph either. When you read about the Angel of the LORD, he is always described as different to the angels that accompany him. He is different to them and is special and wonderful.

    Scripture uses the same word that we use for messenger and angel. Get use to it. Jesus, John, Men, Cherub, and Seraph are called angels in scripture. Ignoring that doesn't make it go away.

    It is not true when men say that Jesus is not an angel. Scripture differs to this view plain and simple. If a man differs to scripture, then it is not scripture that should change is it?


    T8.

    I agree with what you are saying here:
    jesus was send to earth with a message,he was called the messenger.
    John the babtist was also send with a message,he also is a messenger.

    Angels sometimes are send with a message,they also are messengers.
    We also have a message to our brothers and sisters,we are also messengers.And so are the prophets.

    wakeup.

    #300816
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi WU,
    But not angels.

    #300818
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2012,20:47)
    Hi WU,
    But not angels.


    Nick.

    Whomsoever is send by God with a message is the messenger of God.
    The angel that spoke to Moses is a messenger,send by God,with a message.

    wakeup.

    #300820
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2012,10:00)
    Hi t8,
    Jesus is called once a messenger [?angel] and that is enough for you to build on?
    You really think he is the ANGEL of the Lord despite Heb 1?


    Nick if Jesus is called a messenger and the Messenger of the LORD is described as being different to the accompanying angels that are with him, then if you can't work that out, then I can't help you.

    You are blinded by the racial meaning of angel such as cherub or seraph which blocks your view that if Jesus is a legitimate messenger and so is the Messenger of the LORD, then that makes it at least possible. But your view that it is impossible is not supported at least in scripture. There is nothing that I know of in scripture that demonstrates that Jesus was not the Messenger of the LORD. This remains open.

    If you say it is impossible that Jesus cannot be the Messenger of YHWH while acknowledging that Jesus was certainly called a messenger in the OT, then again, I can't help you any further if your thinking process breaks down here.

    Also, if you say that Jesus is not a messenger/angel while even one scripture says that he is, then you are either wrong or scripture is. How can it be otherwise?

    #300836
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,
    One verse is sufficient for you?
    2Cor 13.1

    #301088
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If you read carefully you will see that my stance is that it remains a possibility. So that would mean that one verse is not good enough for me would it not?

    The comparison between the Messenger of the LORD and Jesus is quite striking and the fact that the Messenger of the LORD is special and commands angels more so. And the fact that men thought they saw YHWH when they saw this messenger ties in with the Image of the Invisible God.

    So more than one verse is the description and we all know that Jesus was not called Jesus pre his partaking of the flesh.

    I remain open to the possibility so that I am teachable and can take evidence for or against. It is part of the search for truth that I am on.

    So one verse is not good enough for me. But if you are referring to Jesus being a Messenger as spoken in scripture, then yes one scripture is good enough to say that Jesus is the Messenger. To do otherwise is to reject that scripture which is what it appears you are doing. You are rejecting it or ignoring it. How else do you explain that you seem to be making this scripture a stumbling block. Is not ALL scripture inspired?

    #301089
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,
    Mighty angels have become to those in Christ ministering spirits.[heb1]
    How could he be a mere angel?

    #301106
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi t8,
    2 Peter 2:11
    Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

    There are ministering spirits to those in Christ

    #301164
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2012,11:24)
    Hi T8,
    Mighty angels have become to those in Christ ministering spirits.[heb1]
    How could he be a mere angel?


    That is for you to figure out Nick.

    I know he is called a messenger and I have no conflicts with that one scripture and all others.

    You appear to have a conflict with your theology in this matter. I tried to explain it, but you cannot understand for some reason.

    #301165
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2012,12:35)
    hi t8,
    2 Peter 2:11
    Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

    There are ministering spirits to those in Christ


    You still don't understand given this answer from you.

    You have a conflict. One scripture calls him an angel, and these appear to say otherwise. How you reconcile that I do not know. I know how I reconcile it.

    #301166
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,
    Called an angel?
    Are all messengers angels?
    Is one verse enough for you to speculate from?

    #301177
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Nick you clearly have a problem with this because the word angel and messenger are the same word.
    I don't have a problem with this.

    Jesus is called an angel/messenger at least once.
    Men are called angels/messengers on a number of occasions.

    It appears that you do not understand this. But it is a fact.
    I accept it and I am not sure how you reconcile this conflict with your view.

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