John 18:5-6

Because YHWH calls himself “I am”  in Exodus 3:13-14, did Jesus claim to be Yahweh when he said “I am” in John 18:5-6?

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:13-14 says the following:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, `What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.'”

But what does Yahweh say in Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

and in Acts 13:33
33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

Also look at Hebrews 1:5 & Hebrews 5:5

So Yahweh is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of Yahweh. Jesus is not Yahweh and therefore he is not God. Rather Jesus is the son of Yahweh, otherwise known as the Son of God.

Back in John 18 we can see that the Jews came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. They first took him to Annas (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Jesus to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn’t find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn’t bear false witness about what Jesus said in Jn.8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days, then Jesus was condemned for claiming to be the Son of God in Matthew 26:63-65.

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Jesus say “Ego eimi.” They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn’t. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn’t. Why not? Because it wasn’t blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

It is believed by some that the account recorded in John 8:48-59 further supports the position that Jesus is the “I AM.” Why else would the Jews try to stone him (v59)? He obviously blasphemed in the eyes of the Jews.

“I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52

In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Jesus used “ego eimi” with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no stoning. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no stoning. Jesus said to his disciples, “that ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)” in John 13:19 without them batting an eye.

This brings us back to Jn.8:58. Why did the Jews seek to stone him on that occasion? The context of Jn.8 shows that Jesus;

  • accused the Jews of “judging after the flesh” (vs.15).
  • said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
  • implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
  • said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
  • said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
  • implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
  • said their father was the devil (vs.44).
  • said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
  • accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
  • accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
  • accused them of lying (vs.55).
 

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Jesus words leading them to believe;

  • that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
  • Jesus had a devil (vs.52).
  • that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
  • that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Jesus words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews, that they couldn’t restrain themselves. They simply couldn’t take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, “ego eimi,” but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

We need to also remember that “I AM” in the Old Testament is a different set of words from different languages to the New Testament instances. It would be like saying that “I am” in English is equating one with God for it is the word used by God in Hebrew. That is simply not true. Many say “I am” in the New Testament just as they say those words today without meaning they are God.

If you were watching Mickey Mouse on the Disney channel and Goofy said to Mickey, “are you Mickey Mouse”, am I to assume then that Mickey Mouse is claiming to be God if he answers, “I am”? Of course not. He is simply identifying himself as Mickey Mouse.

Back to the Old Testament we see that it was YHWH that said “I am that I am”. He was saying that he was the ever exisiting one. So his name was actually YHWH. To equate the common words “I am” as a claim to be YHWH is indeed a big stretch of the imagination.

Here is an example of the words “I am” in everday language/

Q: Are you Peter?
A: I am.

Conclusion: If I am Peter then am I blaspheming when I say I am. I am not saying I am YHWH. I am saying that I am Peter. I am simply answering the question asked of me. This behaviour is very normal and common as you can see. In fact this paragraph alone contains 7 instances of the term ‘I am’. Yet who in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be God?
To say that Jesus claimed to be God because he said “I am” can only be at most, an unsupported and extemely weak opinion. There are no scriptures in the bible that uses this occurrence as a teaching to promote a Trinity Or to prove that Yashua is Yahweh. To hinge the Trinity Doctrine on an assumption is indeed a weak argument to make and wouldn’t get very far in a court of law. To say that we are condemned if we do not believe in a certain vague interpretation is totally unacceptable to all who earnestly seek truth. Remember that we are judged by the measures we judge others, so we shouldn’t be so unreasonable.

If you read the whole Bible without bias, would you come to the conclusion that Jn.8:58 is saying that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity. I really do not think so, therefore it is unfair to condemn someone who doesn’t hold to your opinion if you indeed believe in the Trinity Doctrine and I have to note that there are hundreds of scriptures that show us clearly that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God. These verses are clear teachings. The Trinity Doctrine is based on weak assumptions which come from the mind of Man. I prefer to believe the scriptures, rather than assumptions and imaginations of men.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

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  • #793254
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Princess,you say to David L,
    Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

    that means you David.

    Do you believe in Jesus princess?,or do you believe in this statement from St.Johns gospel? if so this applies to you too! and everyone here! Do you do greater works? say yes and I’ll call you a liar.

    So who’s a real believer in Jesus? you? or me? I’d say nobody here really is! unless one wants to give some lame dispensational reason that we can save souls by our preaching which Jesus couldn’t do because he was under the law and we are not.

     

     

    </div>

    #793257
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    True believers in the time of the apostles obeyed the command to repent, be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and to be reborn from above. Nothing has changed.

     

    That is all God asks of us and the rest is in His hands.

    We will see what He has used us for when we go before the tribunal of Christ[2Cor 5.10]but it will not be by our striving.

    #793258
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Everything is about God and by His Spirit.

    We are offered the privilege of being involved in this victory.

    #793259
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    All good Nick but do you do greater works than Christ? Paul may have claimed to and Joseph Smith too but what about you?

    Was princess right to use this scripture against David? or does it really show what kind of hypocrite  or fool she,me,you and everyone else really is?

    #793262
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Is it promised that all will do greater works?

    Give me a light burden thanks

    #793264
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    “Before Abraham was born, I AM.”…?

    Experts argue over this line. I assume you have for your own reasons picked these experts.

    Your version is bad English translated from good Koine Greek. If the translators were consistent in this type of translation I would believe it was their dialect. As it is their choices make it look like they are unaware of correct English tense uses in this one passage while being skilled in other ones.

    In proper English it is “I have been since before Abraham was born”. The comma at the end as the translators put it is a comma splice and since they are educational elites they know that. The New world has the “I have been” correct but the translator of it also uses the comma splice.

    These so called biased translators tortured English in order to get a obscure reference to Old Testament words out of it. Instead they should have did their job correctly and let the readers of Scripture hear the word in language that is easier to understand.

    Enough of that.

    John 8:58Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

    58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

    Abraham was both made by God and was made the father of the Hebrews and others by God.

    Jesus has been the Christ since before the world was created even though God made him in Mary’s inner parts.

    Jesus is the Christ and God spoke of him to Eve even during in the words of the curse he laid on her.

    #793266
    DavidL
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Jesus also said “that they may be one, even as we are one” in John 17:22

    Yes, this is the same argument t8 has hijacked (probably off the JW’s or some other cult), that Jesus wants His followers to have the same kind of unity as He had with the Father…

    but by saying this you are implying that the unity of Jesus with the Father (when He said, “I and the Father are One.”) was merely ‘spiritual’… so if this is true and Jesus, as you say, was just a man used by the Spirit of God and nothing more – then others also should be able to say these same things He said…

     

    But who was there EVER who could say…”I and the Father are One.”…???

    Is this something YOU could say…???

    What spirit-filled believer could EVER say…”Before Abraham was born, I AM.”…???

    What prophet, priest, or apostle of Christ would dare to say…”If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.”…???

     

    This is my question.

    #793267
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    You keep quoting what the Spirit said through Jesus.

    The flesh contributes nothing

    #793268
    DavidL
    Participant

    I should point out that these same verses you use out of context to try and DENY the oneness of Father and Son, actually CONFIRM their Oneness…

    read it again…”that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”..

    Read it in the context of Jesus’ own words – “I and the Father are One.”

    #793269
    DavidL
    Participant

    You keep quoting what the Spirit said through Jesus.

    so Mr spiritual, does the Spirit say the same thing through you…??

    What other ‘man’ did the Spirit say these things through…???

    #793270
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Natural men often become worshipers of man.

    Rom1.18

    “For the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that which is known about God is evident within them;for God made it evident to them.

    For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen so they are without excuse. For even though they knew God they did not honour Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Professing to be wise they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of curruptible man and of birds and four footed animals and crawling creatures”

    It is all about God.

    #793271
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Have you not yet been guided by the Spirit?

    #793272
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The same Spirit spoke through Paul and the apostles.

    That is why their words are truth.

     

    #793273
    DavidL
    Participant

    so..is this just another ‘super-spiritual’ way of avoiding my simple question, Nick…?

    #793274
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Get involved in the work of God if you are so blessed.

    Being a sideline expert is useless.

    #793275
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    If you were not so confused about the nature of God you would find understanding these things so much easier.

    #793276
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    Has the Spirit never reminded you of the words of Jesus or given you an insight when you needed it?

    Has you not been given peace and joy yet?

    #793278
    DavidL
    Participant

    If you know the truth then it should not be hard to defend or explain…yet, as per usual, you cannot answer my question – do you have an answer..?

    What man – no matter how anointed or spiritual, could EVER say the things Christ said….????

    #793279
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    So these futile speculations you offer to us are better left in the rubbish bin.

    Cast off the stuff of the foolish minds of men.

     

    #793280
    DavidL
    Participant

    you know the answer – you just can’t face it…you are afraid..!!

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