John 18:5-6

Because YHWH calls himself “I am”  in Exodus 3:13-14, did Jesus claim to be Yahweh when he said “I am” in John 18:5-6?

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:13-14 says the following:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, `What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.'”

But what does Yahweh say in Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

and in Acts 13:33
33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

Also look at Hebrews 1:5 & Hebrews 5:5

So Yahweh is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of Yahweh. Jesus is not Yahweh and therefore he is not God. Rather Jesus is the son of Yahweh, otherwise known as the Son of God.

Back in John 18 we can see that the Jews came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. They first took him to Annas (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Jesus to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn’t find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn’t bear false witness about what Jesus said in Jn.8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days, then Jesus was condemned for claiming to be the Son of God in Matthew 26:63-65.

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Jesus say “Ego eimi.” They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn’t. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn’t. Why not? Because it wasn’t blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

It is believed by some that the account recorded in John 8:48-59 further supports the position that Jesus is the “I AM.” Why else would the Jews try to stone him (v59)? He obviously blasphemed in the eyes of the Jews.

“I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52

In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Jesus used “ego eimi” with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no stoning. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no stoning. Jesus said to his disciples, “that ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)” in John 13:19 without them batting an eye.

This brings us back to Jn.8:58. Why did the Jews seek to stone him on that occasion? The context of Jn.8 shows that Jesus;

  • accused the Jews of “judging after the flesh” (vs.15).
  • said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
  • implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
  • said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
  • said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
  • implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
  • said their father was the devil (vs.44).
  • said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
  • accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
  • accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
  • accused them of lying (vs.55).
 

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Jesus words leading them to believe;

  • that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
  • Jesus had a devil (vs.52).
  • that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
  • that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Jesus words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews, that they couldn’t restrain themselves. They simply couldn’t take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, “ego eimi,” but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

We need to also remember that “I AM” in the Old Testament is a different set of words from different languages to the New Testament instances. It would be like saying that “I am” in English is equating one with God for it is the word used by God in Hebrew. That is simply not true. Many say “I am” in the New Testament just as they say those words today without meaning they are God.

If you were watching Mickey Mouse on the Disney channel and Goofy said to Mickey, “are you Mickey Mouse”, am I to assume then that Mickey Mouse is claiming to be God if he answers, “I am”? Of course not. He is simply identifying himself as Mickey Mouse.

Back to the Old Testament we see that it was YHWH that said “I am that I am”. He was saying that he was the ever exisiting one. So his name was actually YHWH. To equate the common words “I am” as a claim to be YHWH is indeed a big stretch of the imagination.

Here is an example of the words “I am” in everday language/

Q: Are you Peter?
A: I am.

Conclusion: If I am Peter then am I blaspheming when I say I am. I am not saying I am YHWH. I am saying that I am Peter. I am simply answering the question asked of me. This behaviour is very normal and common as you can see. In fact this paragraph alone contains 7 instances of the term ‘I am’. Yet who in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be God?
To say that Jesus claimed to be God because he said “I am” can only be at most, an unsupported and extemely weak opinion. There are no scriptures in the bible that uses this occurrence as a teaching to promote a Trinity Or to prove that Yashua is Yahweh. To hinge the Trinity Doctrine on an assumption is indeed a weak argument to make and wouldn’t get very far in a court of law. To say that we are condemned if we do not believe in a certain vague interpretation is totally unacceptable to all who earnestly seek truth. Remember that we are judged by the measures we judge others, so we shouldn’t be so unreasonable.

If you read the whole Bible without bias, would you come to the conclusion that Jn.8:58 is saying that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity. I really do not think so, therefore it is unfair to condemn someone who doesn’t hold to your opinion if you indeed believe in the Trinity Doctrine and I have to note that there are hundreds of scriptures that show us clearly that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God. These verses are clear teachings. The Trinity Doctrine is based on weak assumptions which come from the mind of Man. I prefer to believe the scriptures, rather than assumptions and imaginations of men.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

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  • #791672
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Word was God.

    But you say Jesus is God??

     

    Yes, don’t you know what the Scriptures say – “He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.”

     

    Men still love darkness rather than light.

    #791676
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Then come out of darkness.

    The creation was done by the Spirit of God.

     

    ps 104.30

    ” You send forth Your Spirit, they are created, and You renew the face of the ground.”

     

    Know that what is spoken is about the Spirit and not the vessel of man.

    #791678
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL

    Yes, don’t you know what the Scriptures say – “He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.”

    Men still love darkness rather than light.

    Who taught you that passage is speaking of Jesus and not of the very word that comes out of the mouth of God.  Do you not read that all things were created through God’s word even as it is written that God said “Let there be light” and there was.  To claim that passage is speaking of Jesus is to add to Scripture.

     

    #791680
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    If that is where I think it is then it is speaking of the Word of God that is in Jesus as it is addressing a time after the Word has took on the character of flesh.  That is what make Jesus the Son of God.

    #791681
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    The creation was done by the Spirit of God.

    good point

    #791684
    DavidL
    Participant

    If you just listened to the word of Scripture you wouldn’t get into such a confusing tangle…

     

    But if you have not yet received Jesus, what more can I expect..?

     

     

    #791687
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Poor answer.

    Show your love of scripture and discard what is of man.

    #791709
    DavidL
    Participant

    Show your love of scripture and discard what is of man.

     

    Yes Nick – if you haven’t noticed yet, that’s what I’m doing..!

    #791711
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    We must have missed it

    All you seem to promote is of man.

    #791715
    DavidL
    Participant

    please enlighten us…!

    #791727
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Yes when Jesus answered”I am” in response to his own question of “whom do you seek?” in Jn18:5,6 it was affirmative of Jesus the Nazarene.But why should they draw back and fall to the ground over that? unless Jesus was a divine being, which is the main point of St.John’s gospel that Jesus is the Son of God.

    In Jn8:58 when he says before Abraham was I was or am,he’s plainly claiming to be greater than Abraham and giving himself a divine status whether or not one thinks he’s calling himself God-the I AM of Exodus.

    In St.Jn12:41 it says”these things Isaiah said because he saw His glory and he spoke of him” and this is in reference to Jesus while in Isaiah 6 it refers to the prophets vision of Jehovah.So Jesus is the avatar or theophany of Jehovah as Jesus quite plainly says in Jn12:44″He who believes in me does not believe in me,but in him who sent me”.-that’s a verse I don’t hear preached on very often.

    So was Jesus claiming to be God or a god or a Divine Son of God to be worshiped in John’s gospel? It appears so to me.

    #791733
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAD,

    Yes when Jesus answered”I am” in response to his own question of “whom do you seek?” in Jn18:5,6 it was affirmative of Jesus the Nazarene.But why should they draw back and fall to the ground over that? unless Jesus was a divine being, which is the main point of St.John’s gospel that Jesus is the Son of God.

    That is speculation based on an event.

    John’s description of the event makes it sound like they fainted when they confronted him and considering what the happened when certain soldiers confronted a prophet of God in the past they may have good reason to faint as they were literally playing with fire.  These were temple soldiers and so trained in Scripture.  Like you I am speculating in saying all this even though my speculation has more basis than yours.

    The bottom line is that Scripture teaches us Jesus is a human being that mediates between humanity and God.  You either believe those words or do not (1 Timothy 2:5).

     

    #791734
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi Andrew,

    Wow you are easily convinced.

    We know that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself from Scripture but this is evidence to you that he also was a divine being?

     

    #791737
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Many wonderful miracles happened at the hands of the prophets and apostles too.

    How many divine beings does that make?

    #791741
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    In St.Jn12:41 it says”these things Isaiah said because he saw His glory and he spoke of him” and this is in reference to Jesus while in Isaiah 6 it refers to the prophets vision of Jehovah.So Jesus is the avatar or theophany of Jehovah as Jesus quite plainly says in Jn12:44″He who believes in me does not believe in me,but in him who sent me”.-that’s a verse I don’t hear preached on very often.””

     

    Check this out.

    The NIV even ADDS the word JESUS to Jn 12

    But the glory spoken of is of God and his throne as comparison with Rev 4 shows.

    Jesus was not another god with his own throne as idol worshippers would offer.

    #791743
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    To Kerwin and Nick,

    Kerwin, I know you read the rest of my post.But you choose to pick on the part about the people falling down? And who says temple soldiers were trained in scripture? They weren’t rabbi’s or scribes and that has nothing to do with it anyway.What if they were total unbelievers just doing their job? you don’t know what they believed.

    When Isaiah saw a vision of Jehovah did he really see Jesus? that’s what John’s gospel plainly says.Do you believe that or not Kerwin? He that sees Jesus sees the Father and he that believeth on Jesus believes not on him but the One who sent him.Is that right? he can still be the divine mediator can’t he? Do you worship Jesus? if not maybe you should just convert to Judaism.I know some reformed Jews and I like them,they are not too different from me other than the fact they don’t worship Jesus or eat pork or shrimp.They think Jesus was an alright Jewish rabbi.

    Nick, I’m easily convinced? I don’t think so but I’m just saying what the author of John’s gospel says about Isaiah seeing Jesus when he thought he had a vision of Jehovah or was it Yahweh? And was Jesus born of a virgin as in Luke or Matthew? maybe you were too? Do you believe that? Some christians don’t even believe that but I won’t say they are not Christians.Did Jesus preexist in some form as a divine being or Lord? Do you worship him? Only God is to be worshiped,is that right?

    #791744
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    I guess you do not like your beliefs to be challenged.

    I hope you take the time to do some research rather than staying in that place.

    #791750
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    The Word JESUS is not in the manuscripts from which Jn 12 of the bible is written.

    Despite your opinion that it does speak of Jesus you have no foundation except your opinion.

    Is that enough for you?

    #791754
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Lol Nick,you truly do make me laugh or I would not say that.In John 12 it plainly refers to Isaiah seeing Jesus in the context of the whole chapter.Why is that such a big deal to you? Does it hurt your”holy dogmas”? Oh gosh Nick I hope you’re not damned.I’ll pray for you.I guess you don’t worship Jesus either and maybe you should also convert to Judaism,only being an orthodox one might fit you better.Do you have enough hair to braid? if not just pray for it!Remember whatever things you ask for in faith will be granted.

    #791755
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew.

    The veracity of scripture is a precious rock.

    I hate the careless abuse of it by those who rely on their opinions

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