John 18:5-6

Because YHWH calls himself “I am”  in Exodus 3:13-14, did Jesus claim to be Yahweh when he said “I am” in John 18:5-6?

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:13-14 says the following:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, `What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.'”

But what does Yahweh say in Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

and in Acts 13:33
33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

Also look at Hebrews 1:5 & Hebrews 5:5

So Yahweh is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of Yahweh. Jesus is not Yahweh and therefore he is not God. Rather Jesus is the son of Yahweh, otherwise known as the Son of God.

Back in John 18 we can see that the Jews came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. They first took him to Annas (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Jesus to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn’t find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn’t bear false witness about what Jesus said in Jn.8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days, then Jesus was condemned for claiming to be the Son of God in Matthew 26:63-65.

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Jesus say “Ego eimi.” They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn’t. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn’t. Why not? Because it wasn’t blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

It is believed by some that the account recorded in John 8:48-59 further supports the position that Jesus is the “I AM.” Why else would the Jews try to stone him (v59)? He obviously blasphemed in the eyes of the Jews.

“I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52

In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Jesus used “ego eimi” with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no stoning. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no stoning. Jesus said to his disciples, “that ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)” in John 13:19 without them batting an eye.

This brings us back to Jn.8:58. Why did the Jews seek to stone him on that occasion? The context of Jn.8 shows that Jesus;

  • accused the Jews of “judging after the flesh” (vs.15).
  • said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
  • implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
  • said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
  • said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
  • implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
  • said their father was the devil (vs.44).
  • said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
  • accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
  • accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
  • accused them of lying (vs.55).
 

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Jesus words leading them to believe;

  • that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
  • Jesus had a devil (vs.52).
  • that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
  • that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Jesus words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews, that they couldn’t restrain themselves. They simply couldn’t take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, “ego eimi,” but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

We need to also remember that “I AM” in the Old Testament is a different set of words from different languages to the New Testament instances. It would be like saying that “I am” in English is equating one with God for it is the word used by God in Hebrew. That is simply not true. Many say “I am” in the New Testament just as they say those words today without meaning they are God.

If you were watching Mickey Mouse on the Disney channel and Goofy said to Mickey, “are you Mickey Mouse”, am I to assume then that Mickey Mouse is claiming to be God if he answers, “I am”? Of course not. He is simply identifying himself as Mickey Mouse.

Back to the Old Testament we see that it was YHWH that said “I am that I am”. He was saying that he was the ever exisiting one. So his name was actually YHWH. To equate the common words “I am” as a claim to be YHWH is indeed a big stretch of the imagination.

Here is an example of the words “I am” in everday language/

Q: Are you Peter?
A: I am.

Conclusion: If I am Peter then am I blaspheming when I say I am. I am not saying I am YHWH. I am saying that I am Peter. I am simply answering the question asked of me. This behaviour is very normal and common as you can see. In fact this paragraph alone contains 7 instances of the term ‘I am’. Yet who in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be God?
To say that Jesus claimed to be God because he said “I am” can only be at most, an unsupported and extemely weak opinion. There are no scriptures in the bible that uses this occurrence as a teaching to promote a Trinity Or to prove that Yashua is Yahweh. To hinge the Trinity Doctrine on an assumption is indeed a weak argument to make and wouldn’t get very far in a court of law. To say that we are condemned if we do not believe in a certain vague interpretation is totally unacceptable to all who earnestly seek truth. Remember that we are judged by the measures we judge others, so we shouldn’t be so unreasonable.

If you read the whole Bible without bias, would you come to the conclusion that Jn.8:58 is saying that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity. I really do not think so, therefore it is unfair to condemn someone who doesn’t hold to your opinion if you indeed believe in the Trinity Doctrine and I have to note that there are hundreds of scriptures that show us clearly that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God. These verses are clear teachings. The Trinity Doctrine is based on weak assumptions which come from the mind of Man. I prefer to believe the scriptures, rather than assumptions and imaginations of men.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 20 posts - 181 through 200 (of 255 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #793362
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    So you interpret the unity as sameness?

    Jesus offers a different view.

    You disagree with him?

    #793363
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    There is a disconnect between your claim to be born again and your promotion of the teachings of catholicism.

    #793386
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Hi,Nick and all,

    Nick you said,
    “Hi Andrew,

    Is it promised that all will do greater works?

    Give me a light burden thanks”

    I like your answer and apologize for my little literalist rant.I don’t want to put that burden on you or anybody else.

    I was involved with charismaniacs for too many years.I had that burden,along with much guilt and shame i should’ve never had.It was so much confusion,I left christianity for many years.Not that I didn’t still believe in God,Christ and faith but couldn’t bear to hear any of it anymore.

    Thanks to many factors including this site I can now deal with all of it much better,I do have love,joy,peace and the presence of God more now than ever before as long as I can keep aware of it.

    But I wish all here love,joy and peace no matter how we all disagree.

    #793389
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Bless you.

    The Spirit is the best teacher.

    Less arguments when all tune in to the same source

    #793397
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    But wouldn’t it be great if we could have real faith that would just clear out hospitals and send everyone home healed and whole.The faith teachers dream and prophesy of such things.

    #793492
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi andrew,

    For many being physically or mentally troubled becomes a doorway to finding salvation.

    Folks cry out to God when they are desperate.

     

    Take away all suffering and how would they discover they are under the wrath of God and only have a few years to escape?

     

    #793687
    DavidL
    Participant

    So you interpret the unity as sameness?

    Jesus offers a different view.

    You disagree with him?

    This is what Jesus said – “I and the Father are One.”

    You choose to interpret this Oneness according to your anti-trinity predisposition…

    Yet the verses you use (John 17:3,21) actually confirm the very thing you try and deny..!!

    #793689
    DavidL
    Participant

    There is a disconnect between your claim to be born again and your promotion of the teachings of catholicism.

    If you offer no evidence then I would have to imagine the disconnection is in your own understanding…

    Don’t Catholics teach Jesus died for your sins… and He was born of a virgin – do you disagree with this also just because it is catholic..?

    Concerning being born of the Spirit you offer no personal understanding, just theological concepts..

    You even reject the idea of receiving Christ in a personal sense, as if it were not Scriptural…?

     

    #793699
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Your defence of the church of the world is true loyalty.

    But should you not rather serve Christ Jesus?

    #793711
    DavidL
    Participant

    But should you not rather serve Christ Jesus?

    Good words indeed – but still waiting for any confirmation that you are actually born again, Nick…

     

    #793713
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Some interpret being born again with being physically resurrected and if that’s the case then none has been born again except Jesus who is the “firstborn of the dead”which clearly means resurrected.Or if he was just spiritually resurrected then maybe the rest of us are just”born again”when we die and go to heaven.

    #793715
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    But only if we’ve baptized of course!!

    #793719
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    If you r words in support of the church of the world are evidence then you could never be convinced

    #793720
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Go to heaven?

    #793725
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    This is what Jesus said – “I and the Father are One.”

    I consider the claim that Jesus is claiming he is God in saying as the usual Trinitarian nonsense when they claim words that apply to Jesus mean he is God while when those same words are applied to others they do not interpret them to mean the others are God as well.

    You already know Jesus himself said the Father is his God and yet you choose not to believe him. Since he is your Lord then why don’t you believe him?

    #793744
    Anastas
    Participant

    Yes it is just like how they will interpret “For the Father and I are one” to mean they are one by substance, instead of merely purpose, but then interpret “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me,” to be speaking about oneness in substance in one part and then oneness in purpose in the next. Their interpretation is completely arbitrary even when context says otherwise.

    #794021
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Kerwin why do you claim Jesus as your Lord? what is a lord anyway? if you have an invisible Lord whom you revere and treat as a god,is it wrong to call him a god or God? Paul applied verses from the OT that clearly belong only to Jehovah to Jesus Christ. Maybe Paul needs a little correcting too?

    #794022
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

    God spoke and worked through Jesus.[acts 2.22]

     

     

    #794024
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    We do have to discern what is the truth

    1Cor8

    “..we have one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ..”

    #794025
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    But why is he Lord? and how is he Lord? is he just a natural being like you or I? or is he just another Moses?

    What if I were to say yes I follow Jesus and think he was a good Jewish rabbi who taught what really matters in Judaism and did away with the outward trappings of the Jewish religion which were not needed and actually detrimental to humanity.But his brand of Judaism is now called Christianity.

Viewing 20 posts - 181 through 200 (of 255 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

Create Account