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The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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Glory of God

The Trinity Doctrine is so preposterous that it contradicts the most basic and simple truths in scripture and causes much confusion and unnecessary division.

For example, the Holy Spirit came to Mary instead of Mary’s husband Joseph. Thus is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus, or is the Father? Explain that one with the confusing dogma of the Trinity.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and is not another person, nor an equal partner of a triune God.

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  • April 16, 2015 at 8:39 am#794253
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl.

    Of course you are misguided if you think the Spirit of God is EVER separate from God as another person.

    If you were separate from your spirit you would be dead.

    Jas 2

    April 16, 2015 at 9:42 am#794262
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    Reasoning is basic to our natural understanding, but when it comes to comprehending spiritual realities – it simply falls short.

    There is a reasoning that is based on godless understanding but not all reasoning is godless in nature or Paul would have been sinning even as he reasoned in the marketplace of Athens. Godless reasoning is based on the flesh, aka natural, and so it is according to the the nature of godless men. Seek to be wise enough to discern what is of God and what is not of God.

    That reasoning that is based on godly principles is from God. Paul and Jesus used such reasoning even though they are but human beings.

    Jesus was given more knowledge and authority than Paul.

    April 16, 2015 at 10:15 am#794268
    kerwin
    Participant

    Carmel,

    The definition of space I am using is:

    4
    a : a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction <infinite space and time>
    b : physical space independent of what occupies it —called also absolute space, Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    The definition of space being used is 1a1.

    1
    a (1) : measure in one direction; specifically : one of three coordinates determining a position in space or four coordinates determining a position in space and time (2) : one of a group of properties whose number is necessary and sufficient to determine uniquely each element of a system of usually mathematical entities (as an aggregate of points in real or abstract space) <the surface of a sphere has two dimensions>; also : a parameter or coordinate variable assigned to such a property <the three dimensions of momentum> (3) : the number of elements in a basis of a vector space

    God does not fit definition 1a1 and I have a hard, if not impossible, task describing him as he is not part of creation.

    April 16, 2015 at 10:20 am#794270
    kerwin
    Participant

    Carmel,

    So you do believe that the universe has always existed and then in an instant it started to exspand and is still expanding to this day.

    April 16, 2015 at 11:15 am#794285
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @DavidL

    Bod has a good point above.

    The Trinity Doctrine is wrong and leads to other false assumptions DavidL.

    April 16, 2015 at 11:18 am#794286
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @bodhitharta

    To be fair, you do not believe in the Father because your book says God has no son. Thus to adhere to your book, you have to deny the Father and Son. If there is no Son, there is no Father.

    April 16, 2015 at 11:21 am#794287
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    But you do not adhere to the book.

    HU is not in it is it?

    April 16, 2015 at 11:59 am#794294
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    t8 uses a lot of stolen arguments to bolster his false doctrine…he takes this verse (out of context) because it is the same one Arius used to try and deny the trinity centuries ago..


    @DavidL    , are you aware that the measure you judge is the same that you will be judged by. You say that I steal Arius’s argument.

    Please list exactly the argument I stole from him. Even if you could do that, then the fact that I have never read any of Arius’s writings because they were burned as I understand it, then your accusation is false. You should not bear false witness DavidL. You need to repent of this I believe. And an apology would be the right thing to do here. But if you refuse because of pride, then I beg to you for your own sake to not take that to this hard heart to the grave with you.

    Even if Arius’s writings existed, stealing it is not correct term. Did you steal Jesus or Paul’s teachings on salvation?

    David, you appear to have lost objectivity and are just in this negative frame of mind. Be careful not to accuse people falsely. If you have the truth, then joy should be your strength. Your irritability is the result of you fighting against the precious truth.

    April 16, 2015 at 12:33 pm#794295
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    Islam does not prohibit use of the word Father to refer to God. They also claim God has many sons. They do not except the idea that Jesus was the offspring of God’s body. I do not even think they agree with your idea as it is equivalent of claiming Jesus is the bodily child of God.

    As far as I know, they do not address my teaching that Jesus is the chief son of the Spirit of God.

    Historically, Islam is an early protest against Catholicism.

    April 16, 2015 at 12:51 pm#794296
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @DavidL

    If Jesus is God and the son of God, then by reason of the Trinity Doctrine, the Father who is also God (I agree) must then be the Father of God.

    One God three persons basically says:

    God the Father
    God the Son
    God the Holy Spirit
    &
    The Father of God
    The Son of God
    The Spirit of God.

    Why is the Father not the Father of God if all members are God and co-equal? You cannot explain it can you?

    Clearly the reality is the Father is NOT the Father of God because he is not OF God.

    Instead HE IS THE ONE TRUE GOD.

    If you really believed your doctrine, then you could say from the rooftops that the Father is the Father of God. But you do not because you know deep down this is wrong. The Trinity Doctrine is wrong and leads to other false assumptions DavidL.

    April 16, 2015 at 12:55 pm#794297
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @kerwin

    t8,
    Islam does not prohibit use of the word Father to refer to God. They also claim God has many sons. They do not except the idea that Jesus was the offspring of God’s body. I do not even think they agree with your idea as it is equivalent of claiming Jesus is the bodily child of God.

    Scripture says that the Antichrist spirit denies the Father and the Son. This is the very thing that the Quran teaches.

    You can say bodily or whatever, but they clearly deny that Jesus is the son of God, and by doing so, they deny that God is the Father of Jesus and that Jesus is the son of God.

    Written on the wall of the Dome of the Rock (Al-Aqsa Mosque) and in the Quran is this among other writings, “God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. “.

    Throughout the Quran you see the term “Jesus, son of Mary”, but you do not see “Jesus the son of God” like you do in the Bible.

    April 16, 2015 at 1:04 pm#794298
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    It denies the Father and the Son less than the Trinity as the later accuses God of being tempted by sin.

    The God of Jesus, and his James, cannot be tempted by sin can yours?

    The God of Islam cannot be tempted by sin.

    April 16, 2015 at 1:12 pm#794299
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    Hi BD,

    But you do not adhere to the book.

    HU is not in it is it?

    Allah Hu Akbar

    Look it up in Hebrew or Arabic it is beautiful to understand the blessing

    April 16, 2015 at 1:20 pm#794300
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Blessings from men are of limited value.

    Thy Word is truth

    April 16, 2015 at 1:23 pm#794301
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi t8

    @bodhitharta

    To be fair, you do not believe in the Father because your book says God has no son. Thus to adhere to your book, you have to deny the Father and Son. If there is no Son, there is no Father.

    I believe in God, I believe in Christ, I believe you can call people sons and daughters and children of God but those labels are not literal. If they are why don’t you give the term “son” equal weight with all the tons of people and angels that are called son….so t8 are all those listed as sons of God actually sons of God?

    Christianity is hopelessly confused

    Who is the firstborn of God?

    April 16, 2015 at 1:29 pm#794303
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    No your natural intellect does not align with spiritual understanding.

    It cannot.1Cor 2

     

    The Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God

    April 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm#794304
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Churchianity is total confusion.

    Discern the Body Of Christ

    April 16, 2015 at 1:36 pm#794305
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    This is from another site .

    perhaps it will help.

    “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.”—Colossians 1:15–16

    In his letter to the Colossians, Paul calls Jesus Christ the “firstborn over all creation” (Col. 1:15). How can Christ be both the eternal Creator of all things and yet Himself be the firstborn?

    First, in referring to Christ as the firstborn, Paul has in mind preeminence. This usage is firmly established in the Old Testament. For example, Ephraim is referred to as the Lord’s “firstborn” (Jer. 31:9) even though Manasseh was born first (Gen. 41:51). Likewise, David is appointed the Lord’s “firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth” (Ps. 89:27), despite being the youngest of Jesse’s sons (1 Sam. 16:10‐13). While neither Ephraim nor David was the first one born, they were firstborn in the sense of preeminence or “prime position.”

    April 16, 2015 at 1:38 pm#794306
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Of course Christ here refers to the anointing, which is from the beginning, and only later is this applied to Jesus as Christ Jesus.

    April 16, 2015 at 1:48 pm#794310
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    This is from another site .

    perhaps it will help.

    “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.”—Colossians 1:15–16

    In his letter to the Colossians, Paul calls Jesus Christ the “firstborn over all creation” (Col. 1:15). How can Christ be both the eternal Creator of all things and yet Himself be the firstborn?

    First, in referring to Christ as the firstborn, Paul has in mind preeminence. This usage is firmly established in the Old Testament. For example, Ephraim is referred to as the Lord’s “firstborn” (Jer. 31:9) even though Manasseh was born first (Gen. 41:51). Likewise, David is appointed the Lord’s “firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth” (Ps. 89:27), despite being the youngest of Jesse’s sons (1 Sam. 16:10‐13). While neither Ephraim nor David was the first one born, they were firstborn in the sense of preeminence or “prime position.”

    You do realize this says he is the eternal creator, right” This site believes that Jesus is God…..hopeless confusion indeed and also according to this definition that would simply mean that Christ is preeminent not actually the firstborn

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